# Talentless people riding on a family member's fame. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 3, 2002, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talentless-people-riding-on-a-family-members-fame/112202 "2002-06-03T17:48:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Keith1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/6de8d8/32.png) [@Keith1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keith1)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2023, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talentless-people-riding-on-a-family-members-fame/112202/81 "2023-07-25T20:41:56Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > But if you are born into poverty, you can still get the life of your choosing, it just may take longer, require demonstration of your worth, kicking in doors instead of having them opened for you. There are numerous examples of self made success stories. You make it sound as though those who were born to poor or racialized parents etc. didn’t make their lot in life because they haven’t tried hard enough. That isn’t true. Although many may give up from despair. Statistics show that those children born into upper or upper middle class families are granted overwhelmingly more favorable opportunities. Of course there are exceptions, but on the whole, The American Dream as it once was is now nothing more than a myth. Largely due to lacking social structure & support. The topic of this thread is but one example, focusing on entertainment. Similar can be said for industry, politics . . . A quick example. Probably not a good example but all I can do on short notice 😉 I could walk through any large city and find street buskers/musicians that have more talent in their baby finger than many of those listed in the threads above. But very, very few of them will ever be leapfrogged to fame. ---
**Author:** ![Keith1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/6de8d8/32.png) [@Keith1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keith1)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2023, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talentless-people-riding-on-a-family-members-fame/112202/82 "2023-07-25T20:46:24Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Just to note that this thread was recently resurrected; the OP was originally posted 21 years ago, and that poster hasn’t been seen here in three years. 21 years and not much has changed. Might even be worse. ---
**Author:** ![Author\_Balk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Author\_Balk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Author_Balk)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2023, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talentless-people-riding-on-a-family-members-fame/112202/83 "2023-07-25T21:32:55Z")
> [@Keith1](#): > > 21 years and not much has changed. Might even be worse. I opened the thread not knowing it was 21 years old. When I saw the title the first person I thought of was Kelly Osbourne. Then saw that it was the first person mentioned in the OP. Not much has changed. ---
**Author:** ![Jaycat.again](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat.again/32/11525_2.png) [@Jaycat.again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaycat.again)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2023, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talentless-people-riding-on-a-family-members-fame/112202/84 "2023-07-25T21:45:49Z")
I saw Mickey Mantle Jr. play ball in single A, and he couldn’t hit even at that level. I suppose the only reason he made the team was his dad’s name. [Turns out he had a tough life and died young.](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2000-dec-21-sp-3024-story.html) ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2023, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talentless-people-riding-on-a-family-members-fame/112202/85 "2023-07-25T21:55:50Z")
> [@Keith1](#): > > You make it sound as though those who were born to poor or racialized parents etc. didn’t make their lot in life because they haven’t tried hard enough. That isn’t true. And that’s not what I said. You made it sound as if it was impossible without the silver spoon. That’s the problem with generalities, they are not universal. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2023, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talentless-people-riding-on-a-family-members-fame/112202/86 "2023-07-25T22:26:33Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > > [@RealityChuck](#): > > > > The same Liza Minnelli who has an EGOT? > > Just to note that this thread was recently resurrected; the OP was originally posted 21 years ago, and that poster hasn’t been seen here in three years. When the post was made, she’s already won an Oscar, an Emmy, and two Tonys, plus a BAFTA, and two Golden Globes. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2023, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talentless-people-riding-on-a-family-members-fame/112202/87 "2023-07-26T00:50:30Z")
Mick Schumacher would be talentless if compared to Sons of other F1 drivers. Hill, Villeneuve, Rosberg and Verstappen all have a World Championship under their belts. But I suspect his name got him farther than he would have without it. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2023, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talentless-people-riding-on-a-family-members-fame/112202/88 "2023-07-26T08:55:11Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > But if you are born into poverty, you can still get the life of your choosing, it just may take longer, require demonstration of your worth, kicking in doors instead of having them opened for you. And luck - don’t forget luck. It doesn’t matter how smart, driven and hard working you are, the poorer you are, the more luck you need to succeed. So yeah, there are self-made success stories - people who won the lottery. Being smart and working hard just bought them the ticket. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2023, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talentless-people-riding-on-a-family-members-fame/112202/89 "2023-07-26T09:47:34Z")
> [@Keith1](#): > > Where would Donald T. be if not for his inheritance. Doubtless still a crook, but likely in jail for shoplifting at a Dollarama. There are countless examples of this in the world politics. Take Hunter Biden, for example. ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2023, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talentless-people-riding-on-a-family-members-fame/112202/90 "2023-07-26T10:00:59Z")
I have the perfect movie for this thread: Chad McQueen, Don Swayze, and Mike Norris starring in… [Death Ring!](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106688/?ref_=nm_flmg_t_69_act) ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2023, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talentless-people-riding-on-a-family-members-fame/112202/91 "2023-07-26T10:25:57Z")
A long, long time ago, in a galaxy far away, I was part of a small crew who did light and sound for live shows for Shelly West, daughter of [Dottie West](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dottie_West). I am not a musician, but even I could see she was mediocre at best. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2023, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talentless-people-riding-on-a-family-members-fame/112202/92 "2023-07-26T14:43:07Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > And luck - don’t forget luck. It doesn’t matter how smart, driven and hard working you are, the poorer you are, the more luck you need to succeed. > > So yeah, there are self-made success stories - people who won the lottery. Being smart and working hard just bought them the ticket. I’m going to disagree. I know plenty of people that grew up poor that are part of today’s 1%'rs. They didn’t win the lottery. They didn’t have things handed to them. Did someone take a risk on them, yes. But they got where they are today on their capabilities. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2023, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talentless-people-riding-on-a-family-members-fame/112202/93 "2023-07-26T14:49:38Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > I’m going to disagree. I know plenty of people that grew up poor that are part of today’s 1%'rs. They didn’t win the lottery. They didn’t have things handed to them. Did someone take a risk on them, yes. But they got where they are today on their capabilities. First of all, luck is a factor in everything. Everyone who’s been successful in history has been lucky to one degree or another, from Alexander the Great to Bruce Springsteen. Second of all, good luck also means the absence of bad luck. The poorer you are, the easier random misfortune can ruin your plans. Something as common as a sick parent - if they don’t have insurance, what you earn will be going towards their treatment and not towards your future success. I’m sure that you know people who started from nothing and achieved great success. I’m also sure they know where things could have gone wrong along the way, and how lucky they were they didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2023, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talentless-people-riding-on-a-family-members-fame/112202/94 "2023-07-26T14:50:42Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > I’m going to disagree. I know plenty of people that grew up poor that are part of today’s 1%'rs. They didn’t win the lottery. They didn’t have things handed to them. Did someone take a risk on them, yes. But they got where they are today on their capabilities. Sure, it can and does happen, and I don’t think that anyone here is saying otherwise. But, someone who grew up in poverty, and/or part of a marginalized group, will face greater obstacles to their success than someone who comes from a wealthy and successful family, and starts out the game already on third base. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2023, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talentless-people-riding-on-a-family-members-fame/112202/95 "2023-07-26T15:02:15Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > First of all, luck is a factor in everything. Everyone has a choice. You can leave your circumstances to chance/fate (“luck” as you refer to it) or you can work towards a purposed outcome. The more you work towards that purposed outcome, you lower the impacts of chance has on your results. I had someone tell me that investing in the stock market is the same as going to Vegas and betting on red or black. It’s not. While playing roulette is a game of chance with certain odds, investing in a broad based index fund is not. You have management teams of every company in the index fund, working towards a purposed outcome of generating a profit, not left to chance. Your investment will pay off. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2023, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talentless-people-riding-on-a-family-members-fame/112202/96 "2023-07-26T15:12:50Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Everyone has a choice. You can leave your circumstances to chance/fate (“luck” as you refer to it) or you can work towards a purposed outcome. The more you work towards that purposed outcome, you lower the impacts of chance has on your results. Lower it, yes, but you can never eliminate it, and it’s much larger than you or other “successful” people are willing to entertain. Are you familiar with the concept of survivorship bias? ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2023, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talentless-people-riding-on-a-family-members-fame/112202/97 "2023-07-26T15:17:48Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Lower it, yes, but you can never eliminate it In my world, I refer to it as risk. You are correct that you can’t eliminate it, but you can definitely develop strategies to mitigate it and manage it. And yes you can even use strategies to maximize your exposure to upside risk or luck. You don’t get hit by the luck truck if you’re not in the street. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2023, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talentless-people-riding-on-a-family-members-fame/112202/98 "2023-07-26T16:30:38Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > You don’t get hit by the luck truck if you’re not in the street. While you’re waiting to get hit by that truck, Bill Gates’ mom is talking to the Chairman of IBM about her kid’s fledgling software company. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2023, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talentless-people-riding-on-a-family-members-fame/112202/99 "2023-07-26T17:20:40Z")
The luck truck works both ways - some folks have multiple sick relatives to take care of, or become disabled through no fault of their own, face serious mental illness, or just weren’t gifted with great talent or will power that might be required to overcome a bad draw of the cards. And many folks choose to devote their efforts to their own communities or other positive things that aren’t always compatible with building great wealth. The point is that our system still allows lots and lots of good people to suffer in poverty through no fault of their own. Not everyone, but many of them. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2023, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talentless-people-riding-on-a-family-members-fame/112202/100 "2023-07-26T17:30:47Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Not everyone, but many of them. and not most of them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talentless-people-riding-on-a-family-members-fame/112202.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talentless-people-riding-on-a-family-members-fame/112202.md?page=6)