# Taliban order us to think independently **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 25, 2001, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taliban-order-us-to-think-independently/83810 "2001-09-25T22:57:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2001, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taliban-order-us-to-think-independently/83810/21 "2001-09-26T14:58:18Z")
**Beelzebubba** Upon further reflection, I withdraw my unkinder remarks. I should not have made them in the first place. You are correct in that the gov’t should acknowledge that it is our foreign policy that prompts these peoples hatred. Often, these ‘Our foreign policy makes them hate us.’ statements imply that we should alter our future foreign policy so that they don’t hate us anymore. You did not imply any such thing. We can acknowledge that our foreign policy is the cause of their hatred without budging an inch on what that policy should be. ---
**Author:** ![Misery\_Loves\_Co](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7cd45c/32.png) [@Misery\_Loves\_Co](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misery_Loves_Co)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2001, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taliban-order-us-to-think-independently/83810/22 "2001-09-26T15:41:46Z")
A little thought that keeps creeping in under my radar - I honestly wonder how much of ANY of our policy is of interest to Bin Laden - that is: I have this nagging feeling like both the religious fanaticism and his anti-American stance are less honest motivators than simple megalomania. I have a suspicion that his fanaticism and jihad-related interests are merely vehicles with which to acquire support from other factions. An interviewer of Manson once observed that what was important to Charlie was not that his followers had killed, or who they killed, but that he /inspired them/ to kill. Where this is relevant is that I don’t believe that our policy has makes any difference to the terrorist elements: we’re just a big target. We could be a fascist dictatorship or a religious monarchy and would still be the target of their hatred. Beyond that, I’m in the **zut, Cheesesteak, and Beelzebubba** camp. . . ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2001, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taliban-order-us-to-think-independently/83810/23 "2001-09-26T19:23:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Trion \* > \*\*When I read about this this morning I thought that the Taliban were starting to sound desperate. So far they’ve threatened us, our allies, told us bin Laden is missing, and asked us not to cause more suffering to the Afghanistan people. > > Now they’re appealing to the American people. I can only immagine what’s next: > > **Taliban Appeals to Knights of Columbus** > “Lil’ Help?” says Taliban Leader \*\* Man, these guys sure can weasel! I wonder if DITWD was part of the Taliban… ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2001, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taliban-order-us-to-think-independently/83810/24 "2001-09-26T20:09:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BunnyGirl \* > \*\*Bush: We’ll be bombing Afghanistan tonight. > Taliban: Run! We will do our best to smite you, evil American pig-dog. > > That night: crickets and the sounds of terrified Talibaners. > > Next day: > Bush: Oh, did I say last night? Gee, I meant next Thursday. Sorry, my bad.\*\* “Good night, Taliban. Sleep well. We’ll most likely bomb you in the morning.” ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2001, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taliban-order-us-to-think-independently/83810/25 "2001-09-26T20:15:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cheesesteak \* > **…it is our foreign policy that prompts these peoples hatred.** It is _ **not** _. From another thread I posted to: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shayna \* > Interesting article [here](http://www.spectator.co.uk/article.php3?table=old%C2%A7ion=current&issue=2001-09-22&id=1104), alledging that “the **culture** and **conditions** that create” these terrorists, stems from Saudi Arabia and go all the way back to the 18th century founder of totalitarian Islamism, Ibn Abdul Wahhab (1703–92). > > > [@](#): > > > > From the beginning of Wahhab’s dispensation, in the late 18th century, his cult was associated with the mass murder of all who opposed it. For example, the Wahhabis fell upon the city of Qarbala in 1801 and killed 2,000 ordinary citizens in the streets and markets. > > > [@](#): > > > > Bin Laden is a Wahhabi. So are the suicide bombers in Israel. So are his Egyptian allies, who exulted as they stabbed foreign tourists to death at Luxor not many years ago, bathing in blood up to their elbows and emitting blasphemous cries of ecstasy. So are the Algerian Islamist terrorists whose contribution to the purification of the world consisted of murdering people for such sins as running a movie projector or reading secular newspapers. So are the Taleban-style guerrillas in Kashmir who murder Hindus. > > > [@](#): > > > > \*\*None of this extremism has been inspired by American fumblings in the world, and it has little to do with the tragedies that have beset Israelis and Palestinians. \*\* > > In short, this shit’s been going on for **centuries** and “understanding” _any_ role the U.S. has in the Middle East is completely and utterly fruitless, as they are completely **unrelated**. > > That doesn’t mean that these extremists don’t hate Americans, the U.S., or what we stand for. But WE are NOT the cause of their extremism and no amount of figuring out _why_ they hate us will _ever_, _ever_ change the basic tenets of the version of Islam that they practice. Period. * * * Jeg elsker dig, Thomas ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2001, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taliban-order-us-to-think-independently/83810/26 "2001-09-26T21:07:21Z")
> [@](#): > > In the public addresses that I’ve seen, Bush has never once indicated that US policy may have been a motivation for these attacks. Maybe because he, like many of us, doesn’t give a shit what “motivated” the attacks, a subject already done to death [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=87783). As far as the Taliban go, does anyone else get a sort of surreal “Is this Candid Camera?” feeling when watching them talk? They are so far away from rationality or reasonableness that you can’t even see those things from where they are. Examples: One guy being interviewed on TV, and asked whether it was appropriate to have coopted a soccer stadium built with international funds as an “arena of death” where they publicly execute people – apparently, lots of people. His response, in effect, was that if the international community didn’t want the soccer stadium used as an “arena of death,” it should give them another great big grant to build a REAL arena of death – another facility, to be dedicated to executions. Another guy being interviewed on TV, and asked whether he thinks it’s okay that bin Laden is a terrorist and kills all these people. He gives a “what can you do?” shrug and replies that bin Laden is a terrorist, so terror is what he does, just as if he was a doctor, he would doctor people . . . the clear implication being that you can’t interfere with a man’s chosen profession. A third guy, who when asked about the oppressive way women are treated, reples that if Allah had wanted women to be treated as well men, He would have made them men in the first place. All of these responses are given with a perfectly straight face and without any apparent realization that, as answers, _they make no sense whatsover_. I really think the Taliban would be laughable if they weren’t so dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2001, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taliban-order-us-to-think-independently/83810/27 "2001-09-27T01:12:15Z")
The Taliban and Osama will, I’m sure, understand, when our counterattack occurs, that we were motivated by _their_ foreign policy. I’m also sure that it won’t change their behavior. So why should we consider changing ours? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taliban-order-us-to-think-independently/83810.md?page=1)