# Taliban Stupid and Just Don't Care? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 9, 2012, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taliban-stupid-and-just-dont-care/627715 "2012-07-09T18:25:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taliban-stupid-and-just-dont-care/627715/61 "2012-07-11T03:03:44Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > When the Taliban say they’ll stop polio vaccinations unless the U.S. calls of the drone strikes (which you just said don’t work and are great for the Taliban), everyone believes them. Even the people with polio and the parents of children at risk for polio. Quite possibly yes. Our credibility is pretty much zero there. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taliban-stupid-and-just-dont-care/627715/62 "2012-07-11T03:12:59Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > The Taliban deliberately went out of their way to kill more than 3,000 innocent civilians and provoke a war with the strongest military superpower on Earth (and a former ally). I don’t think being universally hated is something they’re afraid of. WTF? And you’ve been here for _ten years_? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taliban-stupid-and-just-dont-care/627715/63 "2012-07-11T03:28:38Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > I’m not sure why you’re so enthusiastic about technology which’d let the US military accurately kill whichever targets it wants. No doubt, few tears will be shed for taliban commanders, but the US has a more chequered history than that. Not to mention, such technology would probably end up in the hands of people with similar qualms about legislating sexual morality, the Saudis. That’s two different points. First, it’s not enthusiasm, exactly. I think it would be an interesting world where we had to actually sit down at the table and negotiate with these people _long-term_, instead of just waiting on better weaponry. However, that’s unlikely to really happen, because our tech gets better, while theirs stays the same. As far as military tech ending up in the wrong hands, we’ve been burned before, and are more circumspect about it now. You do make a good point, though. I think it is a valid concern, quite possibly. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taliban-stupid-and-just-dont-care/627715/64 "2012-07-11T05:50:45Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Al Qaeda did that. Not the Taliban. They’re different groups. True, a synaptic misfire, but also true: the Taliban sheltered al Qaeda and were allied with them in many different ways before, during, and after 9-11. They were in fact the reason that al Qaeda was in Afghanistan, they applauded 9-11, Mullah Muhammad Omar is a beneficiary and benefactor of bin Laden, and the Taliban did not exactly see the American invasion of Afghanistan as an opportunity to be liberated from al Qaeda and continued to condemn America after the 9-11 accounts when the sympathy of most of the world could not have been more American. So, _al Qaeda_ and _the Taliban_ aided and abetted provoking the greatest military superpower into a war, and this only after more than a decade of increasingly jaw dropping actions (their treatment of women, the destruction of the Bamiyan Buddhas, etc.) that clearly showed they didn’t give a damn about being thought savages. ---
**Author:** ![greenslime1951](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9bcb4/32.png) [@greenslime1951](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greenslime1951)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taliban-stupid-and-just-dont-care/627715/65 "2012-07-11T05:53:43Z")
Just wait until we get the Orbital Death Ray with ultra-high resolution cameras and realtime computer monitoring. We can pay Apple to develop an app that will instantly vaporize anyone who even picks up an AK-47. Problem solved. Assholes with inferior technology eventually become dead assholes. The Taliban, Al-Qaeda, etc. will very soon be the used toilet paper of history. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taliban-stupid-and-just-dont-care/627715/66 "2012-07-13T03:04:03Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > vaccination programs are really a cover for the West sterilizing the locals Finally, something the Taliban and Jenny McCarthy can agree on! ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taliban-stupid-and-just-dont-care/627715/67 "2012-07-13T05:14:32Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > True, a synaptic misfire, but also true: the Taliban sheltered al Qaeda and were allied with them in many different ways before, during, and after 9-11. They were in fact the reason that al Qaeda was in Afghanistan, they applauded 9-11… The question is, 10 years later, how do the Taliban feel about 9/11 NOW? Are they sorry it happened, because it resulted in a temporary loss of power for them, or are they simply opportunists, who were intentionally harming the populace _before_, and are looking forward to doing it unencumbered _again_? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taliban-stupid-and-just-dont-care/627715/68 "2012-07-13T19:31:39Z")
**Sampiro** , all snark aside and with all due respect, you’re basically repeating the narrative that was sold at the time. And this is coming from someone that, at the time, supported the invasion. If interested, watch the following documentary which comes closer to the truth. [The US refuses to negotiate with the Taliban](http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/events/the_us_refuses_to_negotiate_with_the_taliban) Now, I have no love-lost for those thugs – or any others for that matter – but that fact is the US should have never let Afghanistan get to the point of where it is now. Over ten years of futile warring with no end in sight and a lack of clear objectives. All the while stirring the hornet’s nest and increasing – if that’s even possible at this point – the anti-western feeling in the whole region. I think it’s way past due getting out, what with all the talk about the bugbear Iran and their theoretical nuclear capacities, you’re pissing off (and killing) a hell of a lot of Pakistanis who actually _have nuclear warheads_. About [a 100 or so](http://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/Nuclearweaponswhohaswhat/) at last count. Something to think about. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taliban-stupid-and-just-dont-care/627715/69 "2012-07-13T19:44:59Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > The question is, 10 years later, how do the Taliban feel about 9/11 NOW? Are they sorry it happened, because it resulted in a temporary loss of power for them, or are they simply opportunists, who were intentionally harming the populace _before_, and are looking forward to doing it unencumbered _again_? _::::sigh::::_ [**How Dangerous Are the Taliban?**](http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/64932/john-mueller/how-dangerous-are-the-taliban) > [@](#): > > Multiple sources, including Lawrence Wright’s book The Looming Tower, make clear that the Taliban was a reluctant host to al Qaeda in the 1990s and felt betrayed when the terrorist group repeatedly violated agreements to refrain from issuing inflammatory statements and fomenting violence abroad. Then the al Qaeda-sponsored 9/11 attacks – **which the Taliban had nothing to do with** – led to the toppling of the Taliban’s regime. – bolding mine. Tons of additional cites available – do your own research. As to how they feel about AQ _now_: [An Interview: The Taliban’s Long View](http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/11/an-interview-the-talibans-long-view-2/) > [@](#): > > "At least 70 percent of the Taliban are angry at Al Qaeda,” Maulvi said. “Originally, the Taliban were naïve and ignorant of politics and welcomed Al Qaeda into their homes. > > “Part of the problem with Al Qaeda was that the Afghans around Jalalabad are in the habit of welcoming everyone who comes. They do an attan [Pashtun dance] for them. To tell the truth, I was relieved at the death of Osama. Through his policies, he destroyed Afghanistan. If he really believed in jihad he should have gone to Saudi Arabia and done jihad there, rather than wrecking our country." This thread feels like traveling back in time. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taliban-stupid-and-just-dont-care/627715/70 "2012-07-13T19:47:23Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > The question is, 10 years later, how do the Taliban feel about 9/11 NOW? Are they sorry it happened, because it resulted in a temporary loss of power for them, or are they simply opportunists, who were intentionally harming the populace _before_, and are looking forward to doing it unencumbered _again_? My first response is “who gives a fuck how they feel about it?” But to try to answer you’re question- I don’t see the “OR” there. The options are not mutually exclusive, and I figure the answer to all of them is yes. They had no problem with terrorism in the past and they still don’t. I expect they’re glad a bunch of infidels were killed on September 11th because they’re committed many smaller-scale murders since then. I’m sure they are sorry they lost control of their country, and I am positive they’re looking forward to setting things right by reinstituting fanatical religious law and making everybody miserable again at the earliest opportunity. Their alliance with Al Qaeda was based on a couple of things: Bin Laden had money and the Taliban had practically none (Afghanistan had diplomatic relations with almost zero other countries), and they had the same basic ideology even though the Taliban preferred to keep their oppression local and Bin Laden wanted to attack the West. Other than maybe learning that attacking the West is bad for their health, I have a hard time believing anything about the Taliban has changed since then. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taliban-stupid-and-just-dont-care/627715/71 "2012-07-13T20:26:07Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > They had no problem with terrorism in the past and they still don’t. I expect they’re glad a bunch of infidels were killed on September 11th because they’re committed many smaller-scale murders since then. Certainly a lot of them did, much more than is comfortable. But the Taliban are largely a warlord structure, which Al Qaeda never had. So a lot of people join them out of poverty or opportunism in a way that they never did for AQ. I’m sure that many of these people did not approve of the 9/11 attacks, but of course they will not say this because of the fear of their lives. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taliban-stupid-and-just-dont-care/627715/72 "2012-07-13T20:29:06Z")
My heart goes out to them. ---
**Author:** ![scratch\_llll](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@scratch\_llll](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scratch_llll)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2012, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taliban-stupid-and-just-dont-care/627715/73 "2012-07-14T04:51:20Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Now, I have no love-lost for those thugs – or any others for that matter – but that fact is the US should have never let Afghanistan get to the point of where it is now. Over ten years of futile warring with no end in sight and a lack of clear objectives. All the while stirring the hornet’s nest and increasing – if that’s even possible at this point – the anti-western feeling in the whole region. I think it’s way past due getting out, what with all the talk about the bugbear Iran and their theoretical nuclear capacities, you’re pissing off (and killing) a hell of a lot of Pakistanis who actually _have nuclear warheads_. About [a 100 or so](http://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/Nuclearweaponswhohaswhat/) at last count. The people who hated us before hate us still and no matter if we gave them enough money to sink us in debt 100 years and kissed thier asses daily would still hate us because we are infidels. Pakistan takes our money and hides Taliban and Al Queda leaders. Rather than being shamed they were hiding Osama they were angry a doctor did the right thing in exposing him. Raiding parties strike across the border and run hide behind the skirts of Pakistani military. It is a catch 22 damned if you do and damned if you don’t. We give them lots of money and they aid our foes. In the face of nothing you do being right then you take out the worst ones. It would be great if they didn’t have family or friends or a military escort at the time but they twist things so it aids thier propaganda anyway and self loathing westerners are ready to lap it up and lay all blame on the evil US anyway. The drone strikes continue. Nukes? They aren’t idiot enough to have the whole country leveled, just enough to lose our money. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2012, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taliban-stupid-and-just-dont-care/627715/74 "2012-07-14T05:04:43Z")
> [@scratch\_llll](#): > > The people who hated us before hate us still and no matter if we gave them enough money to sink us in debt 100 years and kissed thier asses daily would still hate us because we are infidels. However, thanks to our behavior plenty of people hate us now who didn’t before. > [@scratch\_llll](#): > > Rather than being shamed they were hiding Osama they were angry a doctor did the right thing in exposing him. A doctor who was a fraud and an agent of a foreign country. Americans would be plenty angry too if some doctor performs fraudulent medicine just so he could, say, arrange for Bush to be assassinated. And Bush did a lot more harm than Osama bin Laden. > [@scratch\_llll](#): > > In the face of nothing you do being right then you take out the worst ones. Except we don’t; we kill people pretty much at random so we can pretend we are accomplishing something. We keep claiming that we’ve killed this or that “leader” but are [basically just making it all up](http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/07/taliban-leaders/). ---
**Author:** ![scratch\_llll](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@scratch\_llll](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scratch_llll)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2012, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taliban-stupid-and-just-dont-care/627715/75 "2012-07-14T05:19:40Z")
I think everyone recognizes you have thier propaganda hook sunk so deep in you it’s worthless to reply to you. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2012, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taliban-stupid-and-just-dont-care/627715/76 "2012-07-14T05:37:27Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > - Taliban stupid and just don’t care, hey! > Daylight come and me wan go home.\* _Hey Mister Taliban, tally me banana…_ ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2012, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taliban-stupid-and-just-dont-care/627715/77 "2012-07-14T06:08:58Z")
> [@scratch\_llll](#): > > I think everyone recognizes you have thier propaganda hook sunk so deep in you it’s worthless to reply to you. In other words, I’m right, you have nothing so you’ll vaguely slander me instead of trying to actually argue. There’s someone here who’s swallowed propaganda; but it’s you, not me. ---
**Author:** ![akennett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee59a6/32.png) [@akennett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akennett)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2012, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taliban-stupid-and-just-dont-care/627715/78 "2012-07-14T06:53:36Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > …their days are numbered. …says every failed conqueror in history. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taliban-stupid-and-just-dont-care/627715/79 "2012-07-15T13:14:57Z")
A couple of points: It’s not a womens rights issue, it’s a human rights issue. In cultures where women are being raped and enslaved and murdered, so are boys and men. It’s the (less virulent but still patronistic) misoginy of our culture that misses this point, with it’s “Damsel in Distress” journalism. As far as AQ vs the Talibans’ goals, these are reminiscent of Trotskyist World Revolution vs Stalinist Socialism in One Country. It was our good luck that the Russian, Chinese and Iranian revolutions came along when the US was in “game over” mode after World Wars one and two and Vietnam, respectively. The strategy thus adopted was to set up a _cordon sanitaire_ around the insanity. 9/11 came after Gulf War One and the Cold War, when we were feeling like we could do whatever we wanted. Well, you can stir a pot of alphabet soup, but you can’t make the letters spell what you want. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taliban-stupid-and-just-dont-care/627715/80 "2012-07-16T05:19:11Z")
> [@akennett](#): > > …says every failed conqueror in history. When’s the last time a conqueror had the military tech that we’ll have in 15 or 20 years? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taliban-stupid-and-just-dont-care/627715.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taliban-stupid-and-just-dont-care/627715.md?page=5)