# Talk about a legitimate, timeless genius working in your chosen medium.
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-about-a-legitimate-timeless-genius-working-in-your-chosen-medium/460522
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [August 19, 2008, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-about-a-legitimate-timeless-genius-working-in-your-chosen-medium/460522 "2008-08-19T04:28:37Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Drakkar\_Sauna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drakkar_Sauna)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2008, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-about-a-legitimate-timeless-genius-working-in-your-chosen-medium/460522/1 "2008-08-19T04:28:37Z")
…That is, if one is currently living and is currently doing work. Weird thread title, weirder question, and I’m not even sure that this is the right forum for it, but it fits.
Talk about a legitimate, Einstein/Joyce/Beethoven/etc.-level genius currently working in your chosen field? I don’t mean just someone that you really like or your favorite, but someone whose work is so truly Genius that in time they’ll be revered for their work in the way that the aforementioned are.
My nomination is Grant Morrison, writer of _The Invisibles_ and a million other things, currently writing _Final Crisis_ and _Batman_ for DC comics. I could write a multi-page worship thread as for _why_, but I’ll let the man’s own words speak for me (From [here](http://www.popimage.com/content/grant2004.html) if you want to read it.):
> [@Grant Morrison](#):
>
> Wise up: the more comics imitate movies, the less need movies will have for comics as a source of imaginative material; let’s remember that the movie industry is ONLY NOW learning to simulate the technology and imagination Jack Kirby packed in his pencil 40 years ago. As I’ve been saying to the point of boredom for the last couple of years, our creative community owes it to the future to produce today the insane, logic-shattering, side-splitting day-glo stories which will be turned into all-immersive holographic magic theatre experiences in 40 years time. The comics medium is a very specialized area of the Arts, home to many rare and talented blooms and flowering imaginations and it breaks my heart to see so many of our best and brightest bowing down to the same market pressures which drive lowest-common-denominator blockbuster movies and television cop shows. Let’s see if we can call time on this trend by demanding and creating big, wild comics which stretch our imaginations. Let’s make living breathing, sprawling adventures filled with mind-blowing images of things unseen on Earth. Let’s make artefacts that are not faux-games or movies but something other, something so rare and strange it might as well be a window into another universe because that’s what it is. Let’s see images which come directly from the minds of inspired artists, not from publicity stills. Superhero comics are way too expensive for the mass market and the brand of garish, violent pulp they were once the only source for is available these days in more attractive media. We should get real about this and stop dumbing down, stop stunting our artists’ creativity and stop trying to attract a completely imaginary ‘mainstream audience’. The best way to consolidate comics as a viable medium is to make them LESS like other media, not more. Let our artists go wild on imaginative page layouts. Let our writers find stories in their dreams and not in the newspaper pages, at least for a little while again. Aim for the cool, literate ‘college’ audience, as Stan Lee did to great success in the 60s.
…and, well, he **actually is in fact doing that with his work**.
Your turn.
---
### Author:  [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2008, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-about-a-legitimate-timeless-genius-working-in-your-chosen-medium/460522/2 "2008-08-19T05:46:03Z")
Grant Morrison is certainly a great example.
I’ll offer Gene Wolfe.
> [@](#):
>
> We believe that we invent symbols. The truth is that they invent us; we are their creatures, shaped by their hard, defining edges. When soldiers take their oath they are given a coin, an asimi stamped with the profile of the Autarch. Their acceptance of that coin is their acceptance of the special duties and burdens of military life–they are soldiers from that moment, though they may know nothing of the management of arms. I did not know that then, but it is a profound mistake to believe that we must know of such things to be influenced by them, and in fact to believe so is to believe in the most debased and superstitious kind of magic. The would-be sorcerer alone has faith in the efficacy of pure knowledge; rational people know that things act of themselves or not at all.
The quote is from his book, “Shadow of the Torturer”, a Science Fiction novel that takes place in a far future where the Sun has become red and expanded. The main character is a lapsed member of the torturer’s guild, exiled for showing mercy to a client.
---
### Author:  [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2008, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-about-a-legitimate-timeless-genius-working-in-your-chosen-medium/460522/3 "2008-08-19T06:37:46Z")
Jeff Beck as a guitarist. There was a thread a couple of months ago on great guitar leads where I made my case for Beck being the kind of Einsteinian magical genius the OP seems to be looking for - I don’t know how to locate and link to it using the BlackBerry I am limited to right now. But suffice to say that he is the guitarist that guitarists simply can’t figure out.
---
### Author:  [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2008, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-about-a-legitimate-timeless-genius-working-in-your-chosen-medium/460522/4 "2008-08-19T13:30:49Z")
Well, if my “medium” is library science, you could do worse than to take a look at Sanford Berman, whether you agree with his work or not. He’s something of a radical cataloger (I know, right?) who has argued ceaselessly for natural language in subject headings and accuracy in cataloging language. He’s fought hard against subject heading bias (for example, he’s gotten “Aged” and “Kaffir” removed from the LCSH and “God” turned into “God (Christianity)”.) He’s also gotten subject headings like “Sex Toys” put in there, although LC has made no decisions regarding his proposed “Anal Fisting”. He’s got his own cataloging system going, pretty much, that throws out a lot of the fiddly little punctuation crap and uses these natural language subject headings.
I believe he also did a lot of work with NoveList, which is a database of fiction subject headings. (All of this began with his work as the Hennepin library’s cataloger; he used his own local subject headings and they were incorporated into NoveList.)
At any rate, as much as people don’t like him (and I don’t agree with all of his stuff) I believe future generations of librarians will see the guy as the visionary he really is.
---
### Author:  [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2008, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-about-a-legitimate-timeless-genius-working-in-your-chosen-medium/460522/5 "2008-08-19T14:49:42Z")
Damn it, I came in this thread to say Gene Wolfe. I can’t even read his stuff anymore, I feel so much resentment over how good he is.
---
### Author:  [@unwashed\_brain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unwashed_brain)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2008, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-about-a-legitimate-timeless-genius-working-in-your-chosen-medium/460522/6 "2008-08-19T18:19:54Z")
More Wolfe:
The narrator is resting on a mountanside, gazing at the stars and wondering at the shapes of constellations.
“When these celestial animals burst into view, I am awed by their beauty. But when they become so stongly evident (as they quickly do) that I can no longer dismiss them by an act of will, I begin to feel as frightened of them as I am of falling into that midnight abyss over which they writhe; yet this is not a simple physical and instinctive fear like the other, but rather a sort of philosophical horror at the thought of a cosmos in which rude pictures of beasts and monsters have been painted with flaming suns.”
---
### Author:  [@Drakkar\_Sauna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drakkar_Sauna)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2008, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-about-a-legitimate-timeless-genius-working-in-your-chosen-medium/460522/7 "2008-08-19T20:01:50Z")
[QUOTE=unwashed brain]
More Wolfe:
The narrator is resting on a mountanside, gazing at the stars and wondering at the shapes of constellations.
“When these celestial animals burst into view, I am awed by their beauty. But when they become so stongly evident (as they quickly do) that I can no longer dismiss them by an act of will, I begin to feel as frightened of them as I am of falling into that midnight abyss over which they writhe; yet this is not a simple physical and instinctive fear like the other, but rather a sort of philosophical horror at the thought of a cosmos in which rude pictures of beasts and monsters have been painted with flaming suns.”
[/QUOTE]
Note to self…read Gene Wolfe.
---
### Author:  [@TubaDiva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TubaDiva)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2008, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-about-a-legitimate-timeless-genius-working-in-your-chosen-medium/460522/8 "2008-08-19T20:41:24Z")
Howard Johnson! Probably the greatest jazz tuba player of our time. Or any time, really.
> **[Howard Johnson - HoJoZone/HojoTuba](http://www.hojozone.com)**
>
> One of the top tuba soloists since the early '60s, Howard Johnson is a very versatile player who not only plays tuba and baritone but other reeds and trumpet. He moved to New York in 1963, where he worked with Charles Mingus (1964-1966), Hank...
(Full disclosure: Howard is my teacher/mentor, so it could be argued I’m prejudiced. But I think once you listen to him, you’ll be convinced.)
There’s a ton of great clips on YouTube as well – start with these:
With James Taylor: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjNteHSCCSg](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjNteHSCCSg)
With Terumaso Hino: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtkL2gIpPZs](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtkL2gIpPZs)
With Jack DeJohnette/Special Edition: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANQ8j9qEt90](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANQ8j9qEt90)
With the great Catherine Russell: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV-XAVdsXfg](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV-XAVdsXfg)
Also reference “The Last Waltz,” Saturday Night Live’s original band, Gil Evans, Charles Mingus . . . I could go on and on.
(Howard also plays incredible bari sax as well – very well, in fact. Frequent _downbeat_ jazz poll winner, etc.)
With the Gil Evans Orchestra: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAFYeFLVx7U](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAFYeFLVx7U)
(I am not worthy.)
---
### Author:  [@vison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vison)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2008, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-about-a-legitimate-timeless-genius-working-in-your-chosen-medium/460522/9 "2008-08-19T21:34:41Z")
My chosen medium is the English language and the genius presently at work is Alice Munro.
---
### Author:  [@pentadent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pentadent)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2008, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-about-a-legitimate-timeless-genius-working-in-your-chosen-medium/460522/10 "2008-08-19T21:36:41Z")
[QUOTE=Drakkar Sauna]
Note to self…read Gene Wolfe.
[/QUOTE]
No kidding - I’m searching library catalog right now. . . good, plenty of results. Off I go. Beautiful prose.
---
### Author:  [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2008, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-about-a-legitimate-timeless-genius-working-in-your-chosen-medium/460522/11 "2008-08-20T01:49:37Z")
For those seeking to discover Gene Wolfe. If you want to dive right in go for “The Book of the New Sun”, or “The Book of the Long Sun”. If you want something that is stand alone to get a taste for what Wolfe is like, get yourself, “Pirate Freedom”. A great airplane novel but with lots of depth.
Oh yeah, Gene Wolfe also invented the Pringles oven.
---
### Author:  [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2008, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-about-a-legitimate-timeless-genius-working-in-your-chosen-medium/460522/12 "2008-08-20T02:05:47Z")
[QUOTE=Zsofia]
Well, if my “medium” is library science, you could do worse than to take a look at Sanford Berman . . . \ . . .
At any rate, as much as people don’t like him (and I don’t agree with all of his stuff) I believe future generations of librarians will see the guy as the visionary he really is.
[/QUOTE]
Fellow librarian here. A friend of mine who was going to Simmons College invited me to come see Berman a few years ago when he spoke there.
I’d agree with you about the future generations of librarians seeing him for what he is, assuming that by “visionary” you meant “total head case.” I’m sorry, but the guy just kind of ranted and raved, pulling uncited cases and examples out of his ass for the whole time he was there. It’s one thing to listen to the voices in your head. It’s another thing to cite them while trying to prove your point.
For real, soon-to-be-timeless geniuses in library science, I’d nominate the people at [Maya](http://www.maya.com/) for developing the concept and practice of information commons. \*They’re \* the ones who are going to revolutionize library science, not Sanford.
---
### Author:  [@pentadent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pentadent)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2008, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-about-a-legitimate-timeless-genius-working-in-your-chosen-medium/460522/13 "2008-08-20T02:28:38Z")
[QUOTE=mswas]
For those seeking to discover Gene Wolfe. If you want to dive right in go for “The Book of the New Sun”, or “The Book of the Long Sun”. If you want something that is stand alone to get a taste for what Wolfe is like, get yourself, “Pirate Freedom”. A great airplane novel but with lots of depth.
Oh yeah, Gene Wolfe also invented the Pringles oven.
[/QUOTE]
ok - I checked out “Pirate Freedom” and the first two books of “The New Sun”. Question - I see the “The Book of the Long Sun” and The Book of the Short Sun." Are these “Sun” books to be read in a certain order?
---
### Author:  [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2008, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-about-a-legitimate-timeless-genius-working-in-your-chosen-medium/460522/14 "2008-08-20T02:36:29Z")
[QUOTE=TubaDiva]
Howard Johnson! Probably the greatest jazz tuba player of our time. Or any time, really.
> **[Howard Johnson - HoJoZone/HojoTuba](http://www.hojozone.com)**
>
> One of the top tuba soloists since the early '60s, Howard Johnson is a very versatile player who not only plays tuba and baritone but other reeds and trumpet. He moved to New York in 1963, where he worked with Charles Mingus (1964-1966), Hank...
(Full disclosure: Howard is my teacher/mentor, so it could be argued I’m prejudiced. But I think once you listen to him, you’ll be convinced.)
)
[/QUOTE]
I am so envious. I don’t play the tuba, but Howard Johnson is just plain amazing.
I’d list Samuel L. Delany. Not only is Chip a great writer, but he also has the ability to throw off brilliant insights without the slightest sign of effort.
---
### Author:  [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2008, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-about-a-legitimate-timeless-genius-working-in-your-chosen-medium/460522/15 "2008-08-20T02:48:42Z")
[QUOTE=Linty Fresh]
Fellow librarian here. A friend of mine who was going to Simmons College invited me to come see Berman a few years ago when he spoke there.
I’d agree with you about the future generations of librarians seeing him for what he is, assuming that by “visionary” you meant “total head case.” I’m sorry, but the guy just kind of ranted and raved, pulling uncited cases and examples out of his ass for the whole time he was there. It’s one thing to listen to the voices in your head. It’s another thing to cite them while trying to prove your point.
For real, soon-to-be-timeless geniuses in library science, I’d nominate the people at [Maya](http://www.maya.com/) for developing the concept and practice of information commons. \*They’re \* the ones who are going to revolutionize library science, not Sanford.
[/QUOTE]
Oh, I didn’t say he wasn’t nucking futz. But controlled vocabularies and subject access are IMHO our greatest professional tools (and quite arguably the biggest thing we’ve got over Google) and when we hamstring ourselves in our most important efforts (Cookery, anyone?) we only hurt ourselves. In LC, there are no tombstones. There are no gravestones. There are only Sepulchral Monuments (May Subd. Geog.)
---
### Author:  [@WarmNPrickly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WarmNPrickly)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2008, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-about-a-legitimate-timeless-genius-working-in-your-chosen-medium/460522/16 "2008-08-20T03:19:05Z")
Of course this is cafe society so I’m guessing then that Shu Kobayashi is not what you are looking for. Nevertheless, in the field of chemistry, he is one of the first to truly demonstrate that water could be used as a solvent for some very unexpected chemistry. The thing is, that using water as a solvent, has had some very unexpected results. I don’t know if he is Nobel Prize material, but is definitely in contention.
---
### Author:  [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2008, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-about-a-legitimate-timeless-genius-working-in-your-chosen-medium/460522/17 "2008-08-20T03:24:07Z")
Well, there’s Ansel Adams, I doubt I have to explain why.
---
### Author:  [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2008, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-about-a-legitimate-timeless-genius-working-in-your-chosen-medium/460522/18 "2008-08-20T04:16:55Z")
In law - Richard Posner. Seventh Circuit judge, law professor, incredibly prolific writer. Essentially invented the modern field of “law and economics”. Probably the most influential jurist in the United States - more so, even, than any Supreme Court justice.
---
### Author:  [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2008, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-about-a-legitimate-timeless-genius-working-in-your-chosen-medium/460522/19 "2008-08-20T04:22:01Z")
[QUOTE=pentadent]
ok - I checked out “Pirate Freedom” and the first two books of “The New Sun”. Question - I see the “The Book of the Long Sun” and The Book of the Short Sun." Are these “Sun” books to be read in a certain order?
[/QUOTE]
Long Sun and then I believe Short Sun. The Book of the New Sun can be read independently. They all work within the same cosmology but at vastly different times. I think Long Sun and Short Sun are closer together and should be read in that order.
---
### Author:  [@Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Plastic_Ninja)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2008, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-about-a-legitimate-timeless-genius-working-in-your-chosen-medium/460522/20 "2008-08-20T05:10:49Z")
That’ll be Sid Meier for $1000, Alex. I can’t think of a crappy game he’s made (though I never did get SimEarth to run on my computer). His games have helped create the notion of a mainstream simulation, dragging more addicts into the computer gaming world.
For sheer whacked-out brilliant insanity, you can’t beat Richard Garriott (though I think his best work is behind him). Still, that’s the guy I want to be when I grow up. He’s everything I ever wanted to be: he’s a video game designer, a swashbuckler (seriously, he’s pretty good with a rapier), world traveler, and a friggin’ astronaut.
Though I’m considering changing my chosen medium to writing, where you can’t beat that… ooh, who’s that British guy everyone’s always going on about who writes those fantasy novels? His name’s on the ptip of my ptongue… 😃
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-about-a-legitimate-timeless-genius-working-in-your-chosen-medium/460522.md?page=2)