# Talk me into getting an SUV over a minivan **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 10, 2015, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-me-into-getting-an-suv-over-a-minivan/727482 "2015-08-10T20:51:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![raspberry\_hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@raspberry\_hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raspberry_hunter)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-me-into-getting-an-suv-over-a-minivan/727482/41 "2015-08-11T18:10:26Z")
Man, you guys are not doing a good job at all convincing me we should get an SUV! 🙂 (Thanks for putting up the good fight, **Shagnasty**!) It’s a very good point about the increased storage room and how if we’re going camping the storage space is a Big Deal, especially if we’re going to be lugging a bunch of baby stuff around too. I don’t _think_ my husband wants an SUV to be macho and cool. He’s not that kind of guy. He’s pretty secure in his manliness, as far as I can tell. But I do think he has a strong perception, probably left over from our childhoods, that a minivan isn’t suitable to do anything outside of suburban neighborhoods (which, honestly, the minivan my parents owned probably wasn’t). ---
**Author:** ![Caffeine.addict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@Caffeine.addict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caffeine.addict)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-me-into-getting-an-suv-over-a-minivan/727482/42 "2015-08-11T18:12:32Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Hm. The old XC70 had available third row seating. Shame. Wagons have been replaced by minivans, SUVs and crossovers because buyers are stupid. If you have five kids, sure, get a minivan. If you’re the OP and there are only four of you, occasional third row seating is exactly what you need; compromising _everything else_ about your vehicle to get that extra seating is idiotic. Most people aren’t really enthusiasts. The largest volume sellers have always been bland middle of the road vehicles. Is a minivan or a crossover any less exciting than a Toyota Camry, or a Ford Taurus to go back a few years? And sport wagons were a distinct minority, remember Chevy Caprice Wagons, Buick Roadmaster Wagons, and the Ford equivalent? They were always dull cars to drive. Infant seats and toddler seats have gotten enormous. I have an 18 month old and his car seat is amazingly big. It is much larger than the one his almost seven year old brother had. The damn thing takes up more than a third of the back seat. And kids have to ride in a booster seat in Virginia until they are eight. ---
**Author:** ![raspberry\_hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@raspberry\_hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raspberry_hunter)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-me-into-getting-an-suv-over-a-minivan/727482/43 "2015-08-11T18:12:52Z")
**RememberMe** , this was a very useful post for me. > [@RememberMe](#): > > Not really sure how that issue is only limited to mini-vans. My SUV can get preety nasty in between deep cleanings, resembling what you might consider “the nastiest preschool holding cell”. Ugh. This is something we will have to watch out for; Daughter and I have a bad habit of letting junk accumulate in the car. > [@](#): > > OP-Just get the damn van. I wish I did instead of my 2013 Pathfinder. I love the Pathfinder, but drool at nearly every mini-van I see. The usable 3rd-row, extra storage room, increased gas mileage, better resale, better drive, easier access, etc. As soon as I financially able to do so, the SUV is going away and I am getting an Odyssey or Sienna. BTW, we go camping frequently, and I have never had the need for 4WD or higher ground clearance, but I am ALWAYS wishing I had extra room. This is really a good point, thanks! ---
**Author:** ![raspberry\_hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@raspberry\_hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raspberry_hunter)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-me-into-getting-an-suv-over-a-minivan/727482/44 "2015-08-11T18:22:10Z")
Oh, and also thank you to everyone who mentioned the idea to rent an SUV if we think we’ll need the clearance. That sounds very sensible! > [@Snnipe\_70E](#): > > And lastly everyone knows “Happy wife, Happy life. Unhappy wife, unhappy life!” Hee. But, I mean, it’s also true that an (un)happy husband leads to an (un)happy life. I want us both to be happy! There are only four of us, but it’s conceivable we may have to do carpools, say, once a week or so, that involve seating five people in the car. Four of them in car seats, bleah, which means (as I see **Caffeine.addict** has pointed out) they really take up more seating than that (two car seats effectively take up all three seats in our sedan). We’ll see what he thinks of all this
 ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-me-into-getting-an-suv-over-a-minivan/727482/45 "2015-08-11T18:42:01Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Hm. The old XC70 had available third row seating. Shame. Wagons have been replaced by minivans, SUVs and crossovers because buyers are stupid. If you have five kids, sure, get a minivan. If you’re the OP and there are only four of you, occasional third row seating is exactly what you need; compromising _everything else_ about your vehicle to get that extra seating is idiotic. Huh, I grew up one of four kids and we had various station wagons with “way back” seats and minivans. I can’t really think of any way that the minivans were not superior to the wagons as far as comfort, hauling, and versatility. Maybe the vans got a bit worse gas mileage. If the OP is joining the school carpool that extra row is going to be used on a regular basis. The third row in a minivan is easier to access and will be more roomy when it occasionally gets used by adults than the third row on all but the largest SUVs. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-me-into-getting-an-suv-over-a-minivan/727482/46 "2015-08-11T18:46:46Z")
> [@raspberry\_hunter](#): > > Man, you guys are not doing a good job at all convincing me we should get an SUV! 🙂 (Thanks for putting up the good fight, **Shagnasty**!) I was gonna say, that tactic isn’t gonna work here. > [@](#): > > It’s a very good point about the increased storage room and how if we’re going camping the storage space is a Big Deal, especially if we’re going to be lugging a bunch of baby stuff around too. Also, a second kid doubles the total space you need for gear when you go camping. Not sure why; you’d think it’s just be another backpack full of clothes, a little bit more food, and another sleeping bag, but nope! God forbid you have a 3rd kid; you’d have to buy a full-size van, and they don’t make Econolines any more. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-me-into-getting-an-suv-over-a-minivan/727482/47 "2015-08-11T18:49:51Z")
Have you considered the Subaru outback? It is reliable, gets good MPG, and sits low- despite having a lot of room. Very safe, too. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-me-into-getting-an-suv-over-a-minivan/727482/48 "2015-08-11T19:02:32Z")
> [@Caffeine.addict](#): > > Most people aren’t really enthusiasts. The largest volume sellers have always been bland middle of the road vehicles. Is a minivan or a crossover any less exciting than a Toyota Camry, or a Ford Taurus to go back a few years? And sport wagons were a distinct minority, remember Chevy Caprice Wagons, Buick Roadmaster Wagons, and the Ford equivalent? They were always dull cars to drive. > [@SmellMyWort](#): > > Huh, I grew up one of four kids and we had various station wagons with “way back” seats and minivans. I can’t really think of any way that the minivans were not superior to the wagons as far as comfort, hauling, and versatility. Maybe the vans got a bit worse gas mileage. Well, comparing 1970s-1980s vehicles with modern vehicles is not exactly apples-to-apples. And if you were riding in wagons with three-row seating in those days they were probably American, and it was the worst period in history for US cars. Station wagons are lighter and less top-heavy than minivans (or SUVs, for that matter). That means they are faster, brake better, are more fuel efficient, and ride better. Caffeine.addict, I take your point about enthusiasts. But even the most “this is for going from A to B” person in the world can tell the difference. ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-me-into-getting-an-suv-over-a-minivan/727482/49 "2015-08-11T19:38:23Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > We have a Honda Odyssey minivan and my wife and I both love it. The sliding doors, as mentioned by others, are awesome when you’re relying on your 5 year old to open his own door without hitting anything. Actually ours has automatic doors, but that is not standard on all trim levels. > > And if you need to haul a serious load of stuff, you can fit more in it than in a big SUV when you fold down the 3rd row and remove the 2nd row. Wanted to share this excerpt from Kim Stanley Robinson’s 2005 novel [Fifty Degrees Below](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifty_Degrees_Below) in which one of the scientists at the National Science Foundation decides to become homeless and goes car shopping
 > [@](#): > > Back at NSF he went into the basement to his Honda. > > A great little car. But now it did not serve the purpose. He drove west on Wilson for a long time, until he came to the Honda/Ford/Lexus dealer where he had leased this car a year before. In this one aspect of the fiasco that was remaining in D.C., his timing was good; he needed to re-up, and the eager salesman handling him was happy to hear that this time he wanted to lease an **Odyssey** van. One of the best vans on the road, as the man told him as they walked out to view one. Also one of the smallest, Frank didn’t say. > > Dull silver, the most anonymous color around, like a cloak of invisibility. Rear seat removal, yes; therefore room in back for his single mattress, now in storage. Tinted windows all around the back, creating a pretty high degree of privacy. It was almost as good as the VW van he had lived in for a couple of Yosemite summers, parked in the Camp Four parking lot enjoying the stove and refrigerator and pop-top in his tiny motor home. Culturally the notion of small vehicle as home had crashed since then, having been based on a beat/hippie idea of frugality that had lost out to the usual American excess, to the point of being made illegal by a Congress bought by the auto industry. No stoves allowed in little vans, of course not! Had to house them in giant RVs. > > But this Odyssey would serve the purpose. Frank skimmed the lease terms, signed the forms. He saw that he might need to rent a post office box. But maybe the NSF address would do. > > Walking back out to take possession of his new bedroom, he and the salesman passed a line of parked SUVs—tall fat station wagons, in effect, called Expedition or Explorer, absurdities for the generations to come to shake their heads at in the way they once marveled at the finned cars of the fifties. “Do people still buy these?” Frank asked despite himself. > > “Sure, what do you mean? Although now you mention it, there is some surplus here at the end of the year.” It was May. “Long story short, gas is getting too expensive. I drive one of these,” tapping a Lincoln Navigator. “They’re great. They’ve got a couple of TVs in the back.” > > But they’re stupid, Frank didn’t say. In prisoner’s dilemma terms, they were always-defect. They were America saying Fuck Off to the rest of the world. Deliberate waste, in a kind of ritual desecration. Not just denial but defiance, a GötterdĂ€mmerung gesture that said: If we’re going down we’re going to take the whole world with us. And the roads were full of them. And the Gulf Stream had stopped. > > “Amazing,” Frank said. So long story short, if you plan on being homeless, a van -specifically the Honda Odyssey- is the obvious choice. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-me-into-getting-an-suv-over-a-minivan/727482/50 "2015-08-11T19:47:15Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Have you considered the Subaru outback? It is reliable, gets good MPG, and sits low- despite having a lot of room. Very safe, too. I love my Outback, I take it skiing, camping, biking, kayaking, etc, but it has nothing compared to the space in a mini-van, especially if you’re putting more than 2 people in it. ---
**Author:** ![Caffeine.addict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@Caffeine.addict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caffeine.addict)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-me-into-getting-an-suv-over-a-minivan/727482/51 "2015-08-11T20:32:31Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, comparing 1970s-1980s vehicles with modern vehicles is not exactly apples-to-apples. And if you were riding in wagons with three-row seating in those days they were probably American, and it was the worst period in history for US cars. > > Station wagons are lighter and less top-heavy than minivans (or SUVs, for that matter). That means they are faster, brake better, are more fuel efficient, and ride better. > > Caffeine.addict, I take your point about enthusiasts. But even the most “this is for going from A to B” person in the world can tell the difference. The cool wagons were always a minority, and hopefully they will survive. However, the wagons that were killed off were the people and kid haulers that were enormous, beasts with poor acceleration, handling, and fuel economy. Personally, I wish that the Volvo V70 had worked for us. They may notice the difference, but I don’t think that they care. Someone is buying all of those crossovers to the point that there is a [decline](http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2015/07/chart-day-month-month-midsize-cars-posting-declining-u-s-sales/) in sales for mid size cars. ---
**Author:** ![raspberry\_hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@raspberry\_hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raspberry_hunter)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-me-into-getting-an-suv-over-a-minivan/727482/52 "2015-08-11T20:57:50Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Have you considered the Subaru outback? It is reliable, gets good MPG, and sits low- despite having a lot of room. Very safe, too. I have not. It looks great – except that [Edmunds.com](http://Edmunds.com) says it seats 5? I was hoping for something that seats 7. Did I get this incorrect? ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-me-into-getting-an-suv-over-a-minivan/727482/53 "2015-08-11T21:00:44Z")
> [@raspberry\_hunter](#): > > I have not. It looks great – except that [Edmunds.com](http://Edmunds.com) says it seats 5? I was hoping for something that seats 7. Did I get this incorrect? No, you’re right. The only Subaru that had available 3rd row seats was the now-defunct Tribeca and those were appallingly small even by the standards of small SUV 3rd row seats. ETA: Although Subaru does supposedly have a new 7-passenger SUV in the works in the next year or two so if this is going to be a long shopping process that might be worth looking out for. ---
**Author:** ![raspberry\_hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@raspberry\_hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raspberry_hunter)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-me-into-getting-an-suv-over-a-minivan/727482/54 "2015-08-11T21:04:36Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > We have a Honda Odyssey minivan and my wife and I both love it. The sliding doors, as mentioned by others, are awesome when you’re relying on your 5 year old to open his own door without hitting anything. Actually ours has automatic doors, but that is not standard on all trim levels. Yeah, if we get a minivan we are seriously going for the automatic doors. I would have _loved_ to have those when Daughter was three and daily getting super frustrated with opening and closing the heavy (to her) car doors. ---
**Author:** ![mistymage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mistymage/32/459_2.png) [@mistymage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mistymage)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-me-into-getting-an-suv-over-a-minivan/727482/55 "2015-08-11T21:21:18Z")
We have a Suburban and had a mini-van for about 6 months. The Suburban is used for hauling the camper or boat, pulling people out of ditches and for the XMas trip to the in-laws (to have room to haul presents). Plus the occasional towing the pick-up box trailer of tree trimmings. The mini-van we sold pretty quickly. I did not like how low it sat compared to my conversion vans yet was a bit taller than any of our sedans. It also had car side mirrors vs nice big truck ones. And I really didn’t notice it having much room for hauling stuff. Neither of them allow(ed) for easy access to the third row for a fat older woman
 unlike the conversion vans. The only downside to the conversion vans is that they seat 7 people vs 8. But back when I had 2 kids in carseats the passenger captain’s chairs were much easier to get kids in and out of than any other vehicle we have owned (which included a station wagon). Plus if you laid the back seat down and took out the second row chairs you could haul a king sized bed with no problem. I’m going to miss Brown Bessie
 as she is getting trundled off to that big scrapheap in the sky this fall. After being stripped for anything useful to keep the Red Baron still chugging on. When he dies I will probably just get a car to drive since the need for hauling 3 kids around will be gone (the youngest is 14 so he’ll be wanting to drive himself places soon enough). ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-me-into-getting-an-suv-over-a-minivan/727482/56 "2015-08-11T22:39:44Z")
I had a minivan until I stopped driving my kids around and then I got a crossover. What the minivan did better than the crossover : - seat 7 with room for cargo. And even though there are only four, I often needed to seat more than four people - carpools to my son’s baseball games, taking friends or cousins along on outings, etc. When the third seat is up in the crossover , it still seats only six and has no cargo space. And even small adults can’t fit comfortably in the third row of my crossover, but the third row in my minivan had just as much space as the second. - transport sheetrock, IKEA furniture ,etc. Crossover is too small to fit that stuff easily. Sometimes I end up sliding a box between the seat and the door or between the driver and the passenger. What the crossover does better than the minivan: - It’s not a minivan. - It’s smaller and therefore easier to park ---
**Author:** ![ReticulatingSplines](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@ReticulatingSplines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ReticulatingSplines)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-me-into-getting-an-suv-over-a-minivan/727482/57 "2015-08-11T23:10:07Z")
Times have changed; all the people wanting to avoid looking lame all bought SUVs, so they are now lame. When I think of the stereotypical “soccer mom” today, I imagine her driving an enormous SUV. And a crossover is pretty much just a station wagon with a lift kit. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-me-into-getting-an-suv-over-a-minivan/727482/58 "2015-08-11T23:41:49Z")
> [@ReticulatingSplines](#): > > Times have changed; all the people wanting to avoid looking lame all bought SUVs, so they are now lame. When I think of the stereotypical “soccer mom” today, I imagine her driving an enormous SUV. And a crossover is pretty much just a station wagon with a lift kit. That’s the way I always heard it. SUV = soccer mom. To be fair, I’m on my third Honda Odyssey and it can hold more than my son’s truck can. Although his truck has a back seat, so the bed’s shorter. If you’re going camping, the van is better. If you get to the site and it’s pouring, you can sleep in the van. ---
**Author:** ![kiz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7feea3/32.png) [@kiz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kiz)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-me-into-getting-an-suv-over-a-minivan/727482/59 "2015-08-11T23:57:20Z")
Slight hijack for a second: Are all minivans FWD or do some of them have AWD? OP, I think SUV vs. minivan would also depend on where you live. I’m drawn to SUV’s simply that’s what I’ve had for the past 12 years and because of where I live – FWD vehicles are no match for snow and ice. Minivans don’t have the clearance a SUV has. ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-me-into-getting-an-suv-over-a-minivan/727482/60 "2015-08-12T00:00:01Z")
> [@kiz](#): > > Slight hijack for a second: Are all minivans FWD or do some of them have AWD? > > OP, I think SUV vs. minivan would also depend on where you live. I’m drawn to SUV’s simply that’s what I’ve had for the past 12 years and because of where I live – FWD vehicles are no match for snow and ice. Minivans don’t have the clearance a SUV has. Depends. Many vans can be ordered with AWD. Also your last point is not necessarily accurate. The Toyota Sienna minivan for instance has higher ground clearance than Toyota’s small SUV, the RAV4. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-me-into-getting-an-suv-over-a-minivan/727482.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-me-into-getting-an-suv-over-a-minivan/727482.md?page=4)