# Talk me out of getting a motorcycle. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 11, 2013, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-me-out-of-getting-a-motorcycle/660678 "2013-06-11T00:05:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Doggo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/87869e/32.png) [@Doggo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doggo)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-me-out-of-getting-a-motorcycle/660678/61 "2013-06-17T04:28:40Z")
> [@Infovore](#): > > That’s not _completely_ true. One of our bikes is a Yamaha T-Max 500, which is a maxi scooter (similar models include the Honda Silverwing and the Suzuki Burgman). I’ve never had any problem with potholes, because the wheels are bigger than your usual scooter wheel (though still not as big as a motorcycle wheel, granted). Big scooters are a blast to ride–they’re as fast as a regular motorcycle, more comfortable, and you don’t have to worry about shifting. They also have a bit of storage space, which makes them good for commuting. > > As for riding–when I ride I assume I’m in a video game. Everything on the road is actively out to get me, and it’s my job to pay attention to it and anticipate any stupid thing somebody might do. Passing a guy? He’s gonna not see me and move into my lane. Passing parked cars? One of 'em’s gonna pull out without looking, or open his door. City streets? Oblivious pedestrians darting every which way. > > Sure, it doesn’t often happen. But it’s always on my mind. I still remember my old MSF instructor many years ago teaching us SIPDE: Search, Identify, Predict, Decide and Execute. > > Oh, and get good gear. Don’t be tempted to ride in shorts and short sleeves, no matter how hot it is. You should go to Thailand then. Millions of people ride bikes in t shirt, shorts, flip flops and no helmets. Hundreds if not thousands die every year, often because they are drunk. It’s not unusual to see 5 kids on a bike driven by a 10 year old. It’s not unusual to see families of 5 and a dog on a small Honda wave. I’ve even seen women holding new babies with one arm as they drive, people holding umbrellas while they drive one handed, and using a mobile while riding is so common that it is normal. Seeing toddlers standing on the frame in front of the driver and peering over the handlebars is unremarkable. I was a bit astounded the first time I saw a dog standing behind the driver with its front paws on the driver’s shoulders. Seen a few like that since. Motorcycle taxis are used to combat the dreadful traffic jams in Bangkok, and it’s not strange to see an attractive woman sitting sidesaddle behind the driver, one shoe dangling off her foot and doing her makeup as they weave between the stationary cars. Westerners have to be careful using them though, as they pass so close to the cars that we risk losing our knees, being much larger than the average Thai. What does get me though, are the number of tourists that come to Thailand having never ridden a bike before, that happily rent one and ride about shirtless and wearing flip flops. They are easy to spot, being much bandaged on the legs and torso as they limp about. Usually don’t even have insurance. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-me-out-of-getting-a-motorcycle/660678/62 "2013-06-17T08:07:30Z")
> [@Doggo](#): > > You should go to Thailand then. Millions of people ride bikes in t shirt, shorts, flip flops and no helmets. Hundreds if not thousands die every year, often because they are drunk. I’m not a gear-Nazi myself - but Chicago is **bad.** We’ve got no helmet laws, you don’t need signals to be legal, so lots of riders here seem just plain suicidal. I really don’t get the people riding shirtless - 50mph and up is cold even when it’s 70\* out. ---
**Author:** ![turtlescanfly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/65b543/32.png) [@turtlescanfly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/turtlescanfly)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-me-out-of-getting-a-motorcycle/660678/63 "2013-06-18T00:10:09Z")
Motorcycles are like cigarettes… its something you enjoy, but they significantly increase your risk of dying and they don’t make you look as cool as you think they’ll make you look. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-me-out-of-getting-a-motorcycle/660678/64 "2013-06-18T01:14:38Z")
> [@turtlescanfly](#): > > Motorcycles are like cigarettes… its something you enjoy, but **they significantly increase your risk of dying** and they don’t make you look as cool as you think they’ll make you look. Rephrase, perhaps? We’re all going to die, whether we ride or not. I’d also disagree with the comparison to cigarettes, as that will have delitrious health effects, period, whether or not they kill you. Motorcycling skews your probabilities somewhat (though stats-quoters ignore there are different types of riding), but doesn’t negatively impact your quality of life. ---
**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-me-out-of-getting-a-motorcycle/660678/65 "2013-06-18T02:16:17Z")
> [@turtlescanfly](#): > > . . . they don’t make you look as cool as you think they’ll make you look. I’m not sure most people ride them just to look cool. It takes a little more skill than just wearing the latest style. Looking cool is the added benefit of good riding. 🆒 Heh. ---
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-me-out-of-getting-a-motorcycle/660678/66 "2013-06-18T02:42:22Z")
> [@flatlined](#): > > Be constantly aware that once you throw your leg over the saddle, you become invisible. This sounds really cool until you forget about it and start to assume that people in cars and trucks can see you. Then they tend to assume that they can drive through you. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![flatlined](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb9ed0/32.png) [@flatlined](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flatlined)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-me-out-of-getting-a-motorcycle/660678/67 "2013-06-18T02:56:41Z")
> [@deltasigma](#): > > This sounds really cool until you forget about it and start to assume that people in cars and trucks can see you. Then they tend to assume that they can drive through you. ☹ Boy, aint that the truth! Which is why you should never, ever forget about it. In my world, guns are all loaded and motorcycles are always invisible. ---
**Author:** ![Scubaqueen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c0e974/32.png) [@Scubaqueen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scubaqueen)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-me-out-of-getting-a-motorcycle/660678/68 "2013-06-18T18:43:51Z")
> [@Rowanchilde](#): > > Ask yourself: Am I healthy enough to be an organ donar? This. The Divemaster’s brother is a highly-respected neurosurgeon who is more than a little famous in medical community circles nation-wide. He calls them ‘donorcycles.’ :eek: ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-me-out-of-getting-a-motorcycle/660678/69 "2013-06-18T23:18:21Z")
> [@Scubaqueen](#): > > This. > > The Divemaster’s brother is a highly-respected neurosurgeon who is more than a little famous in medical community circles nation-wide. > > He calls them ‘donorcycles.’ :eek: _Everyone_ in medicine does and they all think no one’s heard it before (yes, some passerby broke that one out today as I was getting on mine). After all, since no one swings by the ER to say they’ve had yet another safe day of riding the staff have a pretty skewed perspective. ---
**Author:** ![MrStrangeloop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@MrStrangeloop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrStrangeloop)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-me-out-of-getting-a-motorcycle/660678/70 "2013-06-18T23:40:44Z")
Some negativity coming up, but I have to declare up front that I have had many blissful hours of riding over thirty plus years (more than a few miserable, sodden, bone chilled hours, too to be honest), but not very many commuting. And no more injuries than a few minor bruises, which I like to think is not pure luck. Financial issues forced me to sell my last bike a couple of years ago. It’s still not possible to get another for now but I have found that my enthusiasm has waned somewhat and it’s not just age. Other changes over my riding career had already diminished the experience for me. First up may be a case of rose tinted spectacles but it seemed to me in those early days, that besides the acceleration advantage, I could out-brake and out-corner most cars, giving a good range of options for evasive manoeuvres. The straight line acceleration is still there today but brakes on cars are a lot better. Relative cornering seems to be debated hotly in some quarters but I think the cars generally have that sewn up too now. I saw one of these [Ford Escorts]([Ford Escort mk2 UK - Bing images](http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Ford+Escort+mk2+UK&qs=n&form=QBIR&pq=ford+escort+mk2+uk&sc=0-0&sp=-1&sk=#view=detail&) id=54289B962C1B9858E7AEFC01A2BDB8908D78BC6A&selectedIndex=285) recently and was amazed at how narrow the tyres looked - perhaps a clue. Second is the sheer quantity of traffic: it has grown enormously in the last thirty years. Living in London I see a fairly extreme sample but I’d bet that during rush hours all roads used for commuting are similarly packed. Others have already emphasised the amount of vigilance you will need and obviously, the more homicidal maniacs - I mean drivers - there are around, the more difficult it becomes to keep an eye on them all. Related to that first point, since all vehicles accelerate and corner rather faster, but the roads have stayed the same size, everything is closing on the next bottleneck sooner and gaps are smaller. You have less space and less time to get into or out of a stream of traffic which is moving much faster than it did when the roads were built. Lastly, there are the extra distractions of mobile phones, satellite navigation, and audio systems which ought to wake the dead but certainly drown out the sound of anything outside the car. I’ll shut up now. ---
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-me-out-of-getting-a-motorcycle/660678/71 "2013-06-19T01:02:43Z")
One theme I have seen in the results, even from riders, is that riding in (heavy) traffic is more dangerous than light (or no) traffic. I do not believe this. In fact, heavy traffic is safer on a bike than other options. Consider: Most motorcycle accidents that result in injury (or worse) to the operator are single-vehicle accidents. I don’t have a cite, but only because I don’t want to search for one. Everything I have read on the subject has agreed, however. Now, a single-vehicle accident does not necessarily mean there was no traffic, but strongly suggests that the traffic did not contribute (and most of these accidents truly occur with no traffic). Two; light traffic is most likely going to set-up the most dangerous situation for a motorcycle. That is, a car pulling out of a side-street directly in front of a bike or a car making a left-hand turn directly in front of a bike. These are always bad news for the motorcycle rider, since they can’t do anything about it except hit the car. If you are careful, you will watch for these situations and slow down in anticipation. I do it regularly when I ride. I use my horn when I suspect there is someone isn’t paying attention when they are trying to make such a maneuver. Yeah, I get flipped-off, but they don’t pull into my path. So, in heavy traffic, it is almost impossible for someone to pull out in front of you, perpendicular to your path; there is just too much traffic to do that and people will wait for a break. But, in light traffic, they don’t see the bike because they don’t see it as a threat, so they will pull out in front of you. Sure, in heavy traffic, you will get people to move over into your lane without looking. When this happens on a bike, however, you have a better opportunity to avoid a problem than in a car. Your bike is likely to be able to accelerate, decelerate (brake), maneuver, or even share a lane than most cars can. That is, if you are paying attention, you have a better chance of avoiding an accident. Now, for situations as described by **Dalai** , you just can’t protect against, but that is as true on a bike as it is on a car (I am sorry for your brother). You just can’t protect yourself against all dangers. Yes, riding a bike is more dangerous than riding in a car. But, heavy traffic isn’t the hazard most people make it out to be. Sure, it’s dangerous if you aren’t paying attention, but going down a country road with not a car in sight is dangerous if you aren’t paying attention. If you are paying attention, in heavy traffic, it is tough for someone to pull out in front of you. I learned how to drive in traffic on the Houston freeways. Some of the heaviest traffic I’ve seen. People talking on the phone, smoking pot, smoking crack, texting, cooking dinner, having sex, reading the paper; they do it all and if you pay attention, you will see it all (and more!). But, it was on the side roads, residential streets and back roads where my closest calls came. excavating (for a mind) ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-me-out-of-getting-a-motorcycle/660678/72 "2013-06-19T11:34:55Z")
Ok, so I showed my better half this thread and her exact words were “Save it for the mid-life crisis”. So while I haven’t given up on the idea entirely, waiting a bit and driving a car for commuting and whatnot and having a bike just for shits and giggles would probably be a, er, healthy compromise. If I may tack another rider question on; how much more safe are technological advances in the future likely to make motorcycle riding? Is that a factor worth considering or am I just consoling myself? ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-me-out-of-getting-a-motorcycle/660678/73 "2013-06-19T12:48:54Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > If I may tack another rider question on; how much more safe are technological advances in the future likely to make motorcycle riding? Is that a factor worth considering or am I just consoling myself? Anti-lock brakes are a big imrovement; they’ve been around on bikes for a good 20 years or so now. They’re not something you want to routinely rely on - you should still regularly practice emergency braking so you have a feel for where the traction limit is and how quickly the bike can actually stop - but it’s a good backup for when you screw up and brake harder than that. Electronic throttle control is pretty new. A few of BMW’s latest bikes have it, and I’m sure more and more will in the future. Along with that comes the possibility of traction management. Those same bikes offer an array of power-limiting modes ranging from “rain mode” to “you’re on your own,” with the computer also stepping in to chop power when the bike is leaned beyond certain angles (i.e. you’re in a tight turn that uses up a lot of lateral traction), when the front wheel is in the air for more than a certain amount of time, or when the rear wheel starts to spin. Not sure what else we’ll see. Apart from ABS and stability control, the big improvements in cars over the decades have been focused on better crash protection for the occupants: seat belts, airbags, more airbags, energy-absorbing crumple zones, and so on. Very little of that matters on bikes. There have been some [attempts to put airbags on motorcycles](http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ApYPzyPnFOs#t=45s), but they have limited utility: if you get T-boned or rear-ended, or you lowside/highside in a turn all by yourself, the airbag does nothing for you. There are [airbag jackets/suits](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mo9Vlt5tGwY) available, but they’re not cheap; I don’t personally know anyone who owns one. It’s very difficult to make a motorcycle crash as survivable as a car crash. It’s important to wear the best gear you can afford - just in case - but that’s got limited utility. The best return on your investment comes from spending your time, effort, and money to minimize your chances of being involved in a crash in the first place. Get advanced training from a professional on a track so you can safely learn what a motorcycle can and can’t do, and how to make it do what you want. Read books by David Hough to learn how to cope with real-world traffic situations. Practice what the professionals teach you so you develop good habits and don’t panic when a turn tightens up (you will automatically know how far the bike can lean) or when a car turns in front of you (you will automatically know how hard you can brake). ---
**Author:** ![Tully\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7ab992/32.png) [@Tully\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tully_Mars)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-me-out-of-getting-a-motorcycle/660678/74 "2013-06-19T16:47:58Z")
I saw a show (Modern Marvels?) last week that contained a segment about motorcycle crashes. The showed a motorcycle simulator. I thought it would be great training to go through several accident scenarios, such as a car pulling out in front of you. The “I’ve seen this before” conditioning might buy you a half-second of reaction time if it happens to you in the real world. To address the OP, I’ve been riding almost daily for over six years. I commute in heavy traffic. I won’t lie about it - it’s dangerous. I am a much better rider and cage driver because of it. Earlier posters have already covered the safety tips that reduce the changes of injury or death. I would like to add a few negatives. Motorcycling is not a cheap as it appears in the beginning. I just bought a new front tire for $150. It will last maybe a year. I bought a rear tire for $230 a few months ago after a flat tire at 60 mph. That was an interesting ride. The insurance is cheaper that auto insurance, but it’s “in addition to”, not “instead of” auto insurance because I still have to have a truck for rainy days and for hauling stuff. My bike requires oil that doesn’t cause clutch slippage. An oil change is $40 and that’s with me doing the work. All of that said, riding to and from work is often the most gratifying part of my day and I don’t plan to stop until I can no longer do it. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-me-out-of-getting-a-motorcycle/660678/75 "2013-06-19T16:52:43Z")
I had a post that was detailed and well researched…then the SDMB hamsters ate it. Long story short: you have about a .1% Chance of dying in a motorcycle accident each year. That and you will ALWAYS hear about the coworker’s Nephew’s Brother that DIED HORRIBLY in a Motorcycle accident. You will NOT hear about the Aunt’s Reverend’s Brother that drowned in his soup. ---
**Author:** ![Lukeinva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lukeinva/32/17872_2.png) [@Lukeinva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lukeinva)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-me-out-of-getting-a-motorcycle/660678/76 "2013-06-19T16:54:12Z")
Guy I once knew pulled into a gravel parking lot… moving quite rapidly… took a hard right into a parking space and lost the bike. It landed on his right leg… the calf… and him, with the bike on his right calf, skidded along for several feet. On the gravel. The doctors said he “hamburgered” his calf and eventually amputated it. As he considered himself an outlaw biker to enhance his tough guy image he converted his amputated tibia into a cane. ---
**Author:** ![Doggo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/87869e/32.png) [@Doggo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doggo)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-me-out-of-getting-a-motorcycle/660678/77 "2013-06-20T10:53:55Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > Ok, so I showed my better half this thread and her exact words were “Save it for the mid-life crisis”. So while I haven’t given up on the idea entirely, waiting a bit and driving a car for commuting and whatnot and having a bike just for shits and giggles would probably be a, er, healthy compromise. > > If I may tack another rider question on; how much more safe are technological advances in the future likely to make motorcycle riding? Is that a factor worth considering or am I just consoling myself? Short of SF type body shields, travelling over ?5 mph with no realistic protection is always a loser in a collision. In fact, a stationary bike can also do damage as a friend can attest when his stationary bike fell on him and the hot exhaust badly burned his leg before he was able to escape. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-me-out-of-getting-a-motorcycle/660678/78 "2013-06-20T20:27:51Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > Ok, so I showed my better half this thread and her exact words were “Save it for the mid-life crisis”. So while I haven’t given up on the idea entirely, waiting a bit and driving a car for commuting and whatnot and having a bike just for shits and giggles would probably be a, er, healthy compromise. Well, yes and no. Taking up riding when you’re older means you’ll make the same mistakes now without the quicker reactions and better healing abilities you have when you’re younger. I got away with mistakes when I was 16 that I couldn’t now. My big advantage now is years of experience riding and driving. That said, there’s different types of riding. I’m out every day in Chicago traffic, which requires a different skill set than a once-a-month weekend cruise with a bunch of other middle-aged guys on Harleys riding on sparsely-traveled roads. This and motorcycle track days are about the safest types of riding you can do, with cruising much being less demanding than track days. ---
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-me-out-of-getting-a-motorcycle/660678/79 "2013-06-20T21:02:50Z")
The other advice I’ve seen is that you start out with a small bike. People who can afford it that are first time riders tend to buy bikes they can’t control whereas lifelong riders started out w/ 250cc dirt bikes. So to pull a number out of my ass as a non-rider, you probably shouldn’t get anything bigger than a 750 to start. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-me-out-of-getting-a-motorcycle/660678/80 "2013-06-20T22:36:50Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > The bad news is that motorcycles are not practical everywhere. I live in the PNW now… _sigh_ I was supposed to pick my bike up at the shop today. Naturally, it’s raining. :rolleyes: I heard there might be a dry day next week sometime. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-me-out-of-getting-a-motorcycle/660678.md?page=3)