# Talk to me about Wicked. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 26, 2005, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-to-me-about-wicked/332757 "2005-11-26T01:44:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![PinkNailFile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8491ac/32.png) [@PinkNailFile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PinkNailFile)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-to-me-about-wicked/332757/1 "2005-11-26T01:44:08Z")
So I just bought Wicked, and it’s OK. Not the great read that I had expected, but decent. Long enough to keep me occupied for a whole day, which is something that only happens when HP books come out. But overall, I don’t like it very much. Something just doesn’t… click, I suppose. You know how sometimes there are those books with a good plot and great characters and everything needed for a great book, but something isn’t grat about it? That’s how I feel about Wicked. Talk to me about it. Should I invest more time in it? Re-read? What are everyone else’s opinions? ---
**Author:** ![Misnomer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misnomer/32/14897_2.png) [@Misnomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misnomer)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-to-me-about-wicked/332757/2 "2005-11-26T03:28:47Z")
I haven’t read the book, but I _love_ the Broadway soundtrack. So I recommend getting that. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Campion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@Campion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Campion)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-to-me-about-wicked/332757/3 "2005-11-26T03:42:14Z")
> [@Misnomer](#): > > I haven’t read the book, but I _love_ the Broadway soundtrack. So I recommend getting that. The play is great, the soundtrack is awesome, and I also found the book to be snoresville. A friend who actually made it all the way through the book said that there were significant differences between the play and the book, and she liked the play better. > [@PinkNailFile](#): > > Should I invest more time in it? Re-read? Life’s too short. Move on to the next book. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-to-me-about-wicked/332757/4 "2005-11-26T03:47:43Z")
First of all, if anyone could explain the Philosophy Club to me I’d be most grateful. Well, up to a point. Don’t get too graphic. Secondly, he would spend several chapters setting something up and then dropping it. I finished the book and thought, “What was his point?”. I’ve wondered if Son of A Witch would at least clear up the deal with Liir, but haven’t felt the need to read it. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-to-me-about-wicked/332757/5 "2005-11-26T03:49:55Z")
I found the book to be rather politically heavy, and it kind of lost me there. But more importantly, there seemed to be no follow through. SPOILERS? Elphaba starts out as this evil little troll child biting everybody, but once she’s a teenager she’s just a morose pseudo-goth. As an adult she’s a distracted political activist. The tie in to the original _Wizard of Oz_ is only in the last section, and seems to be over too fast with too many plotholes - somehow he has to write her as being a perceived Wicked Witch and do all the things in the known story, even after carefully establishing her as an intelligent, thoughtful, and passionate person. Tried too hard, I think, and totally missed the boat on what would’ve made it a fun read. ---
**Author:** ![Campion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@Campion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Campion)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-to-me-about-wicked/332757/6 "2005-11-26T03:50:01Z")
> [@Misnomer](#): > > I haven’t read the book, but I _love_ the Broadway soundtrack. So I recommend getting that. The play is great, the soundtrack is awesome, and I also found the book to be snoresville. A friend who actually made it all the way through the book said that there were significant differences between the play and the book, and she liked the play better. > [@PinkNailFile](#): > > Should I invest more time in it? Re-read? Life’s too short. Move on to the next book. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-to-me-about-wicked/332757/7 "2005-11-26T04:32:26Z")
I was irked by the fact that the cast recording didn’t have a synopsis in the booklet. No idea why. A couple of fansites have done so ( [this](http://mercy_bell.tripod.com/wickedsynopsis.html) being the first one I googled). I was underwhelmed by it in general, though there are a couple of numbers I liked. _Dancing Through Life_ was cool, _No Good Deed Goes Unpunished_ I liked as well as all of Joel Grey’s numbers (“there are precious few at ease with moral ambiguities so we act as though they don’t exist” is my favorite line from the track), but on the whole I thought it was forgettable. I understand that visually it’s stunning, but other than Nathan Lane’s _The Frogs_ I liked the other cast recordings I bought this year (_Avenue Q, Smokey Joe’s Cafe, Nine_) much better. Of course not being a big fan of fantasy (other than Harry Potter) probably detracts. ---
**Author:** ![Caprese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9a28c/32.png) [@Caprese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caprese)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-to-me-about-wicked/332757/8 "2005-11-26T11:13:17Z")
This is one case where I really preferred the stage show. And I hate musicals! ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-to-me-about-wicked/332757/9 "2005-11-26T12:53:20Z")
I would like to see the show, since I hear it is nothing like the book. I read the book. More a political screed and a shrill one at that, then an actual story. I pitied Elphaba-that’s about all I remember. I vaguely remember brown dusty landscapes, nobody happy-at all , ever, and someone with no arms and no legs. Why that was in there-no idea. Based on this book, I decided to not bother with the author’s take on Cinderella or Snow White–I’ll keep my childhood, Disneyfied memories, thankyouverymuch. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-to-me-about-wicked/332757/10 "2005-11-26T13:48:50Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I was irked by the fact that the cast recording didn’t have a synopsis in the booklet. No idea why. A couple of fansites have done so ( [this](http://mercy_bell.tripod.com/wickedsynopsis.html) being the first one I googled). > > I was underwhelmed by it in general, though there are a couple of numbers I liked. _Dancing Through Life_ was cool, _No Good Deed Goes Unpunished_ I liked as well as all of Joel Grey’s numbers (“there are precious few at ease with moral ambiguities so we act as though they don’t exist” is my favorite line from the track), but on the whole I thought it was forgettable. I understand that visually it’s stunning, but other than Nathan Lane’s _The Frogs_ I liked the other cast recordings I bought this year (_Avenue Q, Smokey Joe’s Cafe, Nine_) much better. > > Of course not being a big fan of fantasy (other than Harry Potter) probably detracts. I had read the book even before the musical was written. I liked it, but wasn;t crazy about it. I got the soundtrack, got as far as _The Wizard and I_, and fell in love. I was absolutely enthralled. I listened to the thing over and over, like a mental patient. I was going crazy wondering how _Defying Gravity_ was staged, since it was such a powerful musical moment. And _For Good_ made my allergies act up or something, because I’d get water in my eyes for some strange reason. In sharp contrast to **Sampiro** ’s experience, I liked _Avenue Q_ just fine - strong book, great music, fun fun fun. But it didn’t grab me the way _Wicked_ did. (I’m well aware that Tony wasn’t on my side here either ☹ ). And _Smokey Joe’s Cafe_ was simply a pleasant medley; an hour of cover songs. _Caroline, or Change_ sank like a stone. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-to-me-about-wicked/332757/11 "2005-11-26T13:54:30Z")
**Wicked** is one of those shows where you wonder how anyone could read the book and make such a great thing out of it. The only worse book to great musical I can think of is Spiderwoman. Get the cast CD and see if you can find a Broadway program on ebay. Much easier than re-reading the book. ---
**Author:** ![Campion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@Campion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Campion)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-to-me-about-wicked/332757/12 "2005-11-26T15:17:37Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I was underwhelmed by it in general, though there are a couple of numbers I liked. ::sniffs:: Philistine! 😉 > [@Bricker](#): > > I got the soundtrack, got as far as The Wizard and I, and fell in love. I was absolutely enthralled. I listened to the thing over and over, like a mental patient. I was going crazy wondering how Defying Gravity was staged, since it was such a powerful musical moment. And For Good made my allergies act up or something, because I’d get water in my eyes for some strange reason. I’m in LA, so we don’t get very many of the great Broadway shows (and when we do, it’s the national touring company, which can be very hit-or-miss). But when _Wicked_ came out here, it was wonderful. (_Caroline, or Change_ was truly awful, and not just because inanimate objects were the best singers.) In _Defying Gravity_, Elphaba tries to convince Galinda to come with her. For those who don’t want the scene spoiled:[spoiler]Together they can take down the Wizard and stop his evil plans. But after considering it, Galinda won’t go (“I hope you’re happy/Now that you’re choosing this.”) The Wizard’s soldiers have been chasing them, and finally break down the door to the room where the two are hiding. Since Galinda won’t come with her, Elphaba hops on her broomstick to escape the soldiers (“If you care to find me/Look to the western sky.”) and you get the classic wicked witch silhouette: black cape, black witch’s hat (the “smart” hat Galinda gave her before the dance), on a broomstick, flying in front of the moon. Gave me goosebumps, it did.[/spoiler] > [@eleanorigby](#): > > I read the book. More a political screed and a shrill one at that, then an actual story. I pitied Elphaba-that’s about all I remember. There are still significant elements of the political in the show, but they’re not as pointed as in the book. It seemed much more subtle and didn’t overwhelm the characters’ development. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-to-me-about-wicked/332757/13 "2005-11-26T15:44:01Z")
I read the book when it came out, liked it a lot, then earlier this year started to reread it and soon stopped. Right now I couldn’t tell you why I liked it the first time. I think I was for some reason impressed that a writer would have the _chutzpa_ to use such a well-known fantasy setting as Baum’s Oz. (Although now that doesn’t impress me at all; in fact, it’s almost as annoying as fanfic.) I was glad to know that I wasn’t the only one who thought the Wizard was the villain in the original book. But overall, it just seems like a stupid idea now. The political elements are never clearly focused; also, the book combines elements from the Baum books and the famous 1939 movie in a way that now seems lazy rather than clever. Also, I’ve come to hate the writing style. The dialogue sounds more like a writer trying to be clever than anything people (even in Oz) might actually say. Fuck it. This may be a case where a stage musical is actually an improvement over the original material. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-to-me-about-wicked/332757/14 "2005-11-26T16:01:52Z")
My book club all LOVED the book - except me. I also found it difficult to get through and kind of uninspiring. (The other book they all loved and I thought “meh” was Mary Doria Russell’s The Sparrow). We read Confessions of an Ugly Stepsister a few years ago, I did enjoy that book a lot more, they were less impressed than they’d been with Wicked. I’d move on. Sounds like you finished it and it didn’t work for you. Maybe the next book will. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Tiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Mama\_Tiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Tiger)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-to-me-about-wicked/332757/15 "2005-11-26T16:22:53Z")
I’d read a bunch of the Baum books as a child, and so when a coworker who _loved_ Wicked lent it to me, I tried, I really did. But it left me completely cold, too. I finished it just because I kept hearing all these rave reviews of it and kept wondering what I was missing – maybe if I read another 50 pages, I’ll figure it out? – but no such luck. I’d dismissed the musical as anything I’d ever be interested in seeing based on the book, but having heard what you guys say, I may have to give it a shot one of these days. Or at least try the soundtrack. But why anyone would want to reread this book is beyond me, unless they’re into masochism. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-to-me-about-wicked/332757/16 "2005-11-26T16:29:03Z")
[Nitpick]–Live shows \* do not\* have soundtracks. Only _movies_ have soundtracks. Live shows have \*cast recordings (or CDS) \*. Refer to a “cast recording” as a “soundtrack” in front of a musicals fanatic and you run the risk of being pounded with the nearest blunt object. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-to-me-about-wicked/332757/17 "2005-11-26T16:54:03Z")
I’ve read all three of Gregory Maguire’s “fable” books, _Wicked, Confessions of an Ugly Stepsister_ (Cinderella) and _Mirror, Mirror_ (Snow White). He’s an interesting but problematic and quirky writer; if you don’t like his writing, there’s no need to force yourself and reread _Wicked_ or try his other books. Hell, I can’t stand Hemingway or Joyce, and have no intention of giving them a “second chance!” ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-to-me-about-wicked/332757/18 "2005-11-26T22:34:10Z")
I thought the book was good, but not great. It completely collapsed at the end. Same story with his other two books: decent writing with a cute little concept but utter garbage for the closer. If Wicked didn’t work for you, I think I’d walk away from the rest of his books. He doesn’t really break any new ground with them. ---
**Author:** ![Dijon\_Warlock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a9a28c/32.png) [@Dijon\_Warlock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dijon_Warlock)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-to-me-about-wicked/332757/19 "2005-11-26T22:38:55Z")
> **[JinWicked.com](https://jinwicked.com/)** > > Visual and performance artist, illustrator, podcaster, and writer. Life is art. …what? ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-to-me-about-wicked/332757/20 "2005-12-07T23:36:34Z")
I finished reading the book today and wasn’t sure if I should bump the recent thread or start a new one. So I guess I will bump this one. I thought there were a lot of interesting ideas in the book but the politics seriously got in the way. I enjoyed the parts that played off the fantasy world of Oz that Baum created and turned some of those ideas on their head. But I have to agree that the ending basically lost me. Even though I haven’t seen the show I imagine it can’t follow the book too closely given the amount of sexual content the book has and the fact the show is recommended for children 8 and up. I assume the Munchkin and Tiger sex acts at the Philosophy club are not in the musical. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-to-me-about-wicked/332757.md?page=2)