# "Talk to Me" -- "Don't Talk to Me" symbols for autistic persons **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 4, 2015, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-to-me-dont-talk-to-me-symbols-for-autistic-persons/724192 "2015-07-04T03:44:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-to-me-dont-talk-to-me-symbols-for-autistic-persons/724192/1 "2015-07-04T03:44:29Z")
I’m at the Westercon – Western U.S. Science Fiction Convention – in sunny San Diego this weekend. Being fun! Someone was handing out little indicators you could clip to your membership badge. They are visual indicators to help let autistic persons – who might not be as able to read body language as other persons – how approachable strangers are to conversation. A red indicator with one black stripe means “Don’t talk to me right now, please.” A yellow indicator with two black stripes means “Don’t talk to me unless you already know me.” A green indicator with three black stripes means “It’s okay to talk to me.” (I’m happily wearing the green indicator!) Is this a commonplace thing in the autistic community? Is it readily understood in most locales? Are there competing symbologies? I think it’s a very pretty idea – and I’ve not seen anyone wearing red or yellow indicators, only green. (One guy started to clip on a yellow indicator, and his wife told him to take it off!) Is this a new idea? I’d never seen or heard of it before. Is it in any way controversial? Are there autistic advocates who think it’s a bad idea, as well as (apparently) those who think it’s a good idea? Would wearing a red indicator be poor etiquette? It seems wrong to me to go to a convention – a place we get together to talk! – and ask not to be talked to. But it’s well to try to respect everyone’s “personal space.” ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-to-me-dont-talk-to-me-symbols-for-autistic-persons/724192/2 "2015-07-04T03:55:26Z")
I have a good friend who has Aspergers and often spoke of not knowing social cues. I think that system with the name tags is a good idea. I haven’t talked to my friend in a few months, I should probably give him a call… ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-to-me-dont-talk-to-me-symbols-for-autistic-persons/724192/3 "2015-07-04T13:39:32Z")
I wonder if people ever switch their indicators mid-conversation. Because I have some non-autistic coworkers who I’d love to be able to do this with. I can’t see why having the red indicator would be rude. Don’t a lot of people go to conventions to just be spectators? Also, there are perfectly good reasons why you may not want to chit-chat. I know that it is difficult for me to have a conversation with someone when I’m in the midst of a huge noisy crowd and there’s a lot going on around me. A lot of people who are “neurologically atypical” have this problem. So it shouldn’t be perceived as rude, at least by the autistic. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-to-me-dont-talk-to-me-symbols-for-autistic-persons/724192/4 "2015-07-04T15:58:55Z")
I’ve never heard of this before, and it strikes me as one of those things that seems like a nice idea on the surface but in reality is only going to cause more problems. If human social interaction were simple, logical, and straightforward enough for a three-color system to work, it probably wouldn’t present a problem for people on the autism spectrum to begin with. First, as the OP indicates, many people are going to feel pressured to use the green indicator so they don’t seem unfriendly. It then becomes largely meaningless. Even if people are truly honest with their clips, “It’s okay to talk to me” presumably does not really mean “It’s okay to talk to me about anything at all, for as long as you want.” Almost everyone would be fine with a stranger asking for directions to the bathroom, while hardly anyone wants to get stuck in a conversation with someone who’s obnoxious, creepy, or just plain boring. Switching your indicator from green to yellow or red in the middle of a conversation is going to strike most of these jerks and bores as very rude. I suppose some people on the autism spectrum might be fine with getting a clear signal like this, but it’s not going to be easy for the listener to predict the reaction they’ll get when they clip on their “STFU and leave me alone” indicator. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-to-me-dont-talk-to-me-symbols-for-autistic-persons/724192/5 "2015-07-04T16:07:59Z")
This reminds me of the concept of a “traffic light” party in which people wear red, yellow, or green based on their willingness to hook up at the party. It becomes a nightmare to decide which to indicate—“I don’t want people treating me like a slut but I still want attractive people to talk to me” ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-to-me-dont-talk-to-me-symbols-for-autistic-persons/724192/6 "2015-07-04T16:10:30Z")
Missed the edit window, but I wanted to add that as a woman I would be very uncomfortable with a situation where I either had to wear a clear signal that I’m an unapproachable bitch or that I’m willing to have literally any man around come chat me up. I mean, I _am_ an unapproachable bitch, but wearing a sign that says so seems likely to be taken as an invitation for harassment from creeps. I’ve gotten “Whatsamatter baby, you think you’re too good for me?” type reactions from creeps I’m trying to ignore in public even without a red “Don’t talk to me” badge. Since wearing a sign that says that I’m up for “interaction” with total strangers is _also_ likely to be taken as an invitation for harassment, it seems like a no-win for me. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-to-me-dont-talk-to-me-symbols-for-autistic-persons/724192/7 "2015-07-04T17:46:47Z")
So all the people who talk to me when I obviously don’t want them to are autistic? It really is an epidemic! ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-to-me-dont-talk-to-me-symbols-for-autistic-persons/724192/8 "2015-07-04T19:14:12Z")
I applaud the intent. 🙂 some bugs to work out, but it’s very, very nice to know that people are trying. Maybe the web-text here is don’t rely on this if you aren’t autistic and you can actually read body language. My son is autistic and could sometimes use these indicators. I find Cons an interesting social barometer. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-to-me-dont-talk-to-me-symbols-for-autistic-persons/724192/9 "2015-07-04T19:19:18Z")
Is all the sympathy for Asperger’s sufferers? What about someone like me, who will be chatting away merrily and then suddenly say something that makes everyone uncomfortable? What about a badge to help me? ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-to-me-dont-talk-to-me-symbols-for-autistic-persons/724192/10 "2015-07-04T20:22:51Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > What about a badge to help me? You can use the same badge; just clip it onto your mouth. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2015, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-to-me-dont-talk-to-me-symbols-for-autistic-persons/724192/11 "2015-07-05T02:43:19Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > So all the people who talk to me when I obviously don’t want them to are autistic? It really is an epidemic! The presumption is that non-autistic persons are socially adroit enough to know when it is appropriate to approach strangers for conversation. Severely autistic persons are (possibly) unable to access the social hints and signals that most of us send out as a part of our normal non-verbal stance. > [@ddsun](#): > > I applaud the intent. 🙂 some bugs to work out, but it’s very, very nice to know that people are trying. Maybe the web-text here is don’t rely on this if you aren’t autistic and you can actually read body language. > > My son is autistic and could sometimes use these indicators. I find Cons an interesting social barometer. 🙂 I never saw anyone wearing the red or yellow tags. It was (still is, as of this writing!) a very friendly and cheerful convention, chock-full of people with fun stories to tell and hear. As with any group of people, you do have the occasional bore, who has a story one might just as happily not have to sit and listen to. But that doesn’t seem to have much correlation with the autism spectrum. > [@Acsenray](#): > > Is all the sympathy for Asperger’s sufferers? What about someone like me, who will be chatting away merrily and then suddenly say something that makes everyone uncomfortable? What about a badge to help me? For that, you need Hermione Granger’s Time Turner. “And so my cake just farted and fell.” Long, uncomfortable silence. Flip the Time Turner, and go back in time a few seconds. “And so my cake made a horrible noise and fell.” Everyone smiles and nods sympathetically. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2015, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-to-me-dont-talk-to-me-symbols-for-autistic-persons/724192/12 "2015-07-05T03:01:16Z")
This sounds like a classroom technique that works really well as a teaching tool, which someone who had only heard vaguely of it decided to adapt to the real world, and “good idea, poor execution,” comes to mind. Aside from the fact that this is a technique for high-functioning people with good language skills, who need some real-world practice for the things they learn in classes or therapy, the problem of trying to turn anyone a person might happen to run into, into a therapist should be obvious. If someone feels social pressure to wear the green light, but actually doesn’t want to be chatted up by just anyone, and is therefore giving off body language and vocal tone, alone with other cues that the interaction is unwanted, the project totally backfires, and not only do the autistic people not gain anything, but they may lose ground they’ve gained with this technique in a classroom with therapists. Therapists know how to reproduce tone and body language and word choices that truly reflect the badge, and not the therapists’ feelings, because they’ve had training. I worked with autistic people a lot when I was a social worker. I never did anything like this, but I did similar things that take training, and couldn’t be implemented by lay people with no training, even though they look pretty easy. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2015, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-to-me-dont-talk-to-me-symbols-for-autistic-persons/724192/13 "2015-07-05T03:13:47Z")
I suggested something similar for one of my cubicle farm workplaces years ago. It was very difficult to get left alone long enough to do my job (technical writing), and this was before laptops were common, so I couldn’t just up and move to a room with a door. I was told that, no, we couldn’t possibly do it, because it was rude. Rude to say, “Please don’t talk to me, I’m on a deadline. Please send an email and I’ll get back with you after 3 pm.” Rude to want to do my job well. _facepalm_ Anyway…I like the idea in all walks of life. ETA: **RivkahChaya** , I like your post and explanation. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2015, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-to-me-dont-talk-to-me-symbols-for-autistic-persons/724192/14 "2015-07-05T18:40:47Z")
Here’s what a version of this looks like. I think the traffic symbols in the article below are more intuitive for people than the bars system described in the OP. [PDF link to symbols](http://autisticadvocacy.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/ColorCommunicationBadges.pdf) [Color Communication Badges February 21, 2014](http://autisticadvocacy.org/2014/02/color-communication-badges/) > [@](#): > > The Autistic Self Advocacy Network is proud to announce the release of a new technical assistance document describing the use of color communication badges. Color Communication Badges are an accommodation to support social interaction for people with a variety of disabilities and communication needs. Color communication badges were first developed by Autism Network International, and popularized by the Autistic community in Autistic spaces and conferences. > > Color Communication Badges offer those who use them an opportunity to communicate explicitly the degree to which they want to participate in new social interactions and with who. They offer a universally designed way of making a conference, university, event or other space more accessible to those who may not find typical nonverbal social cues accessible. Many non-disabled people report that this system also benefits them too. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2015, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-to-me-dont-talk-to-me-symbols-for-autistic-persons/724192/15 "2015-07-05T18:49:29Z")
> [@GrumpyBunny](#): > > I suggested something similar for one of my cubicle farm workplaces years ago. It was very difficult to get left alone long enough to do my job (technical writing), and this was before laptops were common, so I couldn’t just up and move to a room with a door. > > I was told that, no, we couldn’t possibly do it, because it was rude. Rude to say, “Please don’t talk to me, I’m on a deadline. Please send an email and I’ll get back with you after 3 pm.” Rude to want to do my job well. _facepalm_ > > Anyway…I like the idea in all walks of life. > > ETA: **RivkahChaya** , I like your post and explanation. Aww. You’d like it where I work, then. We have these circles on our doors that invite people in, inform them that we’re in a meeting, say we’re seeking concentration so they should e-mail us, let them know the door’s only closed to control the temperature, or that we’re not in the office. They work pretty well, except for my officemate’s colleagues occasionally barging in during my meetings because they “forget” to look and see that she’s not even in that day :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2015, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talk-to-me-dont-talk-to-me-symbols-for-autistic-persons/724192/16 "2015-07-06T00:48:54Z")
**astro** : Thanks for the links! That answers most of my questions. The only thing I’m not completely clear on is: is it okay for me, as a non-autistic person in any way (well, mildly nerdy) to wear a green indicator, to show I’m happy to chat with damn near anyone? Or is it really intended only for autistic persons?