# Talking to plants.. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [November 6, 2006, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talking-to-plants/379330 "2006-11-06T18:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talking-to-plants/379330/41 "2006-11-13T16:22:28Z")
[QUOTE=Iamonfire] You guys are gullible. these people want me out [/QUOTE] Would you care to explain why you exactly think that? And who are “these people”? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talking-to-plants/379330/42 "2006-11-13T16:49:23Z")
[QUOTE=Iamonfire] ^^^at least someone believes me. Thanks Curt, it means a lot. [/QUOTE] Aaaah, look guys-his first woosh! Isn’t it cute? ---
**Author:** ![SiXSwordS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@SiXSwordS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SiXSwordS)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talking-to-plants/379330/43 "2006-11-13T17:06:40Z")
[QUOTE=Musicat] [nitpick] Yes they can. vB’s option to automatically tag edits can be turned off and on by admins. [/nitpick] [/QUOTE] Does that apply to individual posts and threads, or is that global? Could a MOD change one post in one thread without it being obvious that they had turned off the tags? (BTW, I have no reason to believe any of the MODS would do this or even care enough about _this_ thread to go to the trouble.) I was surprised to find this information by following up on **Iamonfire** ’s wiki link. > [@](#): > > [Chandra Bose’s] research in plant stimuli [was] pioneering, he showed with the help of his newly invented crescograph that plants responded to various stimuli as if they had nervous systems like that of animals. He therefore found a parallelism between animal and plant tissues. > > His experiments showed that plants grow faster in pleasant music and its growth retards in noise or harsh sound. This was experimentally verified later on. > **[Jagadish Chandra Bose](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jagadis_Chandra_Bose)** > > Sir Jagadish Chandra Bose (/boʊs/; .mw-parser-output .IPA-label-small{font-size:85%}.mw-parser-output .references .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .infobox .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .navbox .IPA-label-small{font-size:100%}IPA: \[d͡ʒɔɡod̪iʃ t͡ʃɔn̪d̪ro boʃu\]; 30 November 1858 – 23 November 1937) was a polymath with interests in biology, physics and writing science fiction. He was a pioneer in the investigation of radio microwave optics, made significant contributions to botany Born in M... I’m not sure how _noise_ and _harsh sound_ are defined, or if this research is so old as to be past its sell-by date, but on the surface it looks valid. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talking-to-plants/379330/44 "2006-11-13T17:43:50Z")
[QUOTE=SiXSwordS] I’m not sure how _noise_ and _harsh sound_ are defined, or if this research is so old as to be past its sell-by date, but on the surface it looks valid. [/QUOTE] Nah, it’s nonsense, like pretty much everything else **Iamonfire** has posted. Despite Bose’s achievements in physics, much of his work in plants has not been verified. I would note that no citation is given for the allegation that “his work was experimentally verified later on” with regard to the allegation that “plants grow faster in pleasant music and its growth retards in noise or harsh sound.” The tension-cohesion theory for the ascent of sap is now generally accepted, rather than those espoused by Bose. And while there is evidence for transmission of electrical signals in plant tissues, this is quite different from having “nervous systems like those of animals.” ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talking-to-plants/379330/45 "2006-11-13T17:51:03Z")
[QUOTE=SiXSwordS] I’m not sure how _noise_ and _harsh sound_ are defined, or if this research is so old as to be past its sell-by date, but on the surface it looks valid. [/QUOTE] Since absolutely nothing of substance is cited, I am curious as to how you can reach an evaluation either way as to the validity of the research. ---
**Author:** ![Iamonfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b3f665/32.png) [@Iamonfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iamonfire)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talking-to-plants/379330/46 "2006-11-13T18:20:14Z")
You are all haters - if Contracuntal had read the link he would have seen that the experiments were actually confirmed in "Wildon et al (Nature, 1992, 360, 62–65) I don’t remember Nature publishing any old codswollop. Collibriate has just abused me, the admins are changing my posts. It really is beyond me - I’m just trying to put my point across and am turned upon. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talking-to-plants/379330/47 "2006-11-13T18:36:22Z")
[QUOTE=Iamonfire] You are all haters - if Contracuntal had read the link he would have seen that the experiments were actually confirmed in "Wildon et al (Nature, 1992, 360, 62–65) I don’t remember Nature publishing any old codswollop. Collibriate has just abused me, the admins are changing my posts. It really is beyond me - I’m just trying to put my point across and am turned upon. [/QUOTE] No, we are _reasoners_. We don’t accept the idea of “if it feels good, it **must** be **true**!” On one is persecuting you. We are just a practical, hard-headed bunch of folks, living in an era of wooly thinking. > [@](#): > > What are the facts? Again and again and again — what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history” — what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!~~ **Robert A. Heinlein** I hope you remember & retain the above quote. It can change your life. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talking-to-plants/379330/48 "2006-11-13T18:47:09Z")
[QUOTE=SiXSwordS] > [@Musicat](#): > > Originally Posted by Musicat > [nitpick] > Yes they can. vB’s option to automatically tag edits can be turned off and on by admins. > [/nitpick] Does that apply to individual posts and threads, or is that global? Could a MOD change one post in one thread without it being obvious that they had turned off the tags? (BTW, I have no reason to believe any of the MODS would do this or even care enough about _this_ thread to go to the trouble. [/QUOTE] This may vary according to vB version – and my WAG is the newer ones are more flexible – but in the older 2.x the automatic “last edited by”+name+date can be turned on/off for admins as a group. From the options pages: > [@](#): > > **Show the ‘Edited by xxx on yyy’ when a post is edited?** Yes No > > **Show ‘edited by’ for admins?** Yes No > > If you want the [edited by xxx] message to appear when an admin edits a message, select yes here. This message will appear automatically for all moderators and other users, but using this option you can optionally turn it off. Of course, it could be turned off, a post made, then turned on afterwards to accomplish something devious. Please understand I am not suggesting that our mods/admins do any such thing, nor do I think they are that unethical. But the technical functions exist for that to happen without a code hack (at least in some versions). **Iamonfire,** if you think your post has been changed, why don’t you try posting it again? Surely the mods wouldn’t dare do it twice in a row while we are all watching! ---
**Author:** ![SiXSwordS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@SiXSwordS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SiXSwordS)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talking-to-plants/379330/49 "2006-11-13T18:48:52Z")
> [@](#): > > His major contribution in the field of biophysics was the demonstration of the electrical nature of the conduction of various stimuli (wounds, chemical agents) in plants, which were earlier thought to be of chemical in nature. These claims were experimentally proved by \*Wildon et al (Nature, 1992, 360, 62–65). I think the reference is to electrical conduction versus chemical conduction. I have not been able to find anything to substantively back the claim that his experiments with music and plant growth were valid. But I am trying. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talking-to-plants/379330/50 "2006-11-13T19:02:08Z")
[QUOTE=Iamonfire] You are all haters - if Contracuntal had read the link he would have seen that the experiments were actually confirmed in "Wildon et al (Nature, 1992, 360, 62–65) I don’t remember Nature publishing any old codswollop. [/QUOTE] The Wiki link does not mention _Nature_. The second lnk does not mention Backster. What are you talking about? Why did you not complain about the altering of your posts until the second time I pointed it out to you, rather than when you first noticed it? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talking-to-plants/379330/51 "2006-11-13T19:10:36Z")
[QUOTE=Iamonfire] You are all haters - if Contracuntal had read the link he would have seen that the experiments were actually confirmed in "Wildon et al (Nature, 1992, 360, 62–65) I don’t remember Nature publishing any old codswollop. [/quote] No, as I said, although Wildon et al and other experiments have shown the existence of electrical signals in plants (which is not the same as having a nervous system), most of Bose’s other allegations have either not been confirmed or have been refuted. > [@](#): > > Collibriate has just abused me, Assuming you are referring to me (and is that supposed to be some kind of insult?), no, I have not abused you. I have made a simple statement of fact. Most of what you have posted here, and elsewhere on the board, has been nonsense. If you feel that pointing this out is “abuse,” you are far too sensitive for this board. > [@](#): > > the admins are changing my posts. This is a lie. Your posts are exactly the same as they have always been. In any case, it would be rather difficult to change them to make you look worse than what you have already written. > [@](#): > > It really is beyond me - I’m just trying to put my point across and am turned upon. You have been remarkably ineffective in putting your point across. Perhaps you should actually post some serious data and evidence instead of insulting other posters. And here’s a hint - a Wiki article isn’t really considered to be a serious reference. ---
**Author:** ![SiXSwordS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@SiXSwordS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SiXSwordS)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talking-to-plants/379330/52 "2006-11-13T19:29:31Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] The Wiki link does not mention _Nature_. [/QUOTE] I’m confused. I thought the citation was for a Nature article too. > [@](#): > > Wildon et al (_Nature_, 1992, 360, 62–65) I’ve even gone so far as to browse their website [http://www.nature.com/nature/index.html](http://www.nature.com/nature/index.html) looking for the article. What does _Nature_ in the wiki citation refer to? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talking-to-plants/379330/53 "2006-11-13T19:38:02Z")
[QUOTE=SiXSwordS] I’m confused. I thought the citation was for a Nature article too. I’ve even gone so far as to browse their website [http://www.nature.com/nature/index.html](http://www.nature.com/nature/index.html) looking for the article. What does _Nature_ in the wiki citation refer to? [/QUOTE] Here is the abstract of the article: [http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v360/n6399/abs/360062a0.html](http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v360/n6399/abs/360062a0.html) **Contrapuntal** was mistaken; the Wiki article does cite the Nature article. However, the Nature article does not confirm **Iamonfire’s** assertions. ---
**Author:** ![SiXSwordS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@SiXSwordS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SiXSwordS)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talking-to-plants/379330/54 "2006-11-13T19:43:42Z")
And now I found [it](http://www.nature.com/search/executeSearch?sp-q=+Wildon+et+al&sp-c=10&sp-s=date&submit=go&sp-a=sp1001702d&sp-sfvl-field=subject%7Cujournal&sp-p=all) . You can get a free glimpse of the article [here](http://www.springerlink.com/content/p147263751714582/) ---
**Author:** ![SiXSwordS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@SiXSwordS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SiXSwordS)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talking-to-plants/379330/55 "2006-11-13T19:45:22Z")
preview :smack: preview :smack: preview :smack: preview :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talking-to-plants/379330/56 "2006-11-13T19:52:47Z")
[QUOTE=SiXSwordS] And now I found [it](http://www.nature.com/search/executeSearch?sp-q=+Wildon+et+al&sp-c=10&sp-s=date&submit=go&sp-a=sp1001702d&sp-sfvl-field=subject%7Cujournal&sp-p=all) . You can get a free glimpse of the article [here](http://www.springerlink.com/content/p147263751714582/) [/QUOTE] I’m sure you realize this after your most recent post, but for the benefit of others, those are different articles from the one cited in Wiki (the first one cites Wildon et al 1992; the second is another more recent article by him). ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talking-to-plants/379330/57 "2006-11-13T20:07:38Z")
[QUOTE=Iamonfire] You are all haters - if Contracuntal had read the link he would have seen that the experiments were actually confirmed in "Wildon et al (Nature, 1992, 360, 62–65) I don’t remember Nature publishing any old codswollop. [/quote] Just in case anyone has such poor reading comprehension as to think Iamonfire gave a cite to back him up, the full paragraph in the Wiki article reads: > [@](#): > > His experiments showed that plants grow faster in pleasant music and its growth retards in noise or harsh sound. This was experimentally verified later on. His major contribution in the field of biophysics was the demonstration of the electrical nature of the conduction of various stimuli (wounds, chemical agents) in plants, which were earlier thought to be of chemical in nature. These claims were experimentally proved by \*Wildon et al (Nature, 1992, 360, 62–65). He also studied for the first time action of microwaves in plant tissues and corresponding changes in the cell membrane potential, mechanism of effect of seasons in plants, effect of chemical inhibitor on plant stimuli, effect of temperature etc,. And all studies were pioneering. He claimed that plants can “feel pain, understand affection etc,” from the analysis of the nature of variation of the cell membrane potential of plants, under different circumstances. According to him a plant treated with care and affection gives out a different vibration compared to a plant subjected to torture. IOW, the confirmation was of an entirely different set of experiments than the plants can feel pain or understand affection experiments. Suggesting otherwise means we’re being lied to. > [@](#): > > Collibriate has just abused me, the admins are changing my posts. It really is beyond me - I’m just trying to put my point across and am turned upon. Boy, I bet you’re turned on by acting this way. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![SiXSwordS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@SiXSwordS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SiXSwordS)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talking-to-plants/379330/58 "2006-11-13T20:19:16Z")
[QUOTE=Colibri] I’m sure you realize this after your most recent post, but for the benefit of others, those are different articles from the one cited in Wiki (the first one cites Wildon et al 1992; the second is another more recent article by him). [/QUOTE] Now the Mods are changing _my_ posts! ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talking-to-plants/379330/59 "2006-11-13T20:33:49Z")
[QUOTE=Exapno Mapcase] IOW, the confirmation was of an entirely different set of experiments than the plants can feel pain or understand affection experiments. Suggesting otherwise means we’re being lied to. [/QUOTE] It’s also worth noting the general incoherence of that Wiki paragraph. It’s particularly interesting to note “[h]is . . . demonstration of the electrical nature of the conduction of . . . chemical agents . . .which were earlier thought to be of chemical in nature.” ---
**Author:** ![SiXSwordS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@SiXSwordS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SiXSwordS)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talking-to-plants/379330/60 "2006-11-13T20:38:32Z")
But seriously, I appreciate you pointing that out, **Colibri**. I didn’t realize that. I’m not very familiar with citation formats. I might have realized it eventually, but pointing it out, without rubbing my nose in it, helps. I’ve been trying to use other resources besides wikipedia, but with a topic like this it’s like going from preschool to pre-med. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talking-to-plants/379330.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talking-to-plants/379330.md?page=4)