# Talking warts away **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 2, 2007, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talking-warts-away/417796 "2007-09-02T07:16:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talking-warts-away/417796/181 "2007-09-04T21:17:20Z")
Yes, but your documentation says paranormal = magic. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Iknewit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/4491bb/32.png) [@Iknewit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iknewit)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talking-warts-away/417796/182 "2007-09-04T21:18:24Z")
[QUOTE=Yllaria] Yes, but your documentation says paranormal = magic. Sorry. [/QUOTE] Well that’s just a lie. ---
**Author:** ![Iknewit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/4491bb/32.png) [@Iknewit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iknewit)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talking-warts-away/417796/183 "2007-09-04T21:19:43Z")
Here let me post it again for you: Paranormal 2 senses of paranormal Sense 1 extrasensory (vs. sensory), paranormal =\> clairvoyant =\> telegnostic =\> telepathic Also See-\> paranormal#2 Sense 2 paranormal (vs. normal) =\> parapsychological =\> psychic, psychical =\> psychokinetic =\> supernormal, supranormal Also See-\> extrasensory#1, paranormal#1; unnatural#1 Search for paranormal Word : Synonyms : Classes paranormal:supernatural: paranormal:tarrot unusual sychology alienaranormal: Where is “magic” ? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talking-warts-away/417796/184 "2007-09-04T21:21:24Z")
[QUOTE=Iknewit] No problem. The Horizon Problem is a purported supernatural phenomenon without scientific explanation. The use of “as” is called “simile” by the way. It’s just a comparison. [/QUOTE] It’s a comparison, yes, but still an important part of the definition - you notice they didn’t choose to include things like the Horizon Problem in the list. Thing is - you already know what Randi’s definition of ‘paranormal’ is, because part of your argument is that he will dismiss some of the things _you’re_ trying to define that way. So we all know what he means, _he_ knows what he means, and it appears _you_ know what he means, but still you’re trying to act surprised or flabberghasted about it. I don’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talking-warts-away/417796/185 "2007-09-04T21:21:59Z")
All of it. All of those categories are categories of magic. ---
**Author:** ![Iknewit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/4491bb/32.png) [@Iknewit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iknewit)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talking-warts-away/417796/186 "2007-09-04T21:27:21Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] It’s a comparison, yes, but still an important part of the definition - you notice they didn’t choose to include things like the Horizon Problem in the list. Thing is - you already know what Randi’s definition of ‘paranormal’ is, because part of your argument is that he will dismiss some of the things _you’re_ trying to define that way. So we all know what he means, _he_ knows what he means, and it appears _you_ know what he means, but still you’re trying to act surprised or flabberghasted about it. I don’t get it. [/QUOTE] I am not surprised or flabberghasted at all. And I did not know what Randi’s definition of “paranormal” was or is. Aside from the misuse of that word, the entire statement is a lie. Let me post it again: “At JREF, we offer a one-million-dollar prize to anyone who can show, under proper observing conditions, evidence of any paranormal, supernatural, or occult power or event.” That is what the information page says but not what the rules say. It’s a lie. Bogus. Bogus meaning “deceitful and dishonest”. ---
**Author:** ![Iknewit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/4491bb/32.png) [@Iknewit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iknewit)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talking-warts-away/417796/187 "2007-09-04T21:28:30Z")
[QUOTE=Yllaria] All of it. All of those categories are categories of magic. [/QUOTE] Again, if you can prove paranormal = magic, do so. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talking-warts-away/417796/188 "2007-09-04T21:31:04Z")
[QUOTE=Iknewit] . . . Aside from the misuse of that word . . . [/QUOTE] The word was not misused, at least not by Randi. And in case you haven’t guessed yet, it would take magic for you to convince us that it was. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talking-warts-away/417796/189 "2007-09-04T21:32:16Z")
[QUOTE=Iknewit] I am not surprised or flabberghasted at all. And I did not know what Randi’s definition of “paranormal” was or is. Aside from the misuse of that word, the entire statement is a lie. Let me post it again: “At JREF, we offer a one-million-dollar prize to anyone who can show, under proper observing conditions, evidence of any paranormal, supernatural, or occult power or event.” That is what the information page says but not what the rules say. It’s a lie. Bogus. Bogus meaning “deceitful and dishonest”. [/QUOTE] No, you’re perceiving it as a lie, because you’ve not taken the trouble to acquaint yourself with the definition of ‘paranormal’ that is seemingly bloody obvious to everyone on the planet, except you. Why are you the only one arguing your corner? Why does _everyone else_ seem to understand the intent of ‘paranormal’ in this context? ---
**Author:** ![JimOfAllTrades](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@JimOfAllTrades](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JimOfAllTrades)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talking-warts-away/417796/190 "2007-09-04T21:33:24Z")
[QUOTE=Iknewit] I am not surprised or flabberghasted at all. And I did not know what Randi’s definition of “paranormal” was or is. [/quote] But you do know now, correct? And how long did it take you to figure it out? > [@](#): > > Aside from the misuse of that word, the entire statement is a lie. Let me post it again: > > “At JREF, we offer a one-million-dollar prize to anyone who can show, under proper observing conditions, evidence of any paranormal, supernatural, or occult power or event.” > > That is what the information page says but not what the rules say. It’s a lie. Bogus. Bogus meaning “deceitful and dishonest”. When you say “aside from” you mean you think it is a lie even if it uses Randi’s definitions of parnormal and supernatural? What is the lie if you read the statement using what you say is the wrong definition of paranormal? ---
**Author:** ![Iknewit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/4491bb/32.png) [@Iknewit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iknewit)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talking-warts-away/417796/191 "2007-09-04T21:34:11Z")
[QUOTE=Yllaria] The word was not misused, at least not by Randi. And in case you haven’t guessed yet, it would take magic for you to convince us that it was. [/QUOTE] And there we have it. Logic and proof do not equal truth to some. Some require magic to understand the world around them. I personally don’t believe in magic. ---
**Author:** ![Iknewit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/4491bb/32.png) [@Iknewit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iknewit)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talking-warts-away/417796/192 "2007-09-04T21:36:56Z")
[QUOTE=RJKUgly] But you do know now, correct? And how long did it take you to figure it out? When you say “aside from” you mean you think it is a lie even if it uses Randi’s definitions of parnormal and supernatural? What is the lie if you read the statement using what you say is the wrong definition of paranormal? [/QUOTE] I do not know what Randi’s definition of the word “paranormal” is. Perhaps if this discussion and a few dictionaries were pointed out to him he would reconsider it’s use. And as far as your question, induldge me in answering with a question. “If I say pigs can fly” and later admit that my definition of “fly” is actually the what you define as “walk”, is that a lie ? ---
**Author:** ![Iknewit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/4491bb/32.png) [@Iknewit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iknewit)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talking-warts-away/417796/193 "2007-09-04T21:39:49Z")
And also, “show evidence, under proper observing conditions” is a lie. I can show all kinds of evidence. That is not what they want, although it is what they say. They want a demonstration. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talking-warts-away/417796/194 "2007-09-04T21:40:21Z")
[QUOTE=Iknewit] And there we have it. Logic and proof do not equal truth to some. Some require magic to understand the world around them. I personally don’t believe in magic. [/QUOTE] Are you aiming the logic and proof sniff at me? Because you haven’t offered any. As to ‘some require magic’, that’s what the Randi challenge is challenging. If you don’t believe in magic, you’ll just assume that no one will ever be able to prove magic and that the callenge will neverbe met. But you keep going on about this paranormal wart removal. The reason that everyone has been thinking about ways to set up the wart test is that the test needs to be set up so that ONLY A MAGIC REMOVAL OF WARTS MEETS THE CHALLENGE. That’s what the challenge is. If you don’t believe in magic, you have no beef with the challenge. And if you just don’t understand the word paranormal, keep reading that thesaurus until it sinks in. I’m glad your warts went away. (psst, paranormal = magic) ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talking-warts-away/417796/195 "2007-09-04T21:40:48Z")
[QUOTE=Iknewit] I do not know what Randi’s definition of the word “paranormal” is. [/QUOTE] My turn to call bullshit now - if you don’t know this, how is it that you’re so sure some of the things in _your_ category of paranormal things would be dismissed by him as ‘not paranormal’? ---
**Author:** ![Iknewit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/4491bb/32.png) [@Iknewit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iknewit)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talking-warts-away/417796/196 "2007-09-04T21:43:01Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] My turn to call bullshit now - if you don’t know this, how is it that you’re so sure some of the things in _your_ category of paranormal things would be dismissed by him as ‘not paranormal’? [/QUOTE] I am not sure. I suspect but I am not sure. I’m only arguing with the people heere who seem to know what Randi’s definition of paranormal is. ---
**Author:** ![JimOfAllTrades](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@JimOfAllTrades](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JimOfAllTrades)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talking-warts-away/417796/197 "2007-09-04T21:46:53Z")
[QUOTE=Iknewit] I do not know what Randi’s definition of the word “paranormal” is. Perhaps if this discussion and a few dictionaries were pointed out to him he would reconsider it’s use. [/quote] Interesting that everyone else was able to figure it out in about two minutes. Rather than get Randi to change, let’s say we talk about some specifics. I happen to know that Randi considers astrology as paranormal, and dowsing as supernatural, and both are eligible for the challenge. So lets say that paranormal = astrology, and supernatural = dowsing. Using those definitions, is the statement you quoted from Randi’s website a lie? > [@](#): > > And as far as your question, induldge me in answering with a question. “If I say pigs can fly” and later admit that my definition of “fly” is actually the what you define as “walk”, is that a lie ? Assuming I thought you were speaking in good faith, then I’d say poor use of language rather than a lie. And assuming we spent more than 5 minutes working out a protocol to test “flying”, I believe the difference would come to light and we’d have to agree whether or not we each wanted to pursue that test. ---
**Author:** ![Iknewit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/4491bb/32.png) [@Iknewit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iknewit)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talking-warts-away/417796/198 "2007-09-04T21:47:09Z")
[QUOTE=Yllaria] Are you aiming the logic and proof sniff at me? Because you haven’t offered any. As to ‘some require magic’, that’s what the Randi challenge is challenging. If you don’t believe in magic, you’ll just assume that no one will ever be able to prove magic and that the callenge will neverbe met. [/QUOTE] Here you expose the shallow nature of your diction. “Magic” includes illussions. So you think Randi wants illusions ? I think you don’t know what you’re talking about. Psst…take an English course. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talking-warts-away/417796/199 "2007-09-04T21:49:59Z")
[QUOTE=Iknewit] I am not sure. I suspect but I am not sure. I’m only arguing with the people heere who seem to know what Randi’s definition of paranormal is. [/QUOTE] Ok, I want to know what _you_ meant by ‘paranormal’, when you said this: > [@](#): > > I won’t be applying to the Randi test. I have no paranormal powers and I don’t subscribe to them, in general. However, the wart thing came to mind and from there I began to think of the placebo effect. The power of suggestion, faith healing, whatever you wish to call it, is not only widely publicized but widely accepted by science as being a real phenomenon although there is no explanation of it other than “if you believe it, it can happen”. Give people sugar pills and tell them they are drugs and all kinds of things have been healed. Is it paranormal ? Can it be explained by science in certain terms ? (in [Post #12](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8941290&postcount=12) of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Iknewit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/4491bb/32.png) [@Iknewit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iknewit)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talking-warts-away/417796/200 "2007-09-04T21:51:21Z")
[QUOTE=RJKUgly] Interesting that everyone else was able to figure it out in about two minutes. Rather than get Randi to change, let’s say we talk about some specifics. I happen to know that Randi considers astrology as paranormal, and dowsing as supernatural, and both are eligible for the challenge. So lets say that paranormal = astrology, and supernatural = dowsing. Using those definitions, is the statement you quoted from Randi’s website a lie? [/QUOTE] Operating from assumption can produce no valid conclusion. We must operate from the known. I know, you know, webster knows, what paranormal means. Read it again. Maybe it will sink in. [QUOTE=RJKUGLY] Assuming I thought you were speaking in good faith, then I’d say poor use of language rather than a lie. And assuming we spent more than 5 minutes working out a protocol to test “flying”, I believe the difference would come to light and we’d have to agree whether or not we each wanted to pursue that test. [/QUOTE] I’d say a lie. Maybe one made out of ignorance, but still a lie. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talking-warts-away/417796.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/talking-warts-away/417796.md?page=11)