# Tall palm trees **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 27, 2001, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tall-palm-trees/56113 "2001-02-27T22:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2001, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tall-palm-trees/56113/1 "2001-02-27T22:20:08Z")
For 49 years I have lived in or near Los Angeles City, which has countless streets with stands of palm trees 25 feet or more in height, with spindly trunks devoid of fronds, up to a topknot, as if they have been meticulously tended for many years. But are they? Can Los Angeles or any other city afford equipment that reaches higher and higher to trim these exceptionally tall palm trees? (Hey, such equipment would be invaluable in some rescue operations.) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2001, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tall-palm-trees/56113/2 "2001-02-27T22:48:26Z")
Um, how are they different from regular palm trees? You are aware that palm trees just drop the older leaves as they grow, as they put out new leaves at the top? Palm trees need no tending to look the way you describe. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2001, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tall-palm-trees/56113/3 "2001-02-27T23:05:06Z")
That’s what I would have said, Colibri, but evidently there are a number of SoCal City Councils who don’t get it. 😃 [http://www.ci.la-mesa.ca.us/PublicWorks/TrafficSafety.htm](http://www.ci.la-mesa.ca.us/PublicWorks/TrafficSafety.htm) > [@](#): > > This division is also responsible for the trimming of 6,500 street and park trees. The trimming of an additional 1,650 City palm trees is done by a contractor, this work was formerly done in-house. [http://www.ci.la.ca.us/textdata/pwarchiv/20000329.TXT](http://www.ci.la.ca.us/textdata/pwarchiv/20000329.TXT) > [@](#): > > 1. FOR TRIMMING VARIOUS PALM TREES IN THE > PARKWAYS OF AVALON BOULEVARD FROM LOMITA > BOULEVARD TO ANAHEIM STREET AND IN CERTAIN > OTHER STREETS > Estimate: $88,640.00 [http://www.anaheim.net/jobs\_opp/JobPostings/specs/Cs1313.pdf](http://www.anaheim.net/jobs_opp/JobPostings/specs/Cs1313.pdf) [http://www.c21moneyworld.com/freeservices.htm](http://www.c21moneyworld.com/freeservices.htm) > [@](#): > > CENTURY 21 MoneyWorld clients get special pricing on weekly lawn mowing maintenance! TOTAL HOME WORKS can also accommodate your planting needs, trimming your palm trees, and regulating your watering & fertilization to improve your yards appearance! ---
**Author:** ![deb2world](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@deb2world](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deb2world)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2001, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tall-palm-trees/56113/4 "2001-02-27T23:21:22Z")
Yes the palm trees will drop its fronds, but it is usually at an inconvenience time and can do damage. We had a neighbor who didn’t trim their palm trees and whenever the wind would blow the neighborhood looked like a tornado had blown thru. The fronds are also fairly heavy with thorns on the edges thus creating a hazard when they fall. So with that, it is cheaper for the city to trim the palm trees then be liable for the damage costs as well as the possibility that someone could get seriously injured. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2001, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tall-palm-trees/56113/5 "2001-02-27T23:26:24Z")
That makes sense then. Where I live (Panama) no one trims the palms along the streets and sometimes fronds dangle precariously for weeks. I’d hate to be under one when it fell. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2001, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tall-palm-trees/56113/6 "2001-02-27T23:28:28Z")
Cities have found that it’s wiser to trim palm trees than to have nature do it. Nevertheless, during the recent winter storms here in Southern California, many streets have been littered with palm fronds. Eucalyptus trees are another problem tree out here. They tend to drop off large sections without warning and I almost had my car squashed by one such eucalyptus. ---
**Author:** ![wahoo11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8baadc/32.png) [@wahoo11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wahoo11)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2001, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tall-palm-trees/56113/7 "2001-02-27T23:55:00Z")
Those aren’t coconut palms in Southern California,are they? It could be worse. I understand that coconuts falling out of trees on peoples heads in the Carribean cause more deaths than anything other than diseases…hurricanes,sharks,lightning included. ---
**Author:** ![Doobieous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Doobieous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doobieous)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2001, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tall-palm-trees/56113/8 "2001-02-28T01:47:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wahoo11 \* > **Those aren’t coconut palms in Southern California,are they?** No, coconut palms are too cold sensitive to be grown in California. The palms you see in LA are mostly Washingtonia robusta, or Mexican Fan Palms. I am unable to find info on it in my books, but i believe the more mature Mexican fan palms are self shedding. But, the leaves arent very nice, with thorns along the leaf stems, stepping on one with bare feet can hurt (actually the two most popular palms in California, the Mexican Fan, and Canary palm (Phoenix canariensis), both have sharp spines along the leaf stem. In the Canary palm, the lower leaflets are modified into long spines. Mexican and California fan palms look bad if the tree isnt well cared for. I see some ugly ratty ones in my town. Also the thatch of dead leaves can harbor vermin, and are also fire hazards. As for dropping fronds, i hear the fronds of Royal Palms (Roystonea) can weigh 40 lbs. each. These trees ARE self shedding, which makes me wonder if cities that use them to line streets have crews that watch the trees for dead leave so they dont fall and hurt someone. ---
**Author:** ![sethdallob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@sethdallob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sethdallob)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2001, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tall-palm-trees/56113/9 "2001-02-28T02:18:26Z")
All those palm fronds are excellent habitats for all sorts of rats. I’d much rather have em’ up there than down here. ---
**Author:** ![woolly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ebca7d/32.png) [@woolly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woolly)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2001, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tall-palm-trees/56113/10 "2001-02-28T11:34:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BobT \* > \*\*Eucalyptus trees are another problem tree out here. They tend to drop off large sections without warning \*\* Hence the derivation of the legendary drop-bears that inhabit the schlerophyl forests of Australia. ---
**Author:** ![Hooleehootoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/eada6e/32.png) [@Hooleehootoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hooleehootoo)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2004, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tall-palm-trees/56113/11 "2004-08-11T18:38:11Z")
I found this old thread to revive because I have some questions about palms and other trees. Palms are common in southern California, but the other day I was struck that some can be very thin. Is the tallest species in so. Cal the _Washingtonia filifera_, or the _Washingtonia robusta_, or some other? How do you tell the difference between the Washingtonias? What is the tallest palm in Los Angeles? I found an internet reference to the wax palm which it is said can reach 60-70 m. in height. Is there a wax palm in So. Cal? Are palms the “thinnest” of large plants? Some grasses have very large heights relative to their diameter, but you would expect from the square-cube law. that small things are stronger. It seems that the highest tree in the world is a 367 ft. (110 m.) Redwood. The data I find give diameters of 6-7 m. for Redwoods. That is a ratio of 15-1 or so. Palm trees of heights 15-20 m. with diameters of .5 m. seem common. This is a 40-1 ratio. I also find references to \*Eucalyptus regnans \* of heights over 140 m. What diameter do these trees have? ---
**Author:** ![Hooleehootoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/eada6e/32.png) [@Hooleehootoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hooleehootoo)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tall-palm-trees/56113/12 "2004-08-12T20:44:52Z")
Have any fossilized/petrified trees been found that are larger than modern trees? ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tall-palm-trees/56113/13 "2004-08-12T21:26:40Z")
> [@Doobieous](#): > > No, coconut palms are too cold sensitive to be grown in California. The palms you see in LA are mostly Washingtonia robusta, or Mexican Fan Palms. Aren’t most of the palms growing in the desert areas of So Cal date palms? ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tall-palm-trees/56113/14 "2004-08-12T22:24:28Z")
> [@Hooleehootoo](#): > > Are palms the “thinnest” of large plants? Some grasses have very large heights relative to their diameter, but you would expect from the square-cube law. that small things are stronger. > > It seems that the highest tree in the world is a 367 ft. (110 m.) Redwood. The data I find give diameters of 6-7 m. for Redwoods. That is a ratio of 15-1 or so. Palm trees of heights 15-20 m. with diameters of .5 m. seem common. This is a 40-1 ratio. Do you consider bamboo to be a “large” plant? The tallest ones can reach up to 40 m. Diameters can range up to 30 cm. Assuming the tallest plants are the ones with the thickest stems, that’s a ratio of about 133:1. ---
**Author:** ![Hooleehootoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/eada6e/32.png) [@Hooleehootoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hooleehootoo)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tall-palm-trees/56113/15 "2004-08-12T23:15:42Z")
A good example, bamboo. Can a single stalk of that height support itself? I usually think of it growing in a big clump. Do the lower stalks support the highest ones? A Palm tree, being separated, gives more of an impression of thinness. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tall-palm-trees/56113/16 "2004-08-13T14:23:32Z")
Bamboo is pretty strong; it’s used in Hong Kong as construction scaffolding for tall buildings. A large solitary stalk could probably support itself, but would probably blow over if the wind picked up. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Scrivener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@The\_Scrivener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Scrivener)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tall-palm-trees/56113/17 "2004-08-13T16:02:04Z")
A botanist could probably elaborate on this better, but I believe that many palm trees are spindly because they have to be flexible, in order to withstand tropical storms and hurricanes. (This requirement also dovetails with their minimal topiaries; palms offer a fraction of the wind resistance you find with, say, deciduous trees generally.) It’s the “bend, don’t break” flexibility normally associated with fiberglass fishing poles and Olympic gymnasts. You should have seen the “Red Zone” areas in South Florida in the wake of Hurricane Andrew (a Category 4), back in '92. Countless trees were either snapped in two, or yanked out of the ground, roots and all. But mostly these doomed trees were of species introduced to the region: oaks, buschovias, slash pines, citrus and non-citrus fruit trees… It’s Darwinism in action, really. ---
**Author:** ![Doobieous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Doobieous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doobieous)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2004, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tall-palm-trees/56113/18 "2004-08-14T04:27:54Z")
> [@adam yax](#): > > Aren’t most of the palms growing in the desert areas of So Cal date palms? Many are yes, however Palm Springs and the other desert cities with “Palm” in their names are generally named after Washingtonia filifera, the native California fan palm. Surprisingly true date palms (Phoenix dactylifera) isn’t used nearly as much as its cousin the Canary Island Date Palm (Phoenix canariensis). They will grow just fine even up to the coast in California, although you won’t get dates from them unless they’re in the desert. ---
**Author:** ![Doobieous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Doobieous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doobieous)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2004, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tall-palm-trees/56113/19 "2004-08-14T04:44:28Z")
> [@Hooleehootoo](#): > > I found this old thread to revive because I have some questions about palms and other trees. Palms are common in southern California, but the other day I was struck that some can be very thin. Is the tallest species in so. Cal the _Washingtonia filifera_, or the _Washingtonia robusta_, or some other? How do you tell the difference between the Washingtonias? What is the tallest palm in Los Angeles? Washingtonia robusta are the thin trunked fan palms that dominate the Los Angeles skyline. They typically reach heights of 100 feet high. These originate from Mexico. Washingtonia filifera is much shorter (to 60 feet high), with a much bigger crown that is typically more open than W. robusta. Both will form “thatch” which are skirts of dead leaves, but W. filifera’s is much neater in look. W. robusta’s tends to look ratty. > [@](#): > > I found an internet reference to the wax palm which it is said can reach 60-70 m. in height. Is there a wax palm in So. Cal? The Wax palms, Ceroxylon are native to the Andes of South America. They as a group tend to be montane cloudforest palms and a lot are said to dislike hot weather, although the species from the lower slopes of the Andes are suited for So Cal. In Northern California Strybing arboretum has a couple Ceroxylon quindiuense which have leaves to 20 feet long and are beginning to trunk. Before the redwoods were discovered these were thought to be the tallest trees in the world (they can grow to 300 feet high). They are called wax palms due to the wax on the trunks. In Colombia there is a nature preserve with these giants. > [@](#): > > Are palms the “thinnest” of large plants? Some grasses have very large heights relative to their diameter, but you would expect from the square-cube law. that small things are stronger. Well no. Some tropical clumping bamboos have culms to 100 feet high and just 5 inches wide. And no, they don’t use other culms for support (how would the culms on the outside of the clump be supported by the others?). They simply have hard woody tissue. Many palms can have trunks in excess of 4 feet wide (Jubaea chilensis, and Phoenix canariensis) > [@](#): > > It seems that the highest tree in the world is a 367 ft. (110 m.) Redwood. The data I find give diameters of 6-7 m. for Redwoods. That is a ratio of 15-1 or so. Palm trees of heights 15-20 m. with diameters of .5 m. seem common. This is a 40-1 ratio. Part of the thinness of palms is due to the fact that unlike a redwood they do not put on any secondary thickening. They do not continue to grow an ever larger trunk as the plant grows. Typically, once the crown is as wide as is genetically determined, the plant then begins putting on woody tissue and ascending. The palms with the thickest trunks also tend to have the most leaves (Jubaea, Phoenix). Palms have some incredibly hard wood. Phoenix dactylifera has trunks hard enough they can stop a truck crashing into them. ---
**Author:** ![Doobieous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Doobieous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doobieous)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2004, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tall-palm-trees/56113/20 "2004-08-14T04:58:04Z")
> [@The Scrivener](#): > > A botanist could probably elaborate on this better, but I believe that many palm trees are spindly because they have to be flexible, in order to withstand tropical storms and hurricanes. (This requirement also dovetails with their minimal topiaries; palms offer a fraction of the wind resistance you find with, say, deciduous trees generally.) It’s the “bend, don’t break” flexibility normally associated with fiberglass fishing poles and Olympic gymnasts. While for some it is true that they need to withstand hurricanes and strong winds, this is not true for the majority of palms. Many come from deserts, temperate island habitats, mediterranean areas, or rainforests where winds as strong as hurricanes aren’t common. Quite a few do very poorly in high winds, such as Archontophoenix cunninghamiana, which comes from sheltered rainforests. A high wind makes their leaves look absolutely ratty, and Queen Palm (Syagrus romanzoffianum) fronds will break. While on the other hand the Hurricane Palm (Dictyosperma album) is so wind resistant that hurricanes can blow and the tree fares well. The thickness of a palm trunk is due to the amount of leaves the crown has, and the size of the leaves. Fewer leaves means a much thinner trunk. Leaf size also has something to do with it also. The Caryota can be massive (Caryota gigas is huge… 20 foot leaves, but only 6 or so) and their trunks are a few feet wide. Canary Island date palms are thick trunked because the crown holds up to twenty 10 foot long leaves. While Areca triandra has several dainty leaves and is thin trunked. Also palms only begin to trunk after the crown has reached its maximum amount of leaves it holds at one time. Palms do not put on secondary growth like trees such as maples do. Once the crown reaches the amount of leaves it ever will have, it’s not going to get any wider since it’s not putting on more wood Also wind resistance is high in many palms because they have many single fine roots that they constantly send out throughout their lives. They radiate outwards and act sort of like guy wires… they help to brace the palm. Palm trunks are also like a pipe filled with smaller pipes. This is what helps make them incredibly strong. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tall-palm-trees/56113.md?page=2)