# "Tanned ... darker than our president" - perfectly OK? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 8, 2009, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tanned-darker-than-our-president-perfectly-ok/520472 "2009-12-08T17:58:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tanned-darker-than-our-president-perfectly-ok/520472/21 "2009-12-08T18:38:13Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > I guess this is putting too much thought into it, but is it okay to say: > > -You are tanned darker than (name of a specific dark-skinned person) > -You are tanned darker than “a person of mixed race” > -You are tanned darker than “an African American” > > Does the appropriateness depend on your audience or the situation? I think it depends on how well you know the person. If a white person I didn’t know that well or disliked said any of the above to me, it would piss me off. ---
**Author:** ![Heart\_of\_Dorkness](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/4bbf92/32.png) [@Heart\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heart_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tanned-darker-than-our-president-perfectly-ok/520472/22 "2009-12-08T18:39:43Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Ha! I do mean Ripley. Who the hell is Huxley? ::smack:: Hah! Now it’s my turn: :smack: Thinking you might be making a joke, I thought of [Aldous Huxley](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldous_Huxley), author of _Brave New World_, and switched his name in my mind with [Alex Haley](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Haley), author of _Roots_. Which would have been funny. Let’s pretend that’s what actually happened. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tanned-darker-than-our-president-perfectly-ok/520472/23 "2009-12-08T18:48:29Z")
Eh. Given the source, it may well have been intended to get a rise out of someone, but the comment on its own doesn’t offend me in the least. Obama seems like a reasonable person to compare skin tones with. -Asimovian, who is approximately as dark as our President (except during baseball season, when I’m a shade darker) ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tanned-darker-than-our-president-perfectly-ok/520472/24 "2009-12-08T18:52:13Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Cool. > I guess this is putting too much thought into it, but is it okay to say: > > -You are tanned darker than (name of a specific dark-skinned person) > -You are tanned darker than “a person of mixed race” > -You are tanned darker than “an African American” > > Does the appropriateness depend on your audience or the situation? It all depends on what you’re going for. If you’re making a hyperbolic statement, I recommend specificity. Something like “He’s so tan I mistook him for Charlie Murphy” is funny without being offensive. On the other hand, “He’s so tan that I mistook him for Obama” falls short because Obama is not dark in an absolute sense and suggests the speaker is inordinately color struck. “He’s so tan that I mistook him for a black guy” is okay to me, too, but it may put some people on the alert for a black joke (…“but when he didn’t greet me in jive I realized it was him”). It wouldn’t bother me, though. In a non-hyperbolic sense, I don’t see the problem using any person–black, mixed, or none of the above–as a reference point. “How dark was your son?” “Oh, a little darker than Obama.” That’s the intent I assumed behind **Shodan’s** usage. Not hyperbole. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tanned-darker-than-our-president-perfectly-ok/520472/25 "2009-12-08T18:56:38Z")
> [@Heart\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Let’s pretend that’s what actually happened. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tanned-darker-than-our-president-perfectly-ok/520472/26 "2009-12-08T18:58:02Z")
> [@torie](#): > > I’m not…entirely…comfortable with the descriptor used. I certainly don’t think it was a ‘perfectly decent’ one. > > But wasn’t Shodan the one who made it clear that he was going to do his damndest to get a rise out of all the Libs for the next four years, since he’s stuck with that deep dark president? Maybe this is part of that? I don’t know, I don’t think it’s worth getting worked up over. I mean, I really want to be happy with him that his son is ok but that descriptor was so jarring I just hit ‘back’ on the browser. This is pretty much how I feel. And I am a brown person who is determined to get people to use more color descriptors; after all, I am brown and there is no getting around it. This case was a little odd, though. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tanned-darker-than-our-president-perfectly-ok/520472/27 "2009-12-08T18:59:37Z")
Dark skinned person here (about a George Lopez on the Celebrity Color Wheel, though not Hispanic). No problem with the reference whatsoever. Probably worth noting that **you with the face is black** , for anyone who doesn’t know. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tanned-darker-than-our-president-perfectly-ok/520472/28 "2009-12-08T19:02:02Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > It does kind of give one the impression that Obama’s skin color is so dark that to be darker than him is to stray into Huxley’s Believe it or Not territory. But that’s not offensive, just unconvincing. Obama is no Sidney Poitier. Thats an absurd interpretation IMO. Its not that the son is “blacker than black”. Its that he is (I assume) a white or at least whitesh dude who is so tan than he is darker than a half black man, that if somebody didnt tell you, you wouldnt know was half white. Or, in other words, when a white dude is so tan he is darker than a “black man”, even a somewhat “pale” one, the white dude is T A N. He doesnt need to be blacker than coal for it to be impressive. ---
**Author:** ![lindsaybluth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/90db22/32.png) [@lindsaybluth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lindsaybluth)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tanned-darker-than-our-president-perfectly-ok/520472/29 "2009-12-08T19:03:17Z")
I don’t know **Shodan** ’s politics well, but regardless, you guys are being way too sensitive. I have always liked your posts quite bit **Dinsdale** , but the red flag here is that growing up, you were exposed to a ton of racism and now you’re always on guard to prevent such thoughts and reactions. It has to do with degree of comfort. I’ve seen this in my immediate friends (who grew up with racist parents) who won’t joke along when I make references to my own skin tone “I missed the beach weekend, and I’m whiter than you now!” etc. People who grew up in metropolitan areas or in communities sans blatant racism are much more relaxed about joking about things. It’s also an age thing as well. Friends around my age (early 20’s) are much more likely to make jokes about religion and race than friends in their 30’s and much more so than people (my parents’ age) in their 50’s. I know real racism when I see it, and it’s ALWAYS about intent, not about the comment. - **lindsaybluth** , a half-indian half latina, always mistaken for something entirely different. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tanned-darker-than-our-president-perfectly-ok/520472/30 "2009-12-08T19:05:20Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > It does kind of give one the impression that Obama’s skin color is so dark that to be darker than him is to stray into Huxley’s Believe it or Not territory. But that’s not offensive, just unconvincing. Obama is no Sidney Poitier. See, I think that’s not the point, though. Obama is black (by whatever definition you want to give. He has African heritage and has dark_er_ skin). Shodan and his son (I’m assuming) are white. If Standard White Dude gets so tan that his skin is darker than a light-skinned African American, I can understand the comparison since SWD is nowhere near as dark usually. It’s no value judgment on skin color and not implying that Obama is Super Dark. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tanned-darker-than-our-president-perfectly-ok/520472/31 "2009-12-08T19:10:15Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Probably worth noting that **you with the face is black** , for anyone who doesn’t know. Me too, me too! I’m one of the cool kids! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tanned-darker-than-our-president-perfectly-ok/520472/32 "2009-12-08T19:11:59Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Or, in other words, when a white dude is so tan he is darker than a “black man”, even a somewhat “pale” one, the white dude is T A N. He doesnt need to be blacker than coal for it to be impressive. So you’re saying any white person darker than [Harold Ford](http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://blogs.nashvillescene.com/pitw/aaaharoldford.jpg&imgrefurl=http://blogs.nashvillescene.com/pitw/2008/04/harold.php&usg=__uxBcl871ephhQPCiKYalhuIELl8=&h=273&w=417&sz=14&hl=en&start=2&sig2=AvRmCM_B7HHpF4Ui04wWwg&um=1&tbnid=BtBfH3rr_OrezM:&tbnh=82&tbnw=125&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dharold%2Bford%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Dactive%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1&ei=RaQeS7mlKIiVtge624SlCg) is impressively dark? Congratulations, you just won The Most Absurd Post of the Day contest. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tanned-darker-than-our-president-perfectly-ok/520472/33 "2009-12-08T19:12:02Z")
> [@zweisamkeit](#): > > . It’s no value judgment on skin color and not implying that Obama is Super Dark. Super Dark ? Sounds like a new super hero to me 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tanned-darker-than-our-president-perfectly-ok/520472/34 "2009-12-08T19:15:11Z")
> [@zweisamkeit](#): > > It’s no value judgment on skin color and not implying that Obama is Super Dark. I don’t think that was the intent, either. (Did you read the rest of what I’ve written in this thread?) ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tanned-darker-than-our-president-perfectly-ok/520472/35 "2009-12-08T19:15:23Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > So you’re saying any white person darker than [Harold Ford](http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://blogs.nashvillescene.com/pitw/aaaharoldford.jpg&imgrefurl=http://blogs.nashvillescene.com/pitw/2008/04/harold.php&usg=__uxBcl871ephhQPCiKYalhuIELl8=&h=273&w=417&sz=14&hl=en&start=2&sig2=AvRmCM_B7HHpF4Ui04wWwg&um=1&tbnid=BtBfH3rr_OrezM:&tbnh=82&tbnw=125&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dharold%2Bford%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Dactive%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1&ei=RaQeS7mlKIiVtge624SlCg) is impressively dark? > > Congratulations, you just won The Most Absurd Post of the Day contest. When you get tired of that trophy sitting on your mantle day after day, just mail it to me then. I"ll make sure to mail it right back the following day. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tanned-darker-than-our-president-perfectly-ok/520472/36 "2009-12-08T19:17:41Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > When you get tired of that trophy sitting on your mantle day after day, just mail it to me then. I"ll make sure to mail it right back the following day. Lame. Try again. ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tanned-darker-than-our-president-perfectly-ok/520472/37 "2009-12-08T19:22:35Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > In an [MPSIMS thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=542945), a poster started a thread to report that his son had come home from Iraq. In that thread, the poster commented > > Do you think this is _“a perfectly decent descriptor”_ (as another poster said after I posted :rolleyes:)? > > Does it matter whether the person who made the original reference to Obama’s skin color has never hidden his strong dislike for seemingly every aspect of Obama’s campaign or his current administration? What’s perfectly INDECENT is you threadshitting in Shodan’s thread. Shodan is rightfully overjoyed that his son, who he loves is home and safe. So even if his description isn’t “perfectly decent” (whatever that means), he can be forgiven it considering how he feels. As a parent of two grown men myself, I fully understand Shodan’s feelings. Perhaps instead of starting crap, you can just let it go. ---
**Author:** ![torie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@torie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/torie)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tanned-darker-than-our-president-perfectly-ok/520472/38 "2009-12-08T19:26:39Z")
> [@tacoloco](#): > > What’s perfectly INDECENT is you threadshitting in Shodan’s thread. > > Shodan is rightfully overjoyed that his son, who he loves is home and safe. So even if his description isn’t “perfectly decent” (whatever that means), he can be forgiven it considering how he feels. I understand his feelings, and I really am happy that Shodan’s son didn’t get hurt attempting to defend America. But nothing gives anyone a pass on racism, IMO. (Not saying that Shodan’s comment was, just explaining it from Dinsdale’s POV.) My mother was abused by a black man for 5 years, it’s still not acceptable for me to call him a ‘nigger’, no matter how many people may understand the sentiment. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tanned-darker-than-our-president-perfectly-ok/520472/39 "2009-12-08T19:27:31Z")
> [@lindsaybluth](#): > > … **Dinsdale** , but the red flag here is that growing up, you were exposed to a ton of racism and now you’re always on guard to prevent such thoughts and reactions. It is always so hard to tell exactly racist/sexist/whatever people were at different times. The biggest difference I see between when I was a kid in the 60s and when my kids were young in the 90s, is how color/ethinicity blind they are - which I truly consider one of the most positive social developments I can personally perceive. When I was a kid on the NW side of Chicago, I’m not sure how “prejudiced” we were, but it was the norm to describe someone by their ethnicity, religion/parish, etc. It was pretty much just a descriptor. Of course, looking back at it I’m pretty sure we could feel we did not feel badly towards blacks and hispanics - so long as they stayed out of our neighborhood! The I went to high school in a different neighborhood, and ran track where I was very friendly with many black guys. We hung out at each others’ houses, readily calling each other “nigger”… Then I go to college where there are separate white and black fraternities. As years pass I get people pissed when I use the term black instead of African-American. Women act upset if I express a pleasantry complimenting their attire or appearance. Maybe I am a little overly on guard. But when in the first 1/2 of your life you see the accepted phrasing go through nigger/negro/black/african american - yeah, I’m probably a little hesitant to make any reference to an individual’s skin color, and instead simply think or - and refer to them - as a person. And - like I said - given that poster there is no way he used that term as an innocent descriptor, which I thought BS in that thread. But I should have passed it by. ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tanned-darker-than-our-president-perfectly-ok/520472/40 "2009-12-08T19:33:19Z")
> [@torie](#): > > I understand his feelings, and I really am happy that Shodan’s son didn’t get hurt attempting to defend America. > > But nothing gives anyone a pass on racism, IMO. (Not saying that Shodan’s comment was, just explaining it from Dinsdale’s POV.) My mother was abused by a black man for 5 years, it’s still not acceptable for me to call him a ‘nigger’, no matter how many people may understand the sentiment. My entire issue here is that Dinsdale didn’t need to bring it up in Shodan’s thread. The :rolleyes: thing was disrespectful of the intent of the thread. Let Shodan enjoy it without pissing on his head. A thread like this one, OTOH, is entirely appropriate. I would have preferrred if he left Shodan’s politics out of it, however. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tanned-darker-than-our-president-perfectly-ok/520472.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tanned-darker-than-our-president-perfectly-ok/520472.md?page=3)