# "Tanned ... darker than our president" - perfectly OK? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 8, 2009, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tanned-darker-than-our-president-perfectly-ok/520472 "2009-12-08T17:58:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tanned-darker-than-our-president-perfectly-ok/520472/141 "2009-12-09T18:12:20Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > Also, I’m not about to go into that linked thread, but was the conversation that white men didn’t rape black women back in slavery days? You know, I had always taken that as a given. It just occurs to me that I have just taken that for granted based on…I don’t know. Maybe I did get those kinds of ideas from movies like Mandingo! I guess it depends on how you define rape. They might not have struggled or whatever, but you can’t very well give consent if you’re defined as property. ---
**Author:** ![torie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@torie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/torie)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tanned-darker-than-our-president-perfectly-ok/520472/142 "2009-12-09T18:22:51Z")
> [@tacoloco](#): > > You made the assertion that Shodan said it. It’s YOUR job to find the relevant post(s). > > Don’t make accusations unless you’re prepared to back it up. She also said that he hadn’t actually stated it, but agreed with it. There’s not much difference, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tanned-darker-than-our-president-perfectly-ok/520472/143 "2009-12-09T18:28:17Z")
**Shodan** , I’m glad to hear your son is home safe. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tanned-darker-than-our-president-perfectly-ok/520472/144 "2009-12-09T18:41:22Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > [You’re an idiot who obvious can’t read very well.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7431221&postcount=824) I’m sorry, but that is Huerta88, not Shodan. You do understand how usernames work, right? Maybe I better explain. People pick different names so that what they write and post can be identified easily. That way people don’t mistakenly or purposefully ascribe opinions and content to the wrong people. So when a user named Huerta88 writes something, everybody knows that it is that poster, and not somebody else, like say, for example, Shodan. ---
**Author:** ![lalenin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@lalenin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lalenin)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tanned-darker-than-our-president-perfectly-ok/520472/145 "2009-12-09T18:43:06Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > So I don’t see it being a huge cause for celebration that one less hawk (and his family) have managed to avoid getting killed or injured (yet.) Wow, you’re an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tanned-darker-than-our-president-perfectly-ok/520472/146 "2009-12-09T19:02:11Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > Maybe I better explain. No, maybe you shouldn’t. You first accused _me_ of making the statement and attributing it to him. But instead of owning up to that mistake and apologizing for your stupidass mistake when I show you that you’re wrong, you are choosing to dig yourself further into the idiot hole. From the start I said he wasn’t the first person to make that accusation. Okay? Your attempt to play gotcha ya is a fail. ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tanned-darker-than-our-president-perfectly-ok/520472/147 "2009-12-09T19:07:55Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > No, maybe you shouldn’t. You first accused _me_ of making the statement and attributing it to him. But instead of owning up to that mistake and apologizing for your stupidass mistake when I show you that you’re wrong, you are choosing to dig yourself further into the idiot hole. > > From the start I said he wasn’t the first person to make that accusation. Okay? Your attempt to play gotcha ya is a fail. Grow up. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tanned-darker-than-our-president-perfectly-ok/520472/148 "2009-12-09T19:10:15Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Just why would anyone be _disappointed_ at the notion that their demographic group isn’t frequently raped by white men? Because, as was mentioned in the thread, you wanted your grievance. It allows you to play the victim card, and complain that black women are the victims of racism, and so on. Since it turns out that black-on-white rape is so rare as to be statistically almost undetectable, that argument falls over. Which upsets those who are used to winning a debate every time they play the race card, and explains why you were/are so desperate to find something else to shore it up. > [@](#): > > The idea suggests that it’s something of a compliment to have a white man attack a black woman in that way. Again, this is something you made up and assigned to others. > [@](#): > > No, it wasn’t. The thread started out about the Durham rape allegation and evolved into a trainwreck when one poster started pontificating about how he suspected the allegation was false because the accuser was black and the accused were white. I challenged him on this specious reasoning and…well, trainwreck ensued. Pretty close - the trainwreck followed your attempts to argue that when you hear hoofbeats, it is just as likely to be zebras as horses. Even standing in the middle of the farking OK Corral. The other thing that you couldn’t seem to get over was that sure enough, exactly what was expected turned out to be the case. White-on-black rape is quite rare, especially in Durham NC. > [@](#): > > Like this [one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7432291&postcount=833) where you wrote: > > “His assertion” refers to the idea that I wanted black women to be “slavemaster-style” raped more often. No, that you were disappointed to find out that it was not the case, because it blew holes in your notion that refusal to believe that an unlikely event is unlikely must be because of racism. You made the assertion that anyone who searches for data on race and crime must be doing so out of racist motives - > [@you with the face](#): > > Quick question: What would prompt someone to go searching for racial crime data if not the pre-conceived belief that race determines behavior? That particular assumption is the given that I’m talking about. I don’t recall if that was before or after you or one of your cohort lied about not calling anyone racist, but that was in there somewhere too. > [@](#): > > I could ask you do provide a cite showing where I said _anything_ in that thread that suggested I wanted to be “slave-master” raped, but why bother? There’s nothing there to support that nasty assertion and we both know it. What you made clear was that you were disappointed that white-on-black rape was extremely rare. That’s why you posted the foolishness about how anyone who does any analysis of race in relation to crime has to be doing so out of the idea that blacks are inherently prone to crime. You did this as a way to dismiss the DoJ evidence that white on black rape is almost vanishingly rare. You had an idea in your head, and were bound and determined to cling to it no matter what. You posted this - > [@](#): > > Why would a bunch of white guys go out of their way to hire not one but two black women to perform for them, if race mattered so much to them in a sexually repellent way? This was well after it was pointed out that the lacrosse team called the service from which they hired the strippers to complain that the strippers were black. Did this fact interrupt you? Nor for a moment. You were throwing out straw as hard as you could. It seems rather obvious that you were frantically, not to say desperately, doing your damndest to argue that the LW in question was actually credible. It was rather obvious then, and became increasingly so, that she was not. You, however, clung to the notion that somehow or other, racism must have been involved. If not by the lacrosse team, then by some of the several who kept correcting you. And also by me, who mostly just laughed at you, once it was clear that you were beyond reason. > [@Really Not All That Bright](#): > > Shodan, I’m glad to hear your son is home safe. Thank you. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tanned-darker-than-our-president-perfectly-ok/520472/149 "2009-12-09T19:40:55Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > No, maybe you shouldn’t. You first accused _me_ of making the statement and attributing it to him. But instead of owning up to that mistake and apologizing for your stupidass mistake when I show you that you’re wrong, you are choosing to dig yourself further into the idiot hole. > > From the start I said he wasn’t the first person to make that accusation. Okay? Your attempt to play gotcha ya is a fail. Frantically waving your hands around for distraction isn’t helping. You still haven’t provided a cite where \*\*Shodan \*\*said you wanted to be raped by a white man, like you said here: > [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > I seem to remember him saying in the past that I wanted to be raped by a white man. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tanned-darker-than-our-president-perfectly-ok/520472/150 "2009-12-09T19:48:31Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I guess it depends on how you define rape. They might not have struggled or whatever, but you can’t very well give consent if you’re defined as property. Yeah, I didn’t understand the whole “slavemaster” thing. Because of today’s statistics, we’re supposed to believe that there was no rape going on by white slave owners on black slave women? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tanned-darker-than-our-president-perfectly-ok/520472/151 "2009-12-09T20:20:26Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Since it turns out that black-on-white rape is so rare as to be statistically almost undetectable… If you’re talking about _white-on-black_ rape as I’m assuming you are, you’re wrong. This was repeatedly pointed out to you, by people other than myself, but you insist on believing an absurdity. (I guess that this is proof my disappointment, huh?) Not that this had _anything_ to do what I was talking about in that thread anyway. And I still believe that if someone uses a person’s race to discredit a rape allegation and justifies themselves by erroneously applying racial crime statistics, they are being racist. Yeah, I do. And I could give a damn if that hurts your feelings. ---
**Author:** ![Lionne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Lionne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lionne)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tanned-darker-than-our-president-perfectly-ok/520472/152 "2009-12-09T20:42:29Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > Frantically waving your hands around for distraction isn’t helping. You still haven’t provided a cite where \*\*Shodan \*\*said you wanted to be raped by a white man, like you said here: You forgot to include a relevant part of that same post by **you with the face** : > [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > I seem to remember him saying in the past that I wanted to be raped by a white man, and that I was disappointed that white-on-black rape wasn’t more common. Because I’m black, you see, and what black woman wouldn’t be flattered by a white man raping them? **Another poster was actually the first to say it, but he chimed in agreement.** Bolding mine. ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tanned-darker-than-our-president-perfectly-ok/520472/153 "2009-12-09T20:44:26Z")
> [@Lionne](#): > > You forgot to include a relevant part of that same post by **you with the face** : > Bolding mine. Let’s see the actual post where Shodan does that. This whole thing is weak. You the face isn’t willing to do the homework. It’s bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tanned-darker-than-our-president-perfectly-ok/520472/154 "2009-12-09T20:47:03Z")
> [@dinsdale](#): > > So I don’t see it being a huge cause for celebration that one less hawk (and his family) have managed to avoid getting killed or injured (yet.) Let me get this straight. You can’t stand a guy because you don’t like his ideology, so that somehow gives you a license to suspend all civility and sense of common decency when dealing with him? Kind of sounds like Bush’s rationale for greenlighting the torture of POWs. You have met the enemy and he is… you. ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tanned-darker-than-our-president-perfectly-ok/520472/155 "2009-12-09T20:56:59Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > Let me get this straight. You can’t stand a guy because you don’t like his ideology, so that somehow gives you a license to suspend all civility and sense of common decency when dealing with him? > > Kind of sounds like Bush’s rationale for greenlighting the torture of POWs. > > You have met the enemy and he is… you. But… But.. Shodan started it.:eek: ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tanned-darker-than-our-president-perfectly-ok/520472/156 "2009-12-09T21:04:47Z")
Gotta love the ad here. The Barack Obama bronze collectors busts. If only Shodan had used the word bronze instead. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tanned-darker-than-our-president-perfectly-ok/520472/157 "2009-12-09T21:13:18Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > If you’re talking about _white-on-black_ rape as I’m assuming you are, you’re wrong. Yes, white-on-black. My bad. However, I am not wrong. > [@Huerta88](#): > > To wit, in the Criminal Victimization in the United States, 2003, Statistical Tables (as provided by DOJ – [http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/cvus0302.pdf](http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/cvus0302.pdf)) we seem to learn that (Table 42, page 32 of my link) in a recent year in the United States, the percentage of black women (black people, actually, as it’s not broken down by sex) who reported a rape or sexual assault (or a mere verbal threat thereof), and who further reported that their assailant was (or appeared to be) white was . . . wait for it . . . zero (or so close to zero as to be statistically a rounding error – “zero percent” was listed if there were fewer than ten reports of a particular category of incident). And it’s not as though black women weren’t reporting a large absolute number of rapes – they reported 24,000+, the vast majority (~88%) of which they alleged were by black guys, the rest by “other than black or white”). > [@](#): > > This was repeatedly pointed out to you, by people other than myself Also not correct. > [@Greathouse](#): > > The numbers do not support the alleged victim’s claim because they show a very, very small number of rapes are white men attacking a black woman. Of course, you also said that [no one could reliably determine the incidence of rape in the USA](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7445767&postcount=1143), so it is pretty obvious that you want to turn your faith in statistics on and off, depending on whether or not you can use it to accuse people who are whaling the tar out of your arguments racist. > [@](#): > > And I still believe that if someone uses a person’s race to discredit a rape allegation and justifies themselves by erroneously applying racial crime statistics, they are being racist. Yeah, I do. And I could give a damn if that hurts your feelings. No worries, I’m fine. Being called racist doesn’t usually bother me anymore. Too many times when it was used the way you have. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tanned-darker-than-our-president-perfectly-ok/520472/158 "2009-12-09T21:47:16Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Yes, white-on-black. My bad. However, I am not wrong. [Yes, you are wrong](http://sbi2.jus.state.nc.us/crp/public/2008/IndOffTrd/Rape/RapeRacAnal08/RapeRacAnal08.htm). It took me two minutes to pull up this link above from North Carolina’s crime registry. The methodology used by the DoJ was not sensitive enough to assess crimes falling below a certain frequency in the greater US population. Black women comprise about 6% of the total population, so their rate of victimization is going to be difficult to assess using a telephone survey. But that doesn’t mean those crimes are “vanishingly rare”. All one has to go to a state where there is a relatively large black populace and this becomes obvious. And yes, this was pointed out several times in that thread. Who the hell knows why it was disregarded. Probably because it was infinitely more entertaining for you and others to bray like donkeys over what is a misinterpretation of crime statistics, than to actually deal with stuff like facts and logic. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tanned-darker-than-our-president-perfectly-ok/520472/159 "2009-12-09T22:25:59Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > Frantically waving your hands around for distraction isn’t helping. You still haven’t provided a cite where \*\*Shodan \*\*said you wanted to be raped by a white man, like you said here: > [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > I seem to remember him saying in the past that I wanted to be raped by a white man, and that I was disappointed that white-on-black rape wasn’t more common. Because I’m black, you see, and what black woman wouldn’t be flattered by a white man raping them? Another poster was actually the first to say it, but he chimed in agreement. Prediction: **you with the face** will never, ever link to that specific post by **Shodan** , and yet will never ever admit she was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tanned-darker-than-our-president-perfectly-ok/520472/160 "2009-12-09T22:43:05Z")
Actually, in the thread being referenced, **Huerta88** was the first to say that he felt that **you with the face** would be happier if white-on-black rape were more common, and then later on in the thread, **Shodan** said that based on **you with the face** ’s subsequent posts, he was inclined to agree with **Huerta88** on this topic. [Shodan’s post.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7432291&postcount=833) Wow, what an incredibly ugly thread that was. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tanned-darker-than-our-president-perfectly-ok/520472.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tanned-darker-than-our-president-perfectly-ok/520472.md?page=9)