I agree that the CNN/AP story’s claim that black leaders are outraged actually quotes only person. I also agree that the several (presumeably black) people quoted in the BET piece aren’t exactly national names. But it’s clear that they didn’t like term.
Both articles use the word “outrage”. And this has been getting so much press (not just in these two places) that Romney saw the need to apologize.
So I guess there are two logical possibilities. Either blacks (in general or as represented by their leaders) are outraged, or the mainstream news media fabricated a story to tar * a Republican political candidate.
When I first read these reports, I accepted what these articles said and believed it was the first of these alternatives. But some people have made some good points here about the lack of solid cites to identifiable leaders. So if there’s no “outrage”, where did these stories come from?
Which do you think it is?
*Sorry, that really is the first word that came to mind. I replaced it with another word, but it didn’t have the connotation of “unfairly accuse” that I wanted, so I went back to my first thought.
I apologize, I was referring to the term. I never considered using the term as anything other than the tar baby described in the story.
It is a fairly common perception that southerners are raging racists and that any indication of “southern pride” is a euphemism for “racist.” It often saddens me when I see a culture that I am proud to be a part of be painted with such a broad brush, I was more conscious of this phenomenon in this thread than I would normally be. I was not trying to come off as “I have plenty of black friends.” But merely trying to differentiate me from a sheet wearing southern fruitcake. If you could see my rear end, you would know as well as I that any racism on my part would definitely being the pot calling the kettle black (or African-american for that matter). I suppose it is a prejudice that I am as aware of, whereas, using the phrase Tar Baby in a perjorative phrase is just not in my frame of reference, although I am certain anything sufficiently dark would serve those purposes. As humans, we don’t particularly lack the ability to put others down, for whatever reason.
I don’t know that I have ever heard a black person refer to someone as white trash. IME, it has always been the caspers that use it.
FWIW, the Ace of Spades is the highest ranking card and Spades is the highest suit in the deck, in poker and in spades. Which is why it cracks me up that “black as the ace of spades” could be construed as a bad phrase.
Fabricate is probably too strong of a word, but it wouldn’t surprise me if the media went out of their way to blow this story out of proportion. “Outrage” is language that conjures up images of pickets and petitions and protests, and none of that was really evident in the article. The tendency of reporters to sensationalize anything remotely related to race causes me to regard articles like this with a distrustful eye.
Are some posters suggesting that we should no longer use “tar baby” in its primary sense because it is occasionally used as an epithet in a secondary sense?
So does this mean we can also no longer use the terms “spook” and “spade” in their primary, non-racist meanings, and must simply abandon the words? That’s where your logic takes you.
I would rather not surrender this phrase so easily. It is a very useful metaphor. Hell, I’m sure I’ve probably used it on these boards in discussions of Iraq. I hope no one took undue offense.
Like tom, I begin to suspect that “tarbaby” must get a lot more use among blacks as a derogatory term than it does among whites. I’ve never heard it used that way in real life, and I promise you it’s not because I’ve never been around racists. So no condescending remarks about my sheltered life, Askia.
Poll for black posters: Has a white person ever used the term against you? Was the white person a Southerner or Northerner (if you know). Please give us details.
Oh, I get it. So, if something anyone says, can be deemed offensive by someone else, no matter what the intent or etymology, it is verboten, period. The standard is, there are no standards, then. Everyone has the right not to be offended, then, is the ultimate logical extension. Logic being the tool to oppress, of course /s See where this nonsense leads? This is why “political correctness” is so danged evil. It’s intellectual cancer.
The only intellectual cancer, is the refusal to accept what people who may have either by regional or culture tell you they have direct experience with. No one here has asked for the baning of the word tar baby. No one here as far as I can tell is offended by it, nor calling for heads to roll
All that’s being offered, is that there are some of us who are familiar with the term being used as a racist one and that you and others should at least respect that.
If that’s too much for you to do, then by all means consider yourself the defender of free speech.
That’s it. It’s just a matter of sharing a little of our experiences; take or leave it.
I see the apology not as an admission of horrible racist behavior, but rather an acknowledgment that using this archaic term has other meanings than the one he meant, and that he’ll be more careful in the future. (Yes, I’m reading a little more into it.)
It was also one of those “I’m sorry if anyone was offended” apologies. If it bothered you, Mr. Black Republican in Iowa, then I’m sorry. If it didn’t… whatever. If the term really bothered me that wouldn’t work as an apology. But it seems more of a “I didn’t know that some people would take it badly, my bad” sort of comment.
I don’t know if he was unaware of racist connotations of the term.
English is a broad and colorful language, with lots of ways to describe any number of activities. In the comfort of one’s family and friends, we should feel free to exercise the diversity and depth of the language to our heart’s content, knowing that if we accidentally (or purposely) cross a line, we have considerable goodwill from the audience and a willingness from them to forgive our excesses (sometimes). In the public arena, I might gauge my use of some words differently. I think Mitt’s been given a fairly innocuous opportunity to learn this lesson.
There is considerable media sensationalization going on though. Fox 25 here in Boston just had a story where the anchor stated that tar baby was a term that “some consider racist.” But they provided no cites. The Black people interviewed ranged from “what the hell does it mean?” to “couldn’t he have found a better term to use?” No accusations of racism leveled. One man did say that it made him think the governor was unaware that he represents people who don’t look like him.
I wonder if Mitt would have used the tar baby term if he was giving the speech at the National Association of Black Journalists’ convention?
It would, indeed. It would also, however, be interesting to see an actual citation for that claim. I’m sure the editors of the O.E.D. would be delighted to see one, as well.
I do note that even that site indicates the more general (and, I would infer, derogatory) application to blacks dates to the 1940s, consistent with the O.E.D.'s citation.
When I was in college the college president caused a stir by using the term “woolly headed intellectual”. He meant it to be a reflection on the overly liberal, politically correct nature of some of the people in the school. Others took it as referring to kinky hair, event though all of the targets of the jibe were white.
First off, I was referring to more than this one incident. Both articles linked to in this thread use the term “outrage” to describe the reactions, and I’ve seen such stories before. Perhaps the problem is more with the standard reporter lexicon. Nobody has called Romney a racist, but the implication is undeniably there. What most of the people quoted in the BET article say is that he’s out of touch, so sheltered that he doesn’t know “tar baby” is a racial slur. This leaves the implication of racism (with deniability), but focuses on a more believable accusation.
Politics and reporting are constantly making mountains of molehills, and this is the same thing.
I’m so fucking sick of this argument. It’s not the words that are offensive. It’s the heartfelt emotion behind them. I’m sure Mit Romney really didn’t mean anything by his statement, as he clearly stated he was referring to the other definition. I think The Black Community was silly to make a big deal out of it when he was simply out of touch with the reality of the term. He made a mistake and I certainly don’t think he meant any harm by it.
But that doesn’t mean the term hasn’t been used as an insult to blacks for a very long time. Yes, it’s gone by the wayside for the most part, but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s an insult. And any racist who uses the term and then hides behind the “oh my god the PC thing has gone too far” argument is arguing unconvincingly. If you’re not a racist, don’t use the term. Then we’ll be able to tell the good guys from the bad guys.
Well, as soon as someone provides a list of all the unacceptable terms.
I grew up about 11 miles away from Mit Romney and I’m only three years younger than he is. Until he was criticized on this issue, I had only heard the term outside its Brer Rabbit/sticky mess construct once in my life–and never as a pejorative.
I think that the extremes on both sides of the “PC” claims are idiots–calling drunks “water buffaloes” is not a racist slur while it is not “PC run amok” to refrain from calling a black child a pickaninny–however, there needs to be a certain amount of slack cut for the fact that there are expressions that have different meanings in different contexts and that not everyone is going to be aware of those meanings.
I think I see where you’re coming from. But the reality is that this really didn’t seem to register as much of a story from anyone, save the Black Republican guy. It seems that there was incredulousity from people that he would use a term that has the potential to be taken the wrong way. I think it’s fair to say that someone a little more well-versed in politics, like perhaps Bill Clinton, who is comfortable with Black folks, would probably not use that term to describe the situation.
That’s not racism, though. It’s just being out of touch with a segment of the populace. The underlying message here is that Romney appears to be the scion of a political family, completely disconnected from the everyday lives of real people. And this is sounding like a news story for a slow day, or perhaps someone with political interests that coincide with Romney’s (a McCain or Allen supporter perhaps?) thought this might be an “interesting” story.
I’ve never heard of the meaning Romney was referring to until this incident. I’ve always equated “tar baby” with “pickaninny” as far as intensity of the slur goes. All I’m saying is if there is an offensive meaning to a word or phrase, and you have a choice to use another phrase, why not use it? As I said…he didn’t know about the racist meaning, so I don’t hold it against him. If he uses it again, that would be a different issue altogether.
Niggardly doesn’t fall into this category. It was never meant to be racially offensive. The fact that it sounds similar to a racial slur is not reason enough to give it up.
What metaphor for the situation would have captured his meaning as richly and concisely? I think it was a great metaphor for him to use, and it’s a damned shame if he can’t use it because the term has morphed into something that by itself offends people.
[QUOTE=Kalhoun]
It’s not the words that are offensive. It’s the heartfelt emotion behind them. [/QUTOE]
Excepting, he didn’t have any emotion behind the words, heartfelt or otherwise. That’s what I’m referring to. In this instance, what exactly should he apologize for other than his ignorance that the term itself is offensive? I remember reading
an editorial dealing with at least similar issues and this lady stated “Just because you have freedom of speech doesn’t mean you get to offend me.” Technically, that’s exactly what it means. Not to say there aren’t ramifications, but there’s entirely too many folks whose being offended is a way of life, whole departments at once decent universities, etc.
That’s why I gave him a pass. It wasn’t heartfelt and it’s pretty obvious he didn’t mean it the “bad” way and was unaware there even was a “bad” way.
I scoped out Wikipedia Tar-Baby - Wikipedia and he’s not the only one who’s gotten his tit in a wringer over the phrase. The more I think about it the more I’m going to have to not get bent out of shape at all as long as it isn’t blatantly used as a racial insult.
[QUOTE=bluethree]
Is there some group of people in this country who think that Mitt Romney meant that the “Big Dig” was an American of African descent?
