# Tardy to class = suspension. Seriously? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 2, 2007, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tardy-to-class-suspension-seriously/402542 "2007-05-02T22:55:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2007, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tardy-to-class-suspension-seriously/402542/1 "2007-05-02T22:55:48Z")
I just got this email from my PTA, and I’m not sure what I think about it. Opinions? > [@](#): > > Sweeps Week is from Monday, April 30 to Friday, May 4. What is Sweeps Week? Sweeps Week was instituted to encourage all students to be on time to class. On time means being in class when the tardy bell rings. Once the tardy bell rings the teachers close their classroom doors. Any student not in the classroom is considered tardy and not allowed in without a pass. Next a teacher on “sweep duty” brings any child in the hallway without a pass to the office. A phone call is made to the student’s parent and notified that their child is tardy and informed that a second tardy will result in a one day suspension. > > Why the need for Sweeps Week? All year long it has been a challenge for our students to get to class on time. Understanding the importance of being on time to class has not been important to them, although they are reminded on a regular basis. Our PBIS (positive behavior intervention system) committee has paid close attention to this ongoing problem. We have addressed this issue in several ways; with tardy referrals, all school incentive (two or fewer tardies), after school detention, lunch detention and saturday school detention. At this time we are implementing the one day suspension. > > What is our goal? Our goal is to help our students maintain their focus as we approach the end of the school year. We"ve found that at this time of the year our students start to act like summer break has already started. They lose focus and grades suffer. With five weeks left in the school year we still have work to do. There is the research paper, MAPS testing, graduation preparation and other important curriculum projects. We want all our students to be successful as we end the school year. Part of me sympathizes. I am so aggravated when people aren’t on time to things. I understand why it’s a bad habit that should be corrected. OTOH, a suspension for two just-missed-the-bell tardies sounds awfully harsh, don’t you think? Or don’t you think? No further information as to whether it’s an in school or out of school or if they can make up their grades or they have to take zeros for the day. Oh, this is a junior high - 6,7 and 8th grade, and the kids switch for every class and have lockers where they keep their belongings. They are not allowed to bring bags to class or materials from one class to another class, which of course means they MUST go to their locker between each class. And the school is three floors, no elevators. Passing periods are 3 minutes. Discuss. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2007, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tardy-to-class-suspension-seriously/402542/2 "2007-05-02T23:01:43Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] …They are not allowed to bring bags to class or **materials from one class to another class** , which of course means they MUST go to their locker between each class. And the school is three floors, no elevators. Passing periods are 3 minutes. Discuss. [/QUOTE] That’s just idiotic! :eek: In high school we were _told to get stuff for multiple classes so we wouldn’t have to stop between every class._ ---
**Author:** ![sugar\_and\_spice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@sugar\_and\_spice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugar_and_spice)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2007, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tardy-to-class-suspension-seriously/402542/3 "2007-05-02T23:02:53Z")
I was going to say that it seems fine so long as they are applying it fairly to everyone … but then I read the part about having three minutes to get to your locker, get your books, and get to your other class! How is that possible? What do they do if they have to go to the bathroom? Do they go to the next class and then get permission? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2007, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tardy-to-class-suspension-seriously/402542/4 "2007-05-02T23:04:18Z")
And if the kid has to pee? Or takes longer than 3 seconds to remember what they have to take to their next class? This policy is stupid and counter-productive. As to the second part, California Ed Code says that suspended students **must** be given a fair opportunity to make up missed work. They **may not** be penalized by giving them zeros on assignments missed during the suspension. ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2007, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tardy-to-class-suspension-seriously/402542/5 "2007-05-02T23:07:35Z")
I like the _spirit_ of the policy. Not so sure about the letter of it, though. So much instructional time is lost when kids are stumbling in class two, three minutes after the bell. I was habitually late all my years as a high schooler, and I never really broke the habit. But the teachers who took points off, or threatened us with in-school suspension, somehow I was able to make it to those classes in time. There’s an idiotic policy in some of the Boston public schools in which students who are late for class are locked out of the building, unless they can find an adult to bring them to the office and sign them in. The fuck? Most of the kids come from single parent homes, or have both parents working. Some of the kids were asking random homeless people to sign them in. Real safe, and real smart, administrators. :rolleyes: Also, it sounds like the passing periods in your school are ridiculously short, especially given the prohibition about carrying bags. That’s just goofy. You could reduce half of the problems in the halls by encouraging kids to go to locker two or three times a day instead of after every class! ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2007, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tardy-to-class-suspension-seriously/402542/6 "2007-05-02T23:13:43Z")
[QUOTE=alphaboi867] That’s just idiotic! :eek: In high school we were _told to get stuff for multiple classes so we wouldn’t have to stop between every class._ [/QUOTE] That’s probably one of those asinine “school safety” rules. It seems to me like this is yet another example of “it seemed like a good idea at the time” policies that are passed without thinking about the overall context in which the policy is expected to operate and what other rules it will clash with. You may want to talk to the committee that implemented this policy and explain what you told us. See if they considered any of this before they made their decision. I’d be willing to bet they haven’t. Robin ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2007, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tardy-to-class-suspension-seriously/402542/7 "2007-05-02T23:14:43Z")
They’ve made it impossible for the kids to comply, if you ask me. I’m all about punctuality, but if your classes aren’t laid out just so, you’re going to be late. It sounds like it’s only going to happen for this one week. I don’t get the “go to your locker for every class” thing, either. I don’t think I ever knew where my locker was for four years. I carried it all with me. I’d pitch a bitch. Fer sure. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2007, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tardy-to-class-suspension-seriously/402542/8 "2007-05-02T23:14:50Z")
> [@](#): > > They are not allowed to bring bags to class or materials from one class to another class, which of course means they MUST go to their locker between each class. And the school is three floors, no elevators. Passing periods are 3 minutes. Alright now that is pure stupid, right there. (Referring of, course to the impossibility of being able to follow the rule, and not the OP.) ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2007, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tardy-to-class-suspension-seriously/402542/9 "2007-05-02T23:15:22Z")
I asked WhyKid about the bags, and he says that scuttlebutt around school is that “They” are afraid of kids hiding weapons in bags, or even large stacks of books and binders. So they have one large binder for everything that they keep with them (brand, model and color specifically required by the school, I remember that from buying school supplies) and they can only have the books for their next class with them. He says they are officially told that the school is looking out for their health by not letting them carry overloaded backpacks on crowded stairs, but “everyone knows” it’s about keeping guns out. You decide. After his spinal surgery when he was in sixth grade, we did have to get a signed doctor’s note insisting that he be allowed a wheeled bag that he could carry things to class in, as well as an elevator pass. Being an 11 year old boy, of course, he used neither. [QUOTE=sugar and spice] What do they do if they have to go to the bathroom? Do they go to the next class and then get permission? [/QUOTE] He says, “REALLY quickly.” But yeah, during passing periods. And he just informed me it’s four floors, not three. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2007, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tardy-to-class-suspension-seriously/402542/10 "2007-05-02T23:23:12Z")
Totally pitch a bitch. It’s ridiculous. If they don’t increase the time to pass between classes, they’re going to have to leave class to go to the bathroom anyway, thereby defeating the purpose of sweeps week to get the kids to be in class and studying. What. The FUCK. Does anyone _read_ this stuff before it goes out? ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2007, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tardy-to-class-suspension-seriously/402542/11 "2007-05-02T23:25:59Z")
I had 4 minutes to get to my classes in HS. It was impossible if I needed a locker stop. Everyone knew that an no one really cared. 3 minutes? Your school is crazy. Ask them to do it just once and see how impossible it is. I hate when the schools call the parents. My parents didn’t have jobs that you could just interrupt for a ridiculous phone call. Unless I was dying, they were left alone. If they called me saying “Your son was late again to my class.”, I’d sarcastically respond “Then start your class later.” ---
**Author:** ![jacquilynne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jacquilynne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jacquilynne)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2007, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tardy-to-class-suspension-seriously/402542/12 "2007-05-02T23:40:04Z")
That’s insane. We had 5 minutes when I was in high school, which was okay for almost everyone but Seniors, who had their lockers (but almost none of their classes) on the second floor. It became this huge issue during my senior year, because the teachers were angry that the students were late, and the students–especially the honours students, who had the most books, and the most classes in the math and science wing on the opposite end of the school from our lockers–were clueless as to just what they were supposed to do about it. The VP who was in charge of that sort of thing and I got into a heated argument about it, in which he insisted that it was possible for us to simply carry all of our books to class and not return to our lockers in between. So I dragged him to my locker and loaded him up with one morning’s worth of books – two physics texts, two chemistry texts, one very large calculus text and the assorted lab manuals, notebooks and other supplies that went with them. Then I suggested he carry them down two flights of stairs and across the school and let me know how that worked out for him. An unwritten rule was immediately, uh, unwritten, that Seniors could have 2 or 3 minutes extra to get back to classes in the science wing without being marked late. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2007, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tardy-to-class-suspension-seriously/402542/13 "2007-05-02T23:53:00Z")
Heck, if it was my kid, I’d send a letter to the principal saying: “As Sweeps Week is so fundamentally flawed, my kid will not be in school that week in case the stupidity is contagious.” Get other parents on board and maybe they’d rethink it. ---
**Author:** ![Eureka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/74df32/32.png) [@Eureka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eureka)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2007, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tardy-to-class-suspension-seriously/402542/14 "2007-05-02T23:55:53Z")
As long as we are talking about short-sighted policies designed by administrators. (Or is it policies designed by short-sighted administrators?) In my high school, they decided one year that an excessive number of students were skipping class. Henceforth it was decided that if anyone skipped class, their parents would be notified via a recorded message system. “Hello, This is the Recorded Message system calling to inform you that your son or daughter missed one or more classes this afternoon” (It’s been more than 15 years since this took place–the system may have tried to pronounce names, and might actually have made it possible to differentiate between various siblings. And the message was not delivered to my house very often. ) The system was but a few weeks old, when the District-wide band concert, and the half-District-wide choir concerts took place(not on the same day). Large numbers of students missed afternoon classes for the rehearsal for each of these events. With their parents’ full knowledge and permission. The message system gave up trying to contact parents less than 2/3rds of the way through the list of absent students. I believe this policy was rethought after this incident. * * * More generally, I think policies which encourage students to be on time to class are good, and loitering in the hallways is bad, but the policy as described makes it hard for students to be on time, so there’s this part of me which hopes that they’ve made arrangements for 30 students to be suspended, and actually find they have 300 students late and in need of arrangements. Hmm, I just read that sentence–you know, when I read the thread title, I read suspension, but thought detention. Not sure that that changes my opinion any. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2007, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tardy-to-class-suspension-seriously/402542/15 "2007-05-02T23:58:04Z")
Additionally, I can’t imagine a one-day suspension being very productive. I never understood the point of sending a kid home as punishment. Sounds like vacation to me. Suspensions are for the kids that you’ve given up on, and must be sacrificed to the Ignorance god for the sake of the rest of the classroom. I especially don’t understand the logic of causing kids to miss class as a punishment for missing class. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tardy-to-class-suspension-seriously/402542/16 "2007-05-03T00:31:13Z")
[QUOTE=IntelSoldier] Additionally, I can’t imagine a one-day suspension being very productive. I never understood the point of sending a kid home as punishment. Sounds like vacation to me… [/QUOTE] In my school we had in-school suspensions (aka ISS) and out-of-school suspensions (aka OSS). OSS was technically a more severe punishment, but ISS was more feared. You still had to show up for school, but spent it in a windowless room off the library. The desks all faced the wall and had dividers between them. Your teachers sent up assignments. There was of course no talking. For lunch all ISSers had to sit at the same table (with the teacher) in the middle of the foodhall. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tardy-to-class-suspension-seriously/402542/17 "2007-05-03T00:37:12Z")
Thanks guys. I wanted to make sure I wasn’t going off half-cocked. I’m really not one of those “my kid can do no wrong” moms, but this seemed out of line. I’m going to send the assistant principal (who wrote the message) an email, and cc it to the school board and the PTA. If we weren’t four weeks away from being out of the district forever I’d do it on paper and get all nasty, but I have better things to do with my time at this point. > [@](#): > > Dear Ms. [Assistant Principal], > > Regarding the email sent to parents detailing Sweeps Week, I feel the need to register my disapproval of this policy. > > As I understand it from my son, students are given 3 minutes for passing periods. This includes, he tells me, time for bathroom breaks, getting things from his locker and getting to the next class. Furthermore it is my understanding that bookbags are not allowed to be used, which might reduce the number of trips to the lockers. > > I’ve been to our school during passing periods. I am hard pressed to get from one end to the other in three minutes, given the crowded hallways and number of stairs. Adding in time not just for bodily function, but the recommended hygiene afterwards (doctors tell us we should be teaching our children to scrub their hands for a minimum of 30 seconds), I just don’t understand how this is a realistic expectation. > > As far as I can see, this can only increase classroom disruption from just-missed-the-bell tardy students (who enter while students are still talking, opening texts, sharpening pencils, etc.) by forcing them to enter the class much later – after being taken to the office, calling home, filling out paperwork to document the tardy, etc. At this point in the class period, their entrance is a much bigger distraction to other students, and of course they themselves have missed more material. > > I understand the difficult position you are in. I myself am very irritated at people who can not seem to be punctual. On the other hand, you have tried any number of reward and punishment techniques to cut down on tardiness. If none of these have worked, perhaps it’s time to consider that your 3 minute expectation is simply unrealistic. > > If any of my facts are in error, please accept my apology. It’s not always easy to get information out of a 14 year old boy! If you would care to discuss this further, please feel free to phone me at [phone number] or email me at this email address. What do you think? Too much? Too little? ---
**Author:** ![SnakesCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tardy-to-class-suspension-seriously/402542/18 "2007-05-03T00:44:58Z")
I think it sounds good - but you might want to add something about physical problems that can be caused by holding urine too long because you don’t have time to go to the bathroom. Really make him squirm! ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tardy-to-class-suspension-seriously/402542/19 "2007-05-03T00:45:03Z")
I think it’s a pretty good letter. It seems obvious to me that they could solve a lot of problems by making the break 2-4 minutes longer! ---
**Author:** ![TJdude825](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@TJdude825](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TJdude825)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tardy-to-class-suspension-seriously/402542/20 "2007-05-03T00:46:41Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > “They” are afraid of kids hiding weapons in bags, or even large stacks of books and binders. I don’t get it. Do kids not have pockets or purses? I’m trying to figure out when this would ever be useful. _Student is carrying a large bag with a gun in it. He plans to go to his next class and start shooting wildly. Currently, it’s the passing period, and he has 30 seconds to get to class. If he walks slowly, someone will be suspicious because everyone else is in a hurry, so he is running to class. A security guard stops him and says, “No large bags. You know the rules.” He says, “Sorry, I forgot” and goes to put the bag back in his locker. He then goes to class and gets there late. But everyone is saved by the large-bag rules._ Is that how it’s supposed to work? In any case, yes this is ridiculous, and I hope the other parents will agree with you. I like the idea of making the administrators do the passing-period routine to see what it’s really like. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tardy-to-class-suspension-seriously/402542.md?page=2)