# Tariq Aziz says Saddam is still alive: Is this a failure for GWB? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 28, 2003, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tariq-aziz-says-saddam-is-still-alive-is-this-a-failure-for-gwb/171783 "2003-04-28T21:52:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tariq-aziz-says-saddam-is-still-alive-is-this-a-failure-for-gwb/171783/1 "2003-04-28T21:52:31Z")
[Linkage](http://www.usatoday.com/usatonline/20030428/5107744s.htm) > [@](#): > > \*\*BAGHDAD – Iraq’s former deputy prime minister Tariq Aziz has told U.S. interrogators he saw Saddam Hussein alive after the two airstrikes mounted by coalition forces to kill him, a senior Defense official says. > > The information provided by the most recognizable regime figure taken into custody so far bolsters sketchy reports flowing into U.S. intelligence that Saddam and his two sons survived the March 19 and April 7 airstrikes targeting them during the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq. > > Almost three weeks after the fall of Baghdad, the Bush administration’s public stance is nonchalant: Saddam will turn up, either alive, in some Iraqi version of the Alamo, or dead under a pile of rubble. The important thing, administration officials say, is that Saddam no longer runs Iraq. > > Privately, however, administration officials know their stance is, at best, a brave face on an uncertain situation. Until Saddam is found, some of his friends and his foes in Iraq will continue to operate out of fear that he could make a comeback and settle scores with anyone who helped the coalition. Captured regime officials might withhold what they know about any weapons of mass destruction as long as they are uncertain of Saddam’s fate.\*\* So here’s the debate; Does Bush have to kill Hussein to call the invasion a success. It’s already embarrassing enough that Osama bin Laden has essentially gotten away scott-free. How bad will it look if Saddam gets away now too? Instead of one loose boogeyman we now have two. I know Bush can still claim that he achieved regime change in Iraq, but from a purely PR standpoint, how damaging will it be if Saddam is given refuge in a country like Syria or Libya? Should the US use military force against any country that harbors him or should we just suck it up and drive on? ---
**Author:** ![MrTuffPaws](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f475e1/32.png) [@MrTuffPaws](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrTuffPaws)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tariq-aziz-says-saddam-is-still-alive-is-this-a-failure-for-gwb/171783/2 "2003-04-28T22:18:02Z")
Well, Osama is still running around, and it did not slow Bush down any. The focus has shifted to NK. Poeple will forget about Iraq and move on. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tariq-aziz-says-saddam-is-still-alive-is-this-a-failure-for-gwb/171783/3 "2003-04-28T22:38:03Z")
No. The overwhelming task was to oust Saddam. That’s done. SH is not a revolutionary figure who can go underground like ObL and raise religious followers. Besides, we’ve got some pretty big fish from the regime already. If SH stays hidden, it spares us the need to try him and punish him. The details of that trial and punishment could give fodder to a lot of Bush critics, here and abroad. Yeah, the Democratic pres candidate will use it in tha campaign, but I think it’s small potatoes. Unless SH resurfaces as some sort of troublemaker somewhere. Personally, I’d say let him go if he slinks into some country that offers him sanctuary. Maybe some minor sanctions type of deal, but no military force. That country will be a pariah, anyway. And without his country’s resources, SH is a mouse. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tariq-aziz-says-saddam-is-still-alive-is-this-a-failure-for-gwb/171783/4 "2003-04-28T22:49:57Z")
I think that old Saddam will probably join the same country club frequented by Baby Doc Duvalier and Idi Amin. He’s no doubt got his hands on enough cash and overseas assets to live in splendor, protected by any one of a dozen nations which will honor his good money over his bad reputation. So long as he stays away, Iraq (and the United States) probably have more pressing matters at hand. But that’s the thing–the flip side to deposed dictators hiding out in exile is that they almost always try to come back, as Duvalier and Imelda Marcos did. By then, however, it likely won’t be George W.'s problem anymore. (Should I even mention this? What the hell. Amin purportedly resides in Saudi Arabia, Duvalier in France.) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tariq-aziz-says-saddam-is-still-alive-is-this-a-failure-for-gwb/171783/5 "2003-04-28T23:17:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sofa King \* > \*\*I think that old Saddam will probably join the same country club frequented by Baby Doc Duvalier and Idi Amin. He’s no doubt got his hands on enough cash and overseas assets to live in splendor, protected by any one of a dozen nations which will honor his good money over his bad reputation. So long as he stays away, Iraq (and the United States) probably have more pressing matters at hand. > > But that’s the thing–the flip side to deposed dictators hiding out in exile is that they almost always try to come back, as Duvalier and Imelda Marcos did. By then, however, it likely won’t be George W.'s problem anymore. > > (Should I even mention this? What the hell. Amin purportedly resides in Saudi Arabia, Duvalier in France.) \*\* Maybe they can all form a league of super villains somewhere and scheme to take over the world. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tariq-aziz-says-saddam-is-still-alive-is-this-a-failure-for-gwb/171783/6 "2003-04-28T23:29:39Z")
Well, they probably do have a croquet league. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tariq-aziz-says-saddam-is-still-alive-is-this-a-failure-for-gwb/171783/7 "2003-04-28T23:30:56Z")
Well, since today is SH’s birthday, maybe we can lure him out with a big birthday cake. Exploding candles will then dispense with the need for a trial. Does anyone know how to sing Happy Birthday in Arabic? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2003, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tariq-aziz-says-saddam-is-still-alive-is-this-a-failure-for-gwb/171783/8 "2003-04-29T00:00:21Z")
Where’s Bugs Bunny whn you need him? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2003, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tariq-aziz-says-saddam-is-still-alive-is-this-a-failure-for-gwb/171783/9 "2003-04-29T01:28:42Z")
Why would the invasion be a failure if they don’t get Saddam? Hell, they were willing to let Saddam take a few billion and go live somewhere else. The whole point was to get rid of Saddam’s government. Not Saddam personally. Of course, while the war was on he was target #1, because taking him out could end the war, or at the very least confuse the leadership and cause the war to end more quickly. Now that the war is over, he’s not much of a threat. He’s not NEARLY the threat Osama Bin Laden was - Osama is a folk hero. Hussein is a hated man who only kept power through tyranny. He’ll be lucky if he can bribe a government to let him live in a safehouse somewhere, and he’d better not stick his neck out anywhere or the U.S. will chop it off. Also, he’s not likely to be the kind of man willing to go live in a cave and conduct a terror war from there. He’s used to living in palaces. He’s a hedonist. So if he sets up shop somewhere, I suspect it will become evident where he is very quickly. Then, if he tries to actually conduct any kind of operation that reveals his presence, he’s likely to get a couple of JDAMs on his head. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2003, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tariq-aziz-says-saddam-is-still-alive-is-this-a-failure-for-gwb/171783/10 "2003-04-29T02:08:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\* It’s already embarrassing enough that Osama bin Laden has essentially gotten away scott-free. \*\* We haven’t got him yet. But because I’ve seen this assertion a few times in GD, it’s time to put to bed, once and for all, any notion that the United States or its allies have stopped looking for Osama. We still have substantial forces on the ground in Afghanistan fighting remnant (and reconstituted) talib forces and looking for evidence which might indicate bin Laden’s whereabouts. **Diogenes** , you can make your penance for your error by making a contribution the the veteran’s organization of your choice in memory of Airman 1st Class Raymond Losano, killed in action in Afghanistan just last week. Last month, Pakistanis captured bin Laden second-in-command Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. Kenya is moving on al Qaeda operatives. The United States has intelligence and military assets in literally dozens of countries looking for al Qaeda and Osama specifically. The hunt for this guy continues. I trust this puts this issue to rest. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2003, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tariq-aziz-says-saddam-is-still-alive-is-this-a-failure-for-gwb/171783/11 "2003-04-29T03:57:11Z")
I didn’t say that weren’t looking for him, **Manhatten** I said they hadn’t found him (Ok, I said he “got away” ). People are looking for Noah’s Ark, too. That doesn’t mean they’re going to find it. ObL has gotten away for a year and a half at least, and may never be found at all. I’d say that at least until he is _found_ his continued freedom will be an embarrassment to this administration. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2003, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tariq-aziz-says-saddam-is-still-alive-is-this-a-failure-for-gwb/171783/12 "2003-04-29T06:27:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by John Mace \* > The overwhelming task was to oust Saddam. That’s done. Gosh, you mean all those times Colin Powell and Donald Rumsfeld and George W. Bush told the UN that the goal was to disarm Iraq of any and all WMDs was false? Gosh! _We sought to oust Saddam. We have always sought to oust Saddam…_ ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2003, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tariq-aziz-says-saddam-is-still-alive-is-this-a-failure-for-gwb/171783/13 "2003-04-29T10:50:24Z")
[http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/excerpts\_oct2.html](http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/excerpts_oct2.html) You know, Rob, sometimes you really have to keep a tight hold on your excluded middle. The answer appears to have always been _both_. Oh, and nice work on the Trannies, this year. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2003, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tariq-aziz-says-saddam-is-still-alive-is-this-a-failure-for-gwb/171783/14 "2003-04-29T11:42:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*. I’d say that at least until he is _found_ his continued freedom will be an embarrassment to this administration. \*\* I’d say you’re wrong. There have been no front page stories about Bin Laden in many moons. And very few, is any, editorials taking GWB to task for it. The same can be said for the economy. The war is serving it’s purpose. > [@](#): > > how damaging will it be if Saddam is given refuge in a country like Syria or Libya? Not damaging at all. Then the public’s focus will be on Syria or Lybia. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2003, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tariq-aziz-says-saddam-is-still-alive-is-this-a-failure-for-gwb/171783/15 "2003-04-29T12:06:38Z")
> [@](#): > > I’d say you’re wrong. There have been no front page stories about Bin Laden in many moons. And very few, is any, editorials taking GWB to task for it. The same can be said for the economy. But in any event, we’ve neutralized both Saddam and Bin Laden. Its possible both are dead. But alive or dead they are little more than fugitives, and cannot craft a response. Look at Al Quada - we’ve dismantled it. The leadership can’t cut the grass with a broken lawnmower. > [@](#): > > The war is serving it’s purpose. Oh, not this _again_. ---
**Author:** ![medstar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f07891/32.png) [@medstar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/medstar)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2003, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tariq-aziz-says-saddam-is-still-alive-is-this-a-failure-for-gwb/171783/16 "2003-04-29T19:08:13Z")
Also, how do you know that Tariq Aziz is telling the truth? He could just be blowing smoke. I don’t trust any of those playing card renegades any farther than I can throw them. And I can’t throw far. So there. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2003, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tariq-aziz-says-saddam-is-still-alive-is-this-a-failure-for-gwb/171783/17 "2003-04-29T19:14:45Z")
> [@](#): > > Hell, they were willing to let Saddam take a few billion and go live somewhere else. Well, they knew he’d never take that deal anyway. But if Bush doesn’t take a hit for Bin Laden, al-Zawahri, and many other Al-Qaeda leaders escaping, then I doubt the survival of Saddam, Uday, Qusai and whoever else makes much difference. > [@](#): > > Also, how do you know that Tariq Aziz is telling the truth? He could just be blowing smoke. Nobody should, but British intelligence agrees with him. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2003, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tariq-aziz-says-saddam-is-still-alive-is-this-a-failure-for-gwb/171783/18 "2003-04-29T19:15:02Z")
> [@](#): > > Hell, they were willing to let Saddam take a few billion and go live somewhere else. Well, they knew he’d never take that deal anyway. But if Bush doesn’t take a hit for Bin Laden, al-Zawahri, and many other Al-Qaeda leaders escaping, then I doubt the survival of Saddam, Uday, Qusai and whoever else makes much difference. > [@](#): > > Also, how do you know that Tariq Aziz is telling the truth? He could just be blowing smoke. Nobody should trust those guys, but British intelligence agrees with him. ---
**Author:** ![ElJeffe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/958977/32.png) [@ElJeffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElJeffe)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2003, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tariq-aziz-says-saddam-is-still-alive-is-this-a-failure-for-gwb/171783/19 "2003-04-29T19:29:44Z")
> [@](#): > > ObL has gotten away for a year and a half at least, and may never be found at all. I’d say that at least until he is found his continued freedom will be an embarrassment to this administration. This will only be true of those people who consider the Bush administration an embarrassment regardless of what it does, by virtue of the fact that it’s the Bush administration. Most reasonable people will probably see that the important thing is that ObL can no longer do any harm. If that’s the case, then whether or not he’s dead/captured/sipping lattes in a Starbucks somewhere is mere trivia. Jeff ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2003, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tariq-aziz-says-saddam-is-still-alive-is-this-a-failure-for-gwb/171783/20 "2003-04-29T19:55:32Z")
What about all that “dead or alive” talk then? Was that just a lot of hot air? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tariq-aziz-says-saddam-is-still-alive-is-this-a-failure-for-gwb/171783.md?page=2)