# Taser Use Justified? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 6, 2005, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taser-use-justified/307161 "2005-06-06T17:46:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taser-use-justified/307161/261 "2005-06-10T14:43:12Z")
> [@Unregistered Bull](#): > > The part that I didn’t like was the use of an unmarked police car to do the traffic stop. Hopefully they aren’t using them at night as well. Why? ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taser-use-justified/307161/262 "2005-06-10T15:13:51Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Why? Because one really doesn’t know if it is the police or just some rapist or other criminal trying to pull you over. This problem is especially exacerbated at night time. (And they piss me off because, they’re hard to spot and avoid.) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taser-use-justified/307161/263 "2005-06-10T15:45:54Z")
> [@Unregistered Bull](#): > > Because one really doesn’t know if it is the police or just some rapist or other criminal trying to pull you over. This problem is especially exacerbated at night time. > > (And they piss me off because, they’re hard to spot and avoid.) Your first pooint is certainly valid. Your second is… not. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taser-use-justified/307161/264 "2005-06-10T15:47:34Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Your first pooint is certainly valid. > > Your second is… not. And the way to ameliorate the first concern is for any driver to advise the officer approaching her car that she wants to drive to a well-lit, public area or to have a marked unit respond. Police in unmarked patrol cars are always willign to accede to such requests, for precisely the reaosn you mention. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taser-use-justified/307161/265 "2005-06-10T16:12:15Z")
I’ve heard of that, **Bricker** , only slightly different. The driver or a passenger, if they have a cell phone, can slow down (not stop), call 911 to verify that it is truly a peace officer, and pull over in a well-lit area once the identity is verified. The officer _should_ not penalize a driver for doing so, for either a marked or unmarked car. ---
**Author:** ![TJVM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b38774/32.png) [@TJVM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TJVM)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taser-use-justified/307161/266 "2005-06-10T16:17:02Z")
> [@](#): > > Did you read any of these posts or just watch the video? I don’t know how you call the officers attitude being a dick. He was professional but not pleasent. In light of her consistantly beligerent attitude I think he was restrained. I’ve read the posts and watched the video. I guess it’s hard to resolve the question of the officer’s attitude, since it depends on tone of voice and his manner of speaking. If a police officer spoke to me like that, I’d think he was being a jerk. And it seemed to me that he acted like that from the very beginning, not just after the woman was giving him a hard time. I don’t recall the conversation verbatim, but, as an example, I recall that when the woman first questioned why she’d been stopped, he just looked away and said sarcastically, “Yeah, right, tell me how to do my job.” (I may not have it word for word). Of course, the woman did not act appropriately either. The proper response would have been to cooperate, and then afterward, if she felt it necessary, lodge a complaint somewhere. As someone else alluded to, I think what we’re seeing is two bad attitudes colliding, and then an escalation into violence. If either one of them had been courteous and mature, I doubt the woman would have been tasered, and I doubt the police officer would have found himself the subject of a news story. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taser-use-justified/307161/267 "2005-06-10T16:42:44Z")
Ok, I’ve read about 4 pages of this thread. I rarely participate in GD, but I have to come down on one side of this issue. _What the cop did was perfectly justified._ Every time we have one of these threads, we get a bunch of people saying that no matter what the cops do it’s over the top, that cops should always be nice, polit, gentlemen. And we always get at least one person ( **yBeaf** , I’m looking at you) who claims that the whole police state is wrong anyway and roads should be free and there should be no stops for anything. **A) No matter what the cops do it’s over the top. Cops should be nice to us.** This is patently ridiculous, yet this is the impression one gets from these posters. Cops risk their lives every day for the rest of us. Isn’t that enough? Sure, there are bad apples, but I’d like to see you do any better. When you’re in a situation where someone is being hostile, best to get the person under control right away and then deal with the repercussions. In the current case, I can imagine the shitstorm that would have occured had the officers yanked her out of the car and beat her down. **B) Roads should be free and cops should do the minimum of the job.** I’m sorry, I don’t agree. I have been pulled over by a few cops in my life and while they’re not exactly nice, they have no reason to be if they think I’m breaking the law which they’re _hired to keep_. They’re neutral, and careful - they don’t know what’s going to be in the car. Just cooperate, most of the time all will be well. I don’t want a state where I have to defend _myself_. I don’t want to carry a gun. I live in a civilized country and pay my taxes and expect the government to protect me and mine. Cars are one of the most dangerous killers ever, and the roads \*must \* be regulated. Must be! If they were not regulated, the situation would be 1000 x worse. Ok, now I’m stepping back out of GD. I had to say something though. \*\*Bricker \*\* is right…it \*was \* warranted. No jackbooting. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taser-use-justified/307161/268 "2005-06-10T16:45:54Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Why? I have been told by many people not to pull over for an unmarked police car if you are in an isolated area. I can’t help but think back to the Red Light Slasher - wasn’t that his name - who had police lights on his car but was a serial killer. I don’t like unmarked police cars either…I don’t know if it’s really a cop or just some guy with an ego problem. As a woman, I would seriously be frightened to pull over. I’ve been told to ask for ID, but how am I supposed to know a fake ID from a real one? I’ve also been told to only open the window a crack, but that’s not really going to help if he’s got a gun. ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taser-use-justified/307161/269 "2005-06-10T17:43:44Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And the way to ameliorate the first concern is for any driver to advise the officer approaching her car that she wants to drive to a well-lit, public area or to have a marked unit respond. Police in unmarked patrol cars are always willign to accede to such requests, for precisely the reaosn you mention. I really wouldn’t bet on that. I think that an arrest would be highly likely. Especially if the person being pulled over was a minority male or had a ‘scuzzy’ appearence. FWIW the ruse of using a fake unmarked police car is real. It’s happened locally in the case of sexual assaults in Lubbock TX and attempted sexual assaults (daytime BTW) in Roswell NM. I can certainly understand why women would be very reluctant to stop for an unmarked car. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taser-use-justified/307161/270 "2005-06-10T18:09:31Z")
> [@Unregistered Bull](#): > > I really wouldn’t bet on that. I think that an arrest would be highly likely. Especially if the person being pulled over was a minority male or had a ‘scuzzy’ appearence. And of course you have a cite for that happening? The advice I gave was exactly what police had publicly advised after a rash of police impersonator incidents in the Northern Virginia area. I cannot imagine how police could give that advice in all sorts of news media and then arrest someone for following it. Has it ever happened? ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taser-use-justified/307161/271 "2005-06-10T19:43:10Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And of course you have a cite for that happening? > > The advice I gave was exactly what police had publicly advised after a rash of police impersonator incidents in the Northern Virginia area. I cannot imagine how police could give that advice in all sorts of news media and then arrest someone for following it. > > Has it ever happened? Police have advised the same thing in two localities near where I live due to criminals using the ruse. But if there wasn’t any such advisory, I doubt that doing as you’ve said would work out well. IMO using unmarked cars for traffic enforcement (doing the actual pulling over with no intention of using a marked police vehicle in vehicle stops for traffic violations) already means that the department already doesn’t care about angering or scaring the public anyway. I don’t have any linkable cites offhand about doing as you say with unmarked police vehicles, and it turning out badly. Just an opinion that it could (not unlike an opinion that something like what I describe never has happened or never would). Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe I’m not. But I find little to disuade me of the opinion that I hold on this subject. I admit that I’m not much of debater. :o But as far as the tazing in the OP, it sure seems justified IMO. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2005, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taser-use-justified/307161/272 "2005-06-11T00:38:22Z")
> [@TJVM](#): > > If a police officer spoke to me like that, I’d think he was being a jerk. And it seemed to me that he acted like that from the very beginning, not just after the woman was giving him a hard time. I don’t recall the conversation verbatim, but, as an example, I recall that when the woman first questioned why she’d been stopped, he just looked away and said sarcastically, “Yeah, right, tell me how to do my job.” (I may not have it word for word). No thats pretty much right on. I’d point out that he said please twice when he first approached and asked her to close the door and when he said it a thrid time she said “I don’t have to” It was there I think she started off with the bad attitude. She rightly asked why she was pulled over and when he told her she was clocked going 51 in a 35. { 16 mph over} she **told** him he wasn’t allowed to use radar in a moving vehicle. Thats when he made the comment you noticed. He could have said “Maam you’re incorrect it’s perfectly legal but you can lodge a complaint later if you don’t believe me” I really doubt that would have improved her attitude. If she had been polite {as you or I would likely be} and he had said what he did I would agree with you that he had been a bit of a jerk. Since she started off being a pain and continued to do so {while knowing she was dead wrong} I blame her. I don’t expect an officer to be extra patient and nice every time. He did his job professionaly. > [@](#): > > Of course, the woman did not act appropriately either. The proper response would have been to cooperate, and then afterward, if she felt it necessary, lodge a complaint somewhere. I agree. If you knew full well you were speeding and got pulled over would you give the officer a hard time or take the ticket you knew you deserved? In her case she was not only speeding, but had a broken windshield and a **suspended license**. Still she gave him lip. Why not just hang a big **arrest me** sign on the side of your car. Sheeesh. When my son, who is a great guy, was a teenager he got busted for shoplifting a can of soda. He complained that the cop was kind of a rude jerk to him. My comment was “who committed the crime that made the officer be there?” “Well I did” “That makes it your fault” period. When you break the law nobody is required to be polite to you. They shouldn’t be abusive, but they don’t have to be polite. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2005, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taser-use-justified/307161/273 "2005-06-11T00:55:07Z")
> [@Unregistered Bull](#): > > Police have advised the same thing in two localities near where I live due to criminals using the ruse. But if there wasn’t any such advisory, I doubt that doing as you’ve said would work out well. The point is they did use that advisory. It has to do with what is deemed reasonable. The police don’t want to punish people for reasonable action. A similar thing happened after the Rodney King incident. They felt it was reasonable for people to drive to a public to a public place before pulling over. Anyone can install a light in their car. If an unmarked car is pulling you over in a secluded spot , especially at night. Slow down but don’t stop until you get to some people. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2005, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taser-use-justified/307161/274 "2005-06-11T02:37:15Z")
So, nobody’s going to find me a police brutality lawsuit where the plaintiff was awarded more than $500 for a black eye? Just one, that’s all I need. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2005, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taser-use-justified/307161/275 "2005-06-11T09:53:27Z")
> [@minty green](#): > > So, nobody’s going to find me a police brutality lawsuit where the plaintiff was awarded more than $500 for a black eye? Just one, that’s all I need. Reading is fundamental check out post #255 > [@](#): > > Bear\_Nenno Well, between 1990 and 1999 there were 111 LAPD officers found liable for excessive assault and battery. The average payout per officer was over $100,000. > This says nothing for the shootings or other liabilities. This is simple batteries where we can assume the injuries were broken bones or noses. > > Are the payouts across the rest of the U.S. so low that they bring the average payout down to $500??? > Cite: Page 4 Warning PDF then post #258 ---
**Author:** ![ScoobyTX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@ScoobyTX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ScoobyTX)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2005, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taser-use-justified/307161/276 "2005-06-11T13:40:00Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > Reading is fundamental > > check out post #255 > > then post #258 Yes, reading is fundamental. > [@minty green](#): > > plaintiff was awarded more than $500 for a black eye Not “well, it was only excessive assault & battery, so I assume it’s broken bones and noses.” ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2005, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taser-use-justified/307161/277 "2005-06-11T13:54:29Z")
I hear Rodndey Kind got several million dollars, after all. I’m sure he had a black eye. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2005, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taser-use-justified/307161/278 "2005-06-11T13:55:48Z")
Rodney Kin_g_. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2005, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taser-use-justified/307161/279 "2005-06-11T14:07:23Z")
> [@ScoobyTX](#): > > Yes, reading is fundamental.Not “well, it was only excessive assault & battery, so I assume it’s broken bones and noses.” Going back to his original question, not the rephrasing, and the post that prompted it , you’ll see that his challenge was easily met. The point was that tasers are used to avoid a physical confrontation that can result in serious injuries when the person being arrested contunes to resist. Where do you suppose those lawsuits came from? ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2005, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taser-use-justified/307161/280 "2005-06-11T16:01:09Z")
My challenge was for you to find a $500 plaintiff’s verdict for a black eye. I don’t give a damn about big judgments for big injuries, I merely challenge your utterly absurd claim about “lawsuits involving victims with broken noses and black eyes.” I repeat: Utterly. Absurd. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taser-use-justified/307161.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taser-use-justified/307161.md?page=15)