# Taser Use Justified? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 6, 2005, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taser-use-justified/307161 "2005-06-06T17:46:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taser-use-justified/307161/101 "2005-06-08T00:59:56Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Here’a an idea; instead of bringing out every cop for miles around, why not wait sixty seconds for her to calm down? COP: Maam, I’m going to arrest you now. Go ahead and take some time to yourself. How’s 60 seconds? Will that give you enough time to calm down and think about where any weapons might be in your vehicle or how you might better resist the situation or possibly harm us? Doing things quickly gives the suspect less time to think and react. That’s the whole point. Why give someone the chance to _plan_ something. What if she had a gun under her seat. Maybe she couldn’t get to it because everything happened so fast. Give her enough time, and she will find a way to exploit that to her advantage. Maybe 60 seconds is enough time for her to realize she has a letter opener in her purse that she could use to stab someone. The quicker and safer an arrest can be done, the better! Cops are under no obligation to let criminals “calm down”, "think about what you’re doing "or “prepare to be arrested”. ---
**Author:** ![RickNZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a8b319/32.png) [@RickNZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickNZ)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taser-use-justified/307161/102 "2005-06-08T01:16:02Z")
yBeayf you seem to have trouble understanding that all your of your posts (which are very consistant) point to you desiring an anarchistic state where every does as they please without fear of constraint from the community. ---
**Author:** ![RickNZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a8b319/32.png) [@RickNZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickNZ)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taser-use-justified/307161/103 "2005-06-08T01:19:11Z")
Do you think Rickjay would be so anti-police actions if one of his loved ones had been killed by a driver on a suspended licence? ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taser-use-justified/307161/104 "2005-06-08T01:31:50Z")
> [@](#): > > yBeayf you seem to have trouble understanding that all your of your posts (which are very consistant) point to you desiring an anarchistic state where every does as they please without fear of constraint from the community. How do you figure? I’ve already said I have no problem with a police force, should one exist, using force to take down a person in the act of committing violence, or in executing an arrest warrant. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taser-use-justified/307161/105 "2005-06-08T01:33:02Z")
Gee appealing to emotion and constructing strawmen always works in a debate. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taser-use-justified/307161/106 "2005-06-08T02:23:36Z")
> [@drachillix](#): > > You have apparently never been involved in the handcuffing of a combative individual. Nor have I ever been involved in the shooting of a combative individual. So what? > [@](#): > > Even the officers involved in taking down a combative suspect will normally be a little scraped up, and often have a couple small muscle strains and such from overpowering the individual in question. Bruises, serious abrasions and sprains are not all that uncommon. And in my line of work, it’s common to be afflicted with paper cuts. That doesn’t mean I’m justified in tasering the guy who loads the paper into the photocopier. > [@](#): > > Its worse for the loser. Good. A little pain is good for the soul. Plus, the use of potentially deadly force has been avoided. Here’s a little thought experiment. How about if, instead of tasering the woman, he’d just walked up to the window and punched her in the face? Would that be justified? If not, why was the violence of a taser justified? ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taser-use-justified/307161/107 "2005-06-08T02:45:12Z")
> [@](#): > > Here’s a little thought experiment. How about if, instead of tasering the woman, he’d just walked up to the window and punched her in the face? Would that be justified? If not, why was the violence of a taser justified? Because the Taser is a lesser degree of force than a punch to the face. The same way a bunch to the face is a lesser degree than a bullet to the face. The Taser is justified even before punching and clubbing. The Taser is less “potentially deadly” than fighting, wrestling, or clubbing. ---
**Author:** ![RickNZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a8b319/32.png) [@RickNZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickNZ)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taser-use-justified/307161/108 "2005-06-08T03:15:52Z")
Personnally i think everyone who complains of the policemans actions (the type who no doubt also tell Rocket scientists where to stick the nozzle) need to be beaten up while a policeman stands by saying; “please dont do that, hitting that person is wrong” “im giving you 60sec to desist before i start raising my voice” “im warning you, im about to go downtown and get a warrent to use harsh language on you”. Also it may well be valid for you t have an issue with tasers in general but at the time of this incident its a legal tool for the police in the US to use to disable perps. How would you act in such a circumstance? Give the cop a hard time or follow his instructions? Was the policemans requests unreasonable? ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taser-use-justified/307161/109 "2005-06-08T03:31:37Z")
> [@](#): > > Personnally i think everyone who complains of the policemans actions (the type who no doubt also tell Rocket scientists where to stick the nozzle) need to be beaten up while a policeman stands by saying;… 1. The woman wasn’t beating anyone up. 2. May I brandish and/or use my handy-dandy can of pepper spray, taser, or concealed pistol? ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taser-use-justified/307161/110 "2005-06-08T03:34:35Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Because the Taser is a lesser degree of force than a punch to the face. How about he just slaps her instead? Justified force? ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taser-use-justified/307161/111 "2005-06-08T03:38:15Z")
> [@](#): > > How about he just slaps her instead? Justified force? I vote for a Vulcan nerve pinch. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taser-use-justified/307161/112 "2005-06-08T03:58:23Z")
> [@RickNZ](#): > > Do you think Rickjay would be so anti-police actions if one of his loved ones had been killed by a driver on a suspended licence? Oh, what a crock. I’m not “anti-police actions,” I think THIS PARTICULAR COP acted poorly. Indeed, I beleive most cops would have resolved that situation without resorting to the Taser. Am I not allowed to present arguments unless I’ve had a loved one run over by a driver with a suspended license? (In any event, the major risk out there remains DRUNK drivers.) If you want to make this personal, buddy, you need to go to the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Dog80](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@Dog80](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dog80)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taser-use-justified/307161/113 "2005-06-08T04:12:02Z")
> [@minty green](#): > > How about he just slaps her instead? Justified force? Have you ever subdued anybody by slapping? ---
**Author:** ![Dog80](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@Dog80](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dog80)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taser-use-justified/307161/114 "2005-06-08T04:20:51Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Oh, what a crock. I’m not “anti-police actions,” I think THIS PARTICULAR COP acted poorly. OK, you are not a policeman and you have never tried to subdue an unwilling person. Yet, in your opinion, use of the taser in this particular situation was uncalled for. > [@RickJay](#): > > Indeed, I beleive most cops would have resolved that situation without resorting to the Taser. How? Please explain. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taser-use-justified/307161/115 "2005-06-08T04:31:59Z")
> [@Dog80](#): > > Have you ever subdued anybody by slapping? Why exactly did this woman need subduing? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taser-use-justified/307161/116 "2005-06-08T04:53:10Z")
> [@minty green](#): > > He should have pulled her sorry ass out of the vehicle, stuck his knee in the small of her back, and handcuffed her. The taser is a potentially deadly weapon, and deadly force was in no way justified. You’re being a little generous with the lives of officers. I would imagine you’ve never had to deal with someone in a street brawl. The rules are pretty simple, there aren’t any. Nothing is sacred. Tasers are in response to physical confrontation. Officers have no way of knowiing of how far people are willing to take it. I’ve seen 90 lb women go absolutely ape-shit and put 200 lb men in the hospital. I’m not talking about drug crazed loons with the strength of 3 people. The people getting tased are making a choice. It is a violent choice that carries with it no sense of rational behavior. Police have no way of gauging the intent of the criminal other than their violent actions. The only concession I would make to the process would be a verbal warning followed by a demo to show that the taser is functional. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taser-use-justified/307161/117 "2005-06-08T05:00:13Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Why exactly did this woman need subduing? Because she was under arrest. Are you guys not following along?? Since was not going to go along voluntarily, she needed subduing. She was asked to step out of the vehicle. That’s a lawful order whether she was being arrested or not. Refusing to cooperate is Resisting an Officer without Violence – another crime on top of her Driving while license suspended or revoked. You guys can argue all day about Tasers and whether cops should have them. Personally I think their one of the greatest new tools out there! But _this_ particular officer’s actions were practically textbook! He acted perfectly, according to FL law, police ethics and departmental SOP. Nothing he could have done better. A criminal was arrested and no one was hurt - officer or criminal. I don’t know how people think she wasn’t argumentative. She didn’t stop yelling from the time she was pulled over, til the time she was tasered. You can even hear her when the cop is standing nowhere near her. Listen closely to her yelling in the background. She never stopped. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taser-use-justified/307161/118 "2005-06-08T05:00:33Z")
> [@minty green](#): > > Nor have I ever been involved in the shooting of a combative individual. So what? Because its not your job, we didn’t really expect you to understand it, just listen to those who have. > [@](#): > > And in my line of work, it’s common to be afflicted with paper cuts. That doesn’t mean I’m justified in tasering the guy who loads the paper into the photocopier. So when you do it its tasering, when a BIG MEAN policeman does it its shooting. > [@](#): > > A little pain is good for the soul. Plus, the use of potentially deadly force has been avoided. Any real application of force is potentially deadly, hell people survive gunshot wounds all the time, maybe we should just dispense with the taser experiments and just shoot the next one…bullets are cheaper afterall. She did recieve a little pain, from a taser. She would have been in more pain longer by any other method available to arrest her without her cooperation. > [@](#): > > Here’s a little thought experiment. How about if, instead of tasering the woman, he’d just walked up to the window and punched her in the face? Would that be justified? If not, why was the violence of a taser justified? In your view, punching her in the face would be better? ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taser-use-justified/307161/119 "2005-06-08T05:09:42Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Here’a an idea; instead of bringing out every cop for miles around, why not wait sixty seconds for her to calm down? Would that have been so hard?. Anecdotal, but true story. A man involved in a drug deal was being chased on foot by police from an armed robbery, he ran into his apartment across the street from the amusement park I worked at. SWAT team called out for the possibility of having to extract him by force. When they called his apartment he was on the phone…to his girlfriend. His girlfriend was one of our waterslide attendants at a slide station with an excellent view of the area telling him where the SWAT guys were positioned around the apartment. Was this lady calming down…or calling for backup? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taser-use-justified/307161/120 "2005-06-08T05:26:46Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Because she was under arrest. Are you guys not following along?? Since was not going to go along voluntarily, she needed subduing. She was asked to step out of the vehicle. That’s a lawful order whether she was being arrested or not. Refusing to cooperate is Resisting an Officer without Violence – another crime on top of her Driving while license suspended or revoked. Then she didn’t need subduing she needed convincing, correct? Its not as though she were violent or posed a immediate danger to the officer. > [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > You guys can argue all day about Tasers and whether cops should have them. Personally I think their one of the greatest new tools out there! But _this_ particular officer’s actions were practically textbook! He acted perfectly, according to FL law, police ethics and departmental SOP. Nothing he could have done better. A criminal was arrested and no one was hurt - officer or criminal. Nothing he could have done better? How about wait more than 15 seconds before pulling his taser on someone? Honestly if Flordia’s “textbook” is to electrocute someone without at least a legitimate effort in cajoling then that book needs to be re-written. I have no problem with cops having tasers but I want them used against beligerent suspects not a woman on her cell phone. I also find it odd that after all of your warnings and arguments about how the taser is so much better than physical contact that you believe this offer could not have done any better. He requested that the woman get off of her phone and when she refused the very first thing he did was remove the physical barrier between them. Then he tried to reach in and wrestle her out of the car a mere 10 seconds after her first refusal. I hate making the slippier slope argument but lets be honest here there isn’t that much room to slide down. Whats next? If an officer stops me on the street and asks me for ID and I say no I don’t want to. Can he whip out his taser and shock me until I will? > [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > I don’t know how people think she wasn’t argumentative. She didn’t stop yelling from the time she was pulled over, til the time she was tasered. You can even hear her when the cop is standing nowhere near her. Listen closely to her yelling in the background. She never stopped. She did not raise her voice until after she was tased. She sounded perfectly calm and rational to me albeit noncompliant with the officers request. **drachillax** , I know it might sound crazy but there may be a difference between an armed robber and a traffic violater. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taser-use-justified/307161.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taser-use-justified/307161.md?page=7)