# Tattoo of the Tetragrammaton **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 10, 2010, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tattoo-of-the-tetragrammaton/538975 "2010-05-10T22:57:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tattoo-of-the-tetragrammaton/538975/81 "2010-05-11T17:40:27Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > The difference is that she probably risks, at most, a rolleyes from some observant Jew who happens to see it. Well, we’re addressing the feelings of offense, not the actions taken because of them. I don’t believe I ever implied that the Jewish Terror League would show up and behead her for the affront. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tattoo-of-the-tetragrammaton/538975/82 "2010-05-11T17:40:38Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I think I already have figured it out. The “offense” is visceral, but essentially irrational. Is that not the case with all offense based on (mis)use of symbols? To my mind, that is no reason to go around giving the offense in question. Myself, I’m not offended in the slightest by this tattoo. But not giving offense to those who have not merited any by taking an action I know will give offense (however “irrational” I happen to judge it) seems a pretty straightforward application of the Golden Rule. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tattoo-of-the-tetragrammaton/538975/83 "2010-05-11T17:44:12Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > Well, we’re addressing the feelings of offense, not the actions taken because of them. I don’t believe I ever implied that the Jewish Terror League would show up and behead her for the affront. Then what is the relevance of the example you gave? The reason the “furor” over the drawing Mohammed issue became (in)famous is exactly because of the violent reaction triggered by the “offense”. If Muslims worldwide had simply _said_ “please don’t do it, we don’t like it”, I’d have no criticism of them for that. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tattoo-of-the-tetragrammaton/538975/84 "2010-05-11T17:46:08Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Then what is the relevance of the example you gave? The reason the “furor” over the drawing Mohammed issue became (in)famous is exactly because of the violent reaction triggered by the “offense”. > > If Muslims worldwide had simply _said_ “please don’t do it, we don’t like it”, I’d have no criticism of them for that. I would, and did. And still do. It was a caricature. Nobody should care. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tattoo-of-the-tetragrammaton/538975/85 "2010-05-11T17:48:43Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Is that not the case with all offense based on (mis)use of symbols? Yes. I don’t see any reason to care about _any_ of them. I don’t get why there should be a special exception for this one. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tattoo-of-the-tetragrammaton/538975/86 "2010-05-11T17:51:16Z")
[Wear One](http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://store.higherheart.com/shopimages/products/normal/Tetragrammaton-Pentacle-Pendant.jpg&imgrefurl=http://store.higherheart.com/product.php/Tetragrammaton-Pendant/1157/0&h=400&w=349&sz=48&tbnid=hDGuAv1UxSwTSM:&tbnh=124&tbnw=108&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtetragrammaton&usg=__HQhUBNeFYLWNi8DRBa_zYGjl-LQ=&ei=C5bpS5S8M4O4swOIk5neBw&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=4&ct=image&ved=0CC0Q9QEwAw) first, see how she likes it. 1) Living in the world, you do not have a right NOT to be offended, nor does she have the right NOT to be confronted should her display offend 2) It is her body. Even the seemingly stupid choices are freedom in its’ purest form. 3) Symbology is subjective to history. The odds are fair that few people, even Jews would recognize that one right away and immediately launch to offense. Bottom line, she’s not talking about inking herself up and wandering naked through a Sader, she’s putting a symbol she likes where she likes it. It’s her business and that’s that. It’s a perfectly fine idea for her. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tattoo-of-the-tetragrammaton/538975/87 "2010-05-11T17:55:25Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Yes. I don’t see any reason to care about _any_ of them. I don’t get why there should be a special exception for this one. Do you see anyone asking for a “special exception”? Please point out where. If you, or anyone, want to offend someone, go right ahead; free country and all that. No-one is claiming she should be _prevented_ by force or law from doing it. It is the flipside of freedom of speech - you can say what you like, and others are equally free to think you are an ass for saying it. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tattoo-of-the-tetragrammaton/538975/88 "2010-05-11T17:55:54Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I think I already have figured it out. The “offense” is visceral, but essentially irrational. Well, yeah. But irrational doesn’t mean imaginary. ---
**Author:** ![cjepson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9adbd/32.png) [@cjepson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cjepson)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tattoo-of-the-tetragrammaton/538975/89 "2010-05-11T17:57:21Z")
The OP’s explanation of why this person wants this tattoo raises a separate issue that doesn’t seem to have been addressed yet. It sounds like this person is into spiritualisticizational kinda stuff, and may consider this tattoo to in fact have some sort of power. If so, then they might want to consider whether doing this might actually bring some negative karma down on them. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tattoo-of-the-tetragrammaton/538975/90 "2010-05-11T17:57:22Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > I would, and did. And still do. It was a caricature. Nobody should care. The difference between us is I am not out to say what people should or should not care about. Lots of people care about stuff I don’t. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tattoo-of-the-tetragrammaton/538975/91 "2010-05-11T20:49:43Z")
I’m all for co opting, rebranding, and reowning. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tattoo-of-the-tetragrammaton/538975/92 "2010-05-11T21:03:14Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I don’t understand how anybody is injured by it. I don’t think anyone is saying that anyone _would_ be “injured” by it. I find it _mildly_ offensive, but the person who would be most injured by it is the tattoo-bearer, in that I strongly suspect that most Jews she met would not think highly of someone who would get that symbol as a tattoo. If I, hypothetically, saw that tattoo on someone I actually knew, and wasn’t just walking past them on the street, I would probably ask about it. If they gave the explanation provided in this thread, I wouldn’t say anything, or tell her I’m offended, but I would mentally tag her with a “dipshit” label. Like I said earlier in this thread, if that is a non-issue for her, then she should go for it. No one is being injured. Jews aren’t special. Everyone is free to think everyone’s tattoos are stupid, or be offended that their cultural symbols are being misappropriated. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tattoo-of-the-tetragrammaton/538975/93 "2010-05-11T21:08:11Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > I don’t think anyone is saying Jews get to be special. Actually, that seems to be exactly what people are saying. > [@](#): > > The question just happened to relate to a specifically Jewish symbol that had a specific prohibition against being written. This particular tattoo uses another culture’s symbol in a specifically prohibited way. Prohibited by who? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tattoo-of-the-tetragrammaton/538975/94 "2010-05-11T21:23:39Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Actually, that seems to be exactly what people are saying. No, they are saying the opposite. Repeatedly. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tattoo-of-the-tetragrammaton/538975/95 "2010-05-11T21:33:17Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Actually, that seems to be exactly what people are saying.Prohibited by who? No. Jews may be offened by this particular usage, but people of other religions are entiltled to feel offened if their sacred images were misused. Prohibited by Jewish law to be written in a nonsacred way in general. No secular law prohibits her from doing what she wants. ---
**Author:** ![Nancarrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c37758/32.png) [@Nancarrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nancarrow)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tattoo-of-the-tetragrammaton/538975/96 "2010-05-11T21:36:34Z")
> [@](#): > > salt, sulfur, mercury and water (which is the 4 elements that make up the human body - This is deeply offensive to reality. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tattoo-of-the-tetragrammaton/538975/97 "2010-05-11T21:41:31Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I think I already have figured it out. The “offense” is visceral, but essentially irrational. It really is starting to piss me off that I keep having to explain this. If you offend someone, they will feel the need to offend you back. And since you are not offended by symbols, they’ll find something to use that’s offensive to you. Not everyone will respond as such, but, with something like a tattoo, you’ll be showing it off to enough people that you will run into someone who will respond. And if you think you somehow cannot be offended, I’d be willing to offer you some in a place where it wouldn’t get me in trouble with the mods. Just be forewarned: it would involve your daughters. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tattoo-of-the-tetragrammaton/538975/98 "2010-05-11T21:43:44Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > I don’t think anyone is saying that anyone _would_ be “injured” by it. I find it _mildly_ offensive, but the person who would be most injured by it is the tattoo-bearer, in that I strongly suspect that most Jews she met would not think highly of someone who would get that symbol as a tattoo. If I, hypothetically, saw that tattoo on someone I actually knew, and wasn’t just walking past them on the street, I would probably ask about it. If they gave the explanation provided in this thread, I wouldn’t say anything, or tell her I’m offended, but I would mentally tag her with a “dipshit” label. > > Like I said earlier in this thread, if that is a non-issue for her, then she should go for it. No one is being injured. > > Jews aren’t special. Everyone is free to think everyone’s tattoos are stupid, or be offended that their cultural symbols are being misappropriated. I’m fine with all this, but she used the word, “hurt,” which seemed odd to me. If I see somebody even with a patently hostile or offensive tattoo (like a swastika), I mentally file the person as an asswipe, and possibly dangerous, but I don’t feel personally “hurt.” ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tattoo-of-the-tetragrammaton/538975/99 "2010-05-11T21:47:06Z")
The tattoo she’s suggesting is unlikely to be helpful in life, and is quite likely to cause some problems for her down the road. A tattoo of a rose/dolphin/etc. does not have the same sh!tstorm-inducing potential. Imagine she walks into a job interview and the HR director is devoutly Jewish. (Wave bye-bye to the nice job, sweetie!) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tattoo-of-the-tetragrammaton/538975/100 "2010-05-11T21:47:47Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > And if you think you somehow cannot be offended, I’d be willing to offer you some in a place where it wouldn’t get me in trouble with the mods. Just be forewarned: it would involve your daughters. Don’t be a jerk, **BigT** ; this is threatening and totally inappropriate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tattoo-of-the-tetragrammaton/538975.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tattoo-of-the-tetragrammaton/538975.md?page=6)