# Tattoo policies in the workplace - advice sought **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 1, 2012, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tattoo-policies-in-the-workplace-advice-sought/623741 "2012-06-01T05:49:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tattoo-policies-in-the-workplace-advice-sought/623741/82 "2012-06-02T16:06:53Z")
> [@SylverOne](#): > > I’ve never said I intend to cause a ‘disruption of the employer’s operation.’ I’m not going to give them a reason to fire me. I will play their stupid game until I get the resolution I would like. I will wear a cuff bracelet when I’m outside of my office. If that turns out to not be good enough for the powers that be, or they are completely inflexible with the new policy, I will continue to play the game until I find a new job. Have you looked into the kind of wrist brace that people with Carpal Tunnel Syndrome wear? Those might do a better job of covering the tattoo which you said wasn’t covered completely by the cuff bracelet… ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tattoo-policies-in-the-workplace-advice-sought/623741/83 "2012-06-02T16:31:54Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Visible while in uniform when they were in? No. But i think that that **ladyfoxfyre** ’s more general point stands: given the number of military personnel who have tattoos, it seems rather unlikely that many of them would actually find tattoos offensive, or would cease doing business with a company because one or two employees have tatts. You can’t turn a corner here in San Diego without running into a tattoo parlor, and the military make up a huge percentage of their business. I’ve seen new recruits with tattoos; i’ve seen retired officers with tattoos. Anyone who has spent any time in the military has worked and socialized with literally hundreds, probably thousands, of tattooed servicemen and women. I just find it hard to believe that there’s any sort of substantial anti-tattoo conservatism in the forces, to the extent that it would lose business for a company that works with military and former military folks. It seems to me that **Crafter\_Man** , like the OP’s bank, is actually far more conservative in his policies than his customers would be. I think that most customers, in most businesses, are far more concerned with tangible issues like good service and reasonable pricing, and that even socially conservative customers who dislike tattoos would be incredibly unlikely to stop using a good company just because of some tattoos on a few of the employees. > [@SylverOne](#): > > I’ve never said I intend to cause a ‘disruption of the employer’s operation.’ I never said you were. The point i was making is that the company might argue that your tattoos, in and of themselves, constitute a disruption to their operations. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tattoo-policies-in-the-workplace-advice-sought/623741/84 "2012-06-02T16:49:03Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > No. > > But i think that that **ladyfoxfyre** ’s more general point stands: given the number of military personnel who have tattoos, it seems rather unlikely that many of them would actually find tattoos offensive, or would cease doing business with a company because one or two employees have tatts. > > You can’t turn a corner here in San Diego without running into a tattoo parlor, and the military make up a huge percentage of their business. I’ve seen new recruits with tattoos; i’ve seen retired officers with tattoos. Anyone who has spent any time in the military has worked and socialized with literally hundreds, probably thousands, of tattooed servicemen and women. I just find it hard to believe that there’s any sort of substantial anti-tattoo conservatism in the forces, to the extent that it would lose business for a company that works with military and former military folks. > > It seems to me that **Crafter\_Man** , like the OP’s bank, is actually far more conservative in his policies than his customers would be. I think that most customers, in most businesses, are far more concerned with tangible issues like good service and reasonable pricing, and that even socially conservative customers who dislike tattoos would be incredibly unlikely to stop using a good company just because of some tattoos on a few of the employees. Yeah, I know, I lived in San Diego for eight years. Crafter is only asking of his employees what the military asks of their enlisted and officers. The same exact thing. It’s certainly not what I would do though. I work at a very well respected high tech firm. If such a rule was put in place where I work, we’d lose the Director of Manufacturing and the VP of Engineering among many others. Banking is way more conservative though. The OP is wise to move to a different sector. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tattoo-policies-in-the-workplace-advice-sought/623741/85 "2012-06-02T18:32:46Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > You know, I have a good friend who’s first awareness of tattoos were the concentration camp numbers scrawled on his mother’s arm. He doesn’t like tattoos. He _tolerates_ them because, as noted, so many young people have them and it would be hard to hire people completely free of them in his industry these days. However, give two equal candidates with the only difference one is tattooed and one is not he’s going to pick the ink-free every time. If the guy with the tats is _better_ sure, he’ll take them, but I don’t ever expect he’s going to change his base opinion. > > His mother, of course, is never going to “get over herself”. For her, being tattooed meant having guns pointed at her, having someone hold her down while the tat was applied, rape, beating, starvation, more beatings, more starvation, watching people die around her, rinse and repeat for several years. She was around 14 when it all started, if I recall. Can you understand why she is so down on the idea of inked skin? > > Show a little sensitivity to those old folks who are anti-tattoo - some of them have quite a bit of trauma around the concept. Prior to around 1980 tattoos were found on criminals, prisoners, and victims of the Nazis. 30 years of growing tolerance is usually not going to wipe out 40-50 years of prior conditioning in someone 70 or 80 years old. I understand your point, but on a practical basis the number of forcibly tattooed concentration camp survivors still alive today who are personally interfacing with the US banking system is an infinitesimally small number relative to any retail bank’s customer base. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tattoo-policies-in-the-workplace-advice-sought/623741/86 "2012-06-02T18:49:47Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Crafter is only asking of his employees what the military asks of their enlisted and officers. The same exact thing. I guess, but i’m not sure that’s a very convincing explanation. I’ve met lots of military folks since i moved to Southern California. They’re students in my classes, they’re the guys and women i play softball with, and they’re the people who work out in my gym. And every single one of them, as far as i can tell, recognizes that the military does things differently, and that the standards that they are expected to uphold while in uniform don’t necessarily apply elsewhere. I’ve never heard one of them whine about the DMV employee or the bank teller with a tattoo, or complain that "If i can’t have visible tattoos, why can they?"I’ve never heard a marine moan about the fact that my hair is longer than theirs, or that the guy who works in the local bar is allowed to have a green streak along with his six piercings. My point, i guess, is precisely that there’s no need for non-military businesses to have the same requirements as the military, just because they happen to deal with folks who are, or have been, in the military. In the days before the repeal of DADT, how many people would have supported a company discharging a gay employee just because that’s the same standard that the military upheld? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tattoo-policies-in-the-workplace-advice-sought/623741/87 "2012-06-02T18:58:40Z")
Unless **Crafter Man** owns the company, they aren’t “his” employees. He’s posted no clarification of the situation, so I am going with he’s just using his supervisory position as a way to throw his weight around and enforce a personal preference on other employees. I’ve dealt with the type before. They always have a hard-on about something…hair length, tattoos, skirt length, you name it…there’s a petty tyrant out there somewhere who gets off enforcing his personal preferences on it. I’ve taken some pleasure over the years as a union officer in telling such bullies to “MYOFB, tend to your job’s real responsibilities, and let my client tend to his/hers.” Alas, the people \*\*Crafty \*\*bullies apparently don’t work in a union environment. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tattoo-policies-in-the-workplace-advice-sought/623741/88 "2012-06-02T19:42:07Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > And visible tattoos on enlisted men in uniform are not permitted - they must be covered. Did you read **hajario’s** link? It said visible is ok as long as it doesn’t exceed 1/4 of the exposed body part. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tattoo-policies-in-the-workplace-advice-sought/623741/89 "2012-06-02T19:54:41Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Unless **Crafter Man** owns the company, they aren’t “his” employees. He’s posted no clarification of the situation, so I am going with he’s just using his supervisory position as a way to throw his weight around and enforce a personal preference on other employees. I’ve dealt with the type before. They always have a hard-on about something…hair length, tattoos, skirt length, you name it…there’s a petty tyrant out there somewhere who gets off enforcing his personal preferences on it. I’ve taken some pleasure over the years as a union officer in telling such bullies to “MYOFB, tend to your job’s real responsibilities, and let my client tend to his/hers.” Alas, the people \*\*Crafty \*\*bullies apparently don’t work in a union environment. I’m a supervisor and if I wanted to let someone go because I just plain old didn’t like them, my boss wouldn’t stand in my way. Not that I would. But if your boss doesn’t like you, you can hold on for dear life and hope you outlast him as your boss, but don’t expect the company in a non-union shop to stop him. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tattoo-policies-in-the-workplace-advice-sought/623741/90 "2012-06-02T19:58:14Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > Did you read **hajario’s** link? It said visible is ok as long as it doesn’t exceed 1/4 of the exposed body part. Yes, and it also says nothing above the collarbone, one of the tattoos in question is on her lower neck. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tattoo-policies-in-the-workplace-advice-sought/623741/91 "2012-06-02T21:10:08Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Tough shit. You obviously have no understanding of post traumatic stress disorders. I’m not asking you to remove your tattoos to make her world happy, I’m asking you to understand that _for her_ tattoos are inextricably connected to trauma. You’re insisting that your personal choices be embraced by everyone, thereby denying them their choice to not like what you like even if they have some pretty damn good reasons to dislike something. That level of trauma is not something you just “get over” because some young’un doesn’t think you’re hip enough. snip. I understand it fine, I simply don’t give a shit. I’m hardly insisting that my choices be embraced by everyone. I could care less if someone hates tattoos. If they want to be an irrational ass, then so be it. The problem arises when the hatred is completely unrelated to the person, or the subject of the tattoo. Simply hating on someone for having one is idiotic, bigoted, and just as bad as hating on someone for any other lifestyle choice. When we make a blanket policy to give those whiny babies their bottle, we are engaging in tacit approval of intolerance. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tattoo-policies-in-the-workplace-advice-sought/623741/92 "2012-06-02T22:09:36Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Yes, and it also says nothing above the collarbone, one of the tattoos in question is on her lower neck. Yes, true, but this was your post: > [@Dangerosa](#): > > And visible tattoos on enlisted men in uniform are not permitted - they must be covered. I was pointing out that what you wrote is not correct. They are allowed to have visible tattoos. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tattoo-policies-in-the-workplace-advice-sought/623741/93 "2012-06-02T22:11:09Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > Yes, true, but this was your post: > > I was pointing out that what you wrote is not correct. > > They are allowed to have visible tattoos. You are right, but its a very narrow range of permissible. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tattoo-policies-in-the-workplace-advice-sought/623741/94 "2012-06-02T22:12:22Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > snip. > > I understand it fine, I simply don’t give a shit. I’m hardly insisting that my choices be embraced by everyone. I could care less if someone hates tattoos. If they want to be an irrational ass, then so be it. The problem arises when the hatred is completely unrelated to the person, or the subject of the tattoo. Simply hating on someone for having one is idiotic, bigoted, and just as bad as hating on someone for any other lifestyle choice. When we make a blanket policy to give those whiny babies their bottle, we are engaging in tacit approval of intolerance. Would you say the same thing about dress codes? Businesses routinely set rules about employees appearance. Whether it can be scientifically proven that any of those rules are valuable or not is a different story, but having rules about tattoos isn’t really different from being forced to wear long pants, or wear a suit, etc. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tattoo-policies-in-the-workplace-advice-sought/623741/95 "2012-06-02T22:14:58Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > You are right, but its a very narrow range of permissible. It’s certainly somewhat restrictive, but 1/4 of the portion of my arm that is showing in short sleeves is a pretty good sized tattoo. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tattoo-policies-in-the-workplace-advice-sought/623741/96 "2012-06-02T22:16:05Z")
The other point about the tattoos the Nazis created is that they did this, in part, _because_ they knew how offensive it was to Jews ([cite](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_tattooing#The_Jewish_Positions) that tattoos are forbidden within Judaism). Obviously, being forcibly tattooed against your will is not a violation of Jewish law, but at the same time Nazis knew that Jews did not tattoo themselves recreationally. Some Jews, on the other hand, feel that the very Holocaust itself changes this prohibition, and have tattoos explicitly in solidarity with the survivors. I can’t cite this¹ as I learned about it in an academic conference paper (given by a Jewish scholar: it was called “Jews with Tattoos”). There is, of course, no absolute consensus within the Jewish community. The point is, the fact that the Nazis forcibly tattooed Jews is an important factor in the discussion, but Jews themselves have reacted in different ways: like **Broomstick’s** friend, in exactly the opposite way from **Broomstick’s** friend, and by continuing or ignoring the cultural prohibition on tattoos without considering the Holocaust. Therefore, people who are not Jewish, but still respect those who perished in the Holocaust and those who survived it, can’t really follow the definitive Jewish position on the subject. There isn’t one. ¹ Well, I sort of can: Heather Joseph-Witham, “Scenes from the Jewish Body: Jews with Tattoos.” Paper presented at the U.C.L.A. Jewish Folklore Conference, Feb. 10, 1997; and presented in a slightly altered form for the Armand Hammer Museum’s Teachers In-Service Day, Feb. 9, 1997. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tattoo-policies-in-the-workplace-advice-sought/623741/97 "2012-06-02T23:36:47Z")
According to an article from Fox News (I know Fox might not be the best source), about 25% of Americans aged 18-50 have a tattoo. My advice to anyone wanting to get a tattoo would be to avoid getting one that cannot easily be covered up. This doesn’t really help the OP thought. I think the best advice for the OP is to comply with the policy as best you can. There’s nothing wrong with talking to management about the policy. If you have a good relationship with them then I think you can talk to them without being branded a “trouble maker.” ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tattoo-policies-in-the-workplace-advice-sought/623741/98 "2012-06-03T01:00:31Z")
> [@SylverOne](#): > > **Broomstick** , throughout man’s time on this earth, we have done unthinkable things to our fellow human beings. But I’ll be damned if I’ll live my life trying not to offend people who’s troubles, (a) I have knowledge of, and (b) am not personally responsible for. > > I have empathy for them, but I can’t fix their issues. Madam (for some reason I have the impression you’re a woman) you have demonstrated reasonableness in your posts about your work vs. tattoo conflict. That wasn’t directed so much at you as at **Acid Lamp’s** attitude of “screw them if they don’t like it”. For every positive use of tattoos - decoration, identification, rite of passage - there has been a negative use to mark prisoners, slaves, criminals, outcasts, etc. The notion that suddenly more than half the populace is now in favor of tattoos is, I think, in error. I think there are quite a few who _tolerate_ them grudgingly, because in a civilized society you sometimes have to tolerate what you find distasteful, but if they had their druthers inked skin wouldn’t happen. In [this article](http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/t/tattoos/index.html) it claims only slightly more than a third of people 25-29 had tattoos, and overall only 16% of adults. That’s hardly a ringing endorsement from the majority. I do think your company has a shit policy not only for imposing a tattoo-free appearance on those who have no face-to-face public or customer contact (as someone else noted, I don’t know and don’t care if the person I’m talking to on the phone has tats). It’s irrelevant to getting your job done. I also think they’re shits for not grandfathering employees who already have tattoos, because it’s not like you can have them removed over the weekend. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tattoo-policies-in-the-workplace-advice-sought/623741/99 "2012-06-03T01:05:19Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > The other point about the tattoos the Nazis created is that they did this, in part, _because_ they knew how offensive it was to Jews ([cite](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_tattooing#The_Jewish_Positions) that tattoos are forbidden within Judaism). Obviously, being forcibly tattooed against your will is not a violation of Jewish law, but at the same time Nazis knew that Jews did not tattoo themselves recreationally. Some Jews, on the other hand, feel that the very Holocaust itself changes this prohibition, and have tattoos explicitly in solidarity with the survivors. I can’t cite this¹ as I learned about it in an academic conference paper (given by a Jewish scholar: it was called “Jews with Tattoos”). There is, of course, no absolute consensus within the Jewish community. > > The point is, the fact that the Nazis forcibly tattooed Jews is an important factor in the discussion, but Jews themselves have reacted in different ways: like **Broomstick’s** friend, in exactly the opposite way from **Broomstick’s** friend, and by continuing or ignoring the cultural prohibition on tattoos without considering the Holocaust. You know, that’s all very interesting, except the friends I mentioned aren’t and never have been Jewish. They were and are Catholic Austrians. Or did you think it was _just_ the Jews who were thrown into camps and forcibly tattooed? _Everyone_ held prisoner in those camps had their ID numbers tattooed on thm. It had nothing (or very little) to do with being Jewish. I don’t think the guys doing it knew or cared about Jewish law, they just viewed it as a convenient way to track people. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tattoo-policies-in-the-workplace-advice-sought/623741/100 "2012-06-03T01:23:28Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > You know, that’s all very interesting, except the friends I mentioned aren’t and never have been Jewish. They were and are Catholic Austrians. Or did you think it was _just_ the Jews who were thrown into camps and forcibly tattooed? _Everyone_ held prisoner in those camps had their ID numbers tattooed on thm. It had nothing (or very little) to do with being Jewish. I don’t think the guys doing it knew or cared about Jewish law, they just viewed it as a convenient way to track people. I’m aware that a substantial minority of holocaust victims were not Jewish, and I’m aware that these people were also tattooed. I was not aware that your friends were Catholic Austrians—how could I be? When someone brings up victims of the Nazis with no other contextual information, I think it’s reasonable to assume we’re talking about Jewish people, especially given that group’s historic relationship with tattoos. I disagree with you about the Nazis’ awareness of the tattoo prohibition but I’m not certain where to go for a definitive answer. I don’t think any of this really affects my point, though: people who were forcibly tattooed by the Nazis have different reactions to contemporary tattoos, so you cannot make your decisions regarding tattoos contingent upon how they, as a group, would react. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tattoo-policies-in-the-workplace-advice-sought/623741/101 "2012-06-03T01:53:11Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > I’m aware that a substantial minority of holocaust victims were not Jewish, and I’m aware that these people were also tattooed. As many non-Jews died in the the WWII camps as Jews, so I would not call them a “minority”, they were half the people involved. As far as people \*imprisoned \*go, more were non-Jewish than Jewish although unquestionably Jews were one of the larger identified groups. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tattoo-policies-in-the-workplace-advice-sought/623741.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tattoo-policies-in-the-workplace-advice-sought/623741.md?page=6)