I knew someone like neutro. Endlessly whined and complained about taxes, especially taxes that went towards helping the community. Taxes for education? My kid isn’t in school anymore, so why should I pay a cent? Taxes for public transit? I don’t use the bus, so why should I pay a cent? Always endless me, me, me talk, without a single concept in their head of how paying their taxes helped them in the bigger picture. Of course, their gotcha for why their taxes wasn’t helping them was corruption in the system. They believed even if having an educated workforce would help them find better employees for their business, that wasn’t going to happen, because lazy teachers would just take the higher pay and not work. Or government officials would take the money and not fix the roads. Always a pointing finger at everybody else while they whined about everything under the sun. I should’ve asked if they were willing to repave the potholes they care so much about, personally, rather than depend on the local town to do it. I imagine they would have balked at the suggestion that they pay to make their own lives better if it managed to also help anyone else. Because they made it clear they were only in it for themselves and *nobody *else. I think this attitude is the clear problem with what’s going on in America today. And the saddest part is, guys like this and neutro think that they’re part of the elite wealthy we’re always talking about! Not even close. They’re making pennies compared to the people bringing in the real wealth inequality in this country. But they still can’t even recognize that they’re making dozens of times more than the average American and their lives aren’t even remotely difficult, and they still wouldn’t be even remotely difficult if they were taxed more. But of course, how dare anyone propose you give appropriately back into the system that helps generate your wealth?
Why yes, I absolutely DO have a lot of resentment towards the guy who wanted to lie his way out of worker’s comp and refused to give his employees any sick days or paid vacation, but would whine to me about how his wife keeps buying designer dresses and his second home is so cold. I really weep for you, man. It must be so fucking hard to have a conversation at your open desk about reinvesting that quarter mil in what your financial advisor recommends. Just the worst.
Most wealth tax proposals are a few percent, so in this example, they would have a tax bill ~$5 million, not 30.
Do you have anyone in mind who has proposed a 15% wealth tax?
People would only be working for “free” if they had a 100% tax on their next dollar. I don’t see any proposals to that.
So, everyone gets your $10k deduction, then pays 100% of their next $25,000?
If you think that having to pay 39% rather than 35% on your marginal income will disincentivize you to work hard, what disincentive do you think that your plan will have on the working class, now that they are working for free?
The government that we get then is very weak, and is not able to provide the resources that you take for granted that allow you to make millions of dollars and enjoy your Ferrari and beach house.
When Somalia is pointed out, you seem to get upset. But tell you what, you say that taxes are too high, so, you point to the country that has lower taxes than the US that has the living conditions that you would find acceptable.
When you say that the govt should “live within it’s means” what specifically are you talking about cutting out of the budget. You can tell your family that the have to live within their means, but if that just means that you stop paying the bills, without actually reducing the costs, then you just find yourself homeless and hungry.
You also said that taxes are too high. That is what they said back in Reagan days, when he cut them from the 70’s. That was what was said for every time that they have been cut. They were too high before this last round of tax cuts, but according to you, they are still too high. Is there a tax rate that isn’t too high, or is paying taxes at all always going to be “too high”? Can you point to another country that has the tax rate that you would find acceptable?
Well, cap gains are entirely untaxed until realized, dividends are taxed at preferential rates, dividends are not double taxed on pass through entities (which are the vast majority of businesses in the U.S.), and dividends from pass through entities are also taxed at even more preferential rates. But aside from that, everything you said makes lots of sense. :dubious:
You are parading your ignorance here. This is like saying “gravity is just a theory!”
So, you had no interest in what the government did before then? And we’re supposed to respect your judgment on the way the government should run now?
In total, I’ve paid way more than $500k in personal federal income taxes, although it takes me several years to total up to that amount. Does that give me the right to have an opinion or am I too poor to care about?
I think it’s kinda gross when people who succeed in America, instead of thinking “I’ve achieved a lot due to America’s unique blend of opportunities; how can we see that others have the same opportunities to succeed?,” instead say something along the lines of “Fuck you all, I’m better than you because I’m rich and I did it all by myself in a vacuum. I got mine so fuck off!”
Nope. A wealth tax is a transfer of wealth. Whether wealth is increased or destroyed depends on how the capital is used.
This seems arbitrary. Where do you get the idea that $100k in taxes is enough to fund the government, which let’s not forget, fostered the favorable environment in which you had the opportunity to make $2 million in one year?
So the government should subsidize you because you are so brilliant? Where is the underfunded government you want to create supposed to get the money for those subsidies. You want privatized gains but socialized losses. That’s not capitalism. It’s fine if you hate capitalism. Some of us still like it.
Wait, you “gave” them stock, out of the kindness of your heart? Can I get some? Or do you mean you paid them partially in stock? Because that’s not giving. They earned their millions every bit as much as you earned yours. Why should you feel so entitled to take credit for their money?
Wealth taxes don’t chip away at the economic base; they transfer it to different hands.
Real economies run better in the real world when the government can take measures to enact counter-cyclical stimulus. Ideally, that means dropping taxes and increasing spending in recessions when money and often labor are cheap. The government can borrow money, invest in public goods, hire workers, and stimulate the economy. The government should pay it back when the economy improves, it raises taxes, and reduces spending. This means that the government should be constantly tweaking tax rates as just one economic lever.
Can’t you though? Sometimes I think the problem with the well-to-do is not having to experience a daily existential crisis for want of money has robbed them of perspective, and along with it, their humanity. Helping them to reconnect with their countrymen and fellow earthlings, in order to preserve the person’s very humanity, is as good a reason as any to tax unearned income at 99% or higher. Oh, they’ll howl about how it’s unfair and make up all kinds of reasons for why the rest of the world should do the actual work of being civilized, but a few months of living from obscene paycheck to obscene paycheck will at least maybe force them to acknowledge the ravages of poverty in their very own society. Well, probably not, but at least the assholes won’t be obscenely rich at the expense of the less fortunate. And they wonder why the proletariat hate them so!
Much of that is not “investment capital”, but simply an investment.
If I invest in a small growing company, that’s investment capital. I have taken a big risk, and the reward should be relative.
If I invest in a blue chip, then I do so with the expectation that that’s just going to make me money, that’s just an investment.
People still seem to be acting in a supply side mentality, even though it has been shown over and over that trickle down is invalid as an economic theory. We have a consumer driven economy. Companies will not invest in more production if there is not demand for it, no matter the tax breaks you give them. Companies will not hire workers if there is no demand for the goods and services that they create, no matter how subsidized. Companies make investments in labor and capital when, and only when, they see that there will be more demand for their product than what can be produced with their existing resources.
I think it was in this thread or maybe another that someone was complaining that a tax on trades would make high frequency trading no longer viable. I see that as a feature, not a bug. High frequency trades do not add anything to the economy, in fact, they siphon off money that could be used for actual investment capital, and increase the volatility and risk of bubbles. If you place an order to purchase 100 shares of Widget’s Inc., and someone sees that you have posted that order, and because they have software that sees these trades faster than they are executed, it buys up the lot that you were going to buy, and then sells it to you for a slightly higher price, what value have they added? In cases like those, where their profit comes directly at the expense of the economy, what sense does it make to reward and encourage them to make more money?
Where do you think they get the capital to invest in that demand growth?
You may see it as that, and you are limited in what you see. The trading of equity securities is what makes the investing in companies more attractive for the investors. It is the liquidity of that investment that allows the investment to be more attractive to the investor. Without the liquidity of the security, many companies wouldn’t be able to issue more stock to raise capital for expansions, growth, etc.
So even investing in a well established publicly traded company, is creating jobs, products, etc.
Where do I get my capital to grow my business? I don’t have any billionaires giving me investments. How many small business start ups do you think are funded by billionaires?
Banks and loans are a good place. Getting it from customers from previous sales as well. That’s the cool thing about a business, as long as you keep your money in it, it avoids quite a bit of taxation.
An investor that just looks at stock price, and doesn’t look at actual cash flow and P/E ratios (and a list of metrics I don’t feel like listing right now)is a fool.
Inflating these bubbles of speculative value contributes nothing of value to the economy.
Ah, so when the investor leaves his money in the business it funds growth, just as a shareholder in Amazon, Walmart, Netflix, Google, etc. their profits are used to fund growth within those businesses, which is still capital investment.
As normal, you completely missed the point.
This is really what you think?
I came here to try and give a bit of perspective to a thread about what it’s like to actually pay taxes on that level. It’s not pleasant.
I’ve been told I have a small penis. I’ve been told I have it easy. I’ve been told I don’t appreciate what the country has done for me. I’ve been told over and over how I didn’t earn that money and you all can take as much of it as you want, and it’s justified.
You all can go fuck yourselves. You are completely delusional if you think money solves all the problems in life.
Also fuck you.
You people are fucking insane. You think having a few bucks removes all the barriers in life?
Fucking delusional.
Mods please delete my account from this board and the fucking losers on here.
[clutches pearls]
Read for comprehension, friend. Having NO bucks throws up very real barriers which your ilk seem pleased to turn a blind eye to.
Take meds, it may help. I’m sure you won’t need to worry about the doctor bill.
No need to make this their problem. Just log out and exercise self-restraint. Poor people have to exercise restraint all the time when they decide to feed their own rations to the kids.
“Oh Jeeves! JEEVES! I say! Delete my account for me!” 
I’ll give you the small penis one (which was in response to boasting about a Ferrari), but where, oh where, were you told how you “didn’t earn that money and you all can take as much of it as you want, and it’s justified”.
That sounds like martyrdom on a pretty substantial level.
I think what people are pretty shocked by is that you won’t acknowledge the enormous amount of money that must be earned to incur a half a million dollar tax liability; a person who feels “pain” in having to pay that amount must necessarily feel the “pleasure” of earning magnitudes more than the typical person. In that sense, the “pain” of a high tax bill seems trivial - I’m certain that you have other stressors and difficulties in life (we all do), but this is hardly one to complain about.
No, this is IMHO. I gave my opinion; if you don’t like it, tough. Plus, you don’t get to dictate how or what other people post.
Also, you ignored the issue of a Constitutional Amendment being needed to pass a wealth tax.
And privately held companies don’t create jobs? Startups which have not yet IPOed don’t create jobs?
The fact is, these days the need for investment is so great that many companies are using their excess cash to buy back stock, which does not create jobs at all. Except maybe for people who sell yachts to the big stockholders whose share value goes up due to fewer shares out there.
Liquidity is good - but the exemplar of liquidity is high speed trading or day trading. Do these create jobs?
Only a few established companies get it by selling stock. Mostly it comes from bonds and for start ups from venture capital. Or bank loans and savings for small businesses.
Forgive me for moving this discussion in another direction - While I am in favor of raising taxes on the rich I dont see how it would be done seeing that the wealthy are careful to donate money to both parties and people like Hilary often give $150,000 speeches to business groups.
I also dont see how to tax the rich since so many of them keep their money offshore.