# Tax: Trump vs Clinton **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 5, 2016, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tax-trump-vs-clinton/767703 "2016-10-05T14:09:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tax-trump-vs-clinton/767703/1 "2016-10-05T14:09:30Z")
Trump is getting a lot of heat for using a dodge to not pay tax. I wonder, how much tax have he and his businesses paid since he was born? How about Clinton? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tax-trump-vs-clinton/767703/2 "2016-10-05T14:12:06Z")
Can’t count his businesses as Clinton has none to compare with. Since he hasn’t paid any personal tax since 1996, I’d say the Clintons are probably ahead. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tax-trump-vs-clinton/767703/3 "2016-10-05T14:37:51Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Can’t count his businesses as Clinton has none to compare with. Since he hasn’t paid any personal tax since 1996, I’d say the Clintons are probably ahead. Quite likely but does anyone have actual facts? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tax-trump-vs-clinton/767703/4 "2016-10-05T14:43:37Z")
Just to be clear, it’s not a “dodge”, unless you’re going to claim that everyone homeowner with a mortgage or every person who takes a dedication for his children or every person who deducts charitable contributions is using a “dodge”. Of course, Hillary uses many “dodges”, too, then. Having said that, I think it’s more likely that HRC paid more personal, federal income tax. But we don’t (and can’t) know for sure. How on earth are you going to find out, for certain, how much federal income tax each paid in the last ~50 years? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tax-trump-vs-clinton/767703/5 "2016-10-05T14:48:25Z")
No, Mace. From a political standpoint it’s a dodge. This highlights one of the fundamental dichotomies with advancing a businessman as a president. The skillsets and behavior patterns are very different. While a businessman - or ordinary citizen - wants to avoid all possible taxes, a politician should be more concerned with being seen to pay taxes to help fund the government s/he wishes to control. Ditto for control. A businessman can become accustomed to running things essentially as a fascism. The guy in charge calls all the shots. That’s simply not possible in a system where he has to worry about other branches and an unruly electorate. Finally, the issue of ‘I’ll run it like a business’ has always been a misapprehension. A business is designed to generate a profit. Government, by design, is designed to NOT make a profit. If one IS running to make a profit there’s some form of corruption going on. In short, businessmen don’t really make good political leaders, despite what people might say. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tax-trump-vs-clinton/767703/6 "2016-10-05T14:50:02Z")
[Presidential Tax Returns](http://www.taxhistory.org/www/website.nsf/web/presidentialtaxreturns) I’ve seen mention that the Clintons have released returns every year since 1977. Since Trump has released none, I’ll say the Clintons win. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tax-trump-vs-clinton/767703/7 "2016-10-05T14:52:21Z")
Why would you ask about taxes since Trump was born? Whether good or bad, Donald shouldn’t take claim for how his dad ran the company. Anyways, Clinton has released years of tax returns so you can easily see what she’s paid. > [@](#): > > In 2015, Clinton paid a federal tax rate of 34.2% and a New York state rate of 9% for a total effective tax rate of 43.2%. Her tax rate has been above 40% every year since she left the state department in 2013. > > Clinton and her husband, Bill, claimed a total income of $10,745,378 in 2015, and paid federal taxes of $3,624,455. [Time:Here’s How Much Hillary Clinton Paid in Taxes Last Year](http://time.com/4450506/hillary-clinton-tax-returns-2015/) ---
**Author:** ![Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Call_Me.Tim)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tax-trump-vs-clinton/767703/8 "2016-10-05T14:58:04Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Quite likely but does anyone have actual facts? Only Donald Trump and, presumably, his accountant(s) and the IRS have access to Donald Trump’s tax returns. ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tax-trump-vs-clinton/767703/9 "2016-10-05T15:23:06Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Trump is getting a lot of heat for using a dodge to not pay tax. Is that true? Trump isn’t getting heat for dodging tax per se, he is getting heat for dodging tax while at the same time calling out others for not paying tax. Trump isn’t getting heat simply because one of his businesses made a loss, he is getting heat because one of his businesses made a loss despite him claiming to be a great businessman and calling others losers. Its not the tax or the loss that he should be getting heat for, its the astounding hypocrisy that the tax and the loss have highlighted. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tax-trump-vs-clinton/767703/10 "2016-10-05T15:29:40Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > Is that true? > > Trump isn’t getting heat for dodging tax per se, he is getting heat for dodging tax while at the same time calling out others for not paying tax. > > Trump isn’t getting heat simply because one of his businesses made a loss, he is getting heat because one of his businesses made a loss despite him claiming to be a great businessman and calling others losers. > > Its not the tax or the loss that he should be getting heat for, its the astounding hypocrisy that the tax and the loss have highlighted. This is exactly what I came here to post. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tax-trump-vs-clinton/767703/11 "2016-10-05T15:33:27Z")
I don’t think it’s fair to say it’s all about the hypocrisy. I think a good number of people are straight up shocked/annoyed that a billionaire may have not paid federal taxes for 20 years full stop, legality be damned. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tax-trump-vs-clinton/767703/12 "2016-10-05T15:49:57Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I don’t think it’s fair to say it’s all about the hypocrisy. I think a good number of people are straight up shocked/annoyed that a billionaire may have not paid federal taxes for 20 years full stop, legality be damned. Agree one hundred percent. I hope in the town hall debate, someone asks both candidates if they feel the tax system is “rigged.” ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tax-trump-vs-clinton/767703/13 "2016-10-05T15:53:40Z")
As I noted in a different thread, there is a monumental hypocrisy coming from Trump, but it should not be ignored that his tax troubles are not only coming from this issue; his “charity”, the so called Trump Foundation, is also a minefield of conflict of interests,\*\* tax evasion\*\* and likely criminal activity. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-directed-23-million-owed-to-him-to-his-charity-instead/2016/09/26/7a9e9fac-8352-11e6-ac72-a29979381495\_story.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-directed-23-million-owed-to-him-to-his-charity-instead/2016/09/26/7a9e9fac-8352-11e6-ac72-a29979381495_story.html) > [@](#): > > Donald Trump’s charitable foundation has received approximately $2.3 million from companies that owed money to Trump or one of his businesses but were instructed to pay Trump’s tax-exempt foundation instead, according to people familiar with the transactions. > > In cases where he diverted his own income to his foundation, tax experts said, Trump would still likely be required to pay taxes on the income. Trump has refused to release his personal tax returns. His campaign said he paid income tax on one of the donations, but did not respond to questions about the others. > > That gift was a $400,000 payment from Comedy Central, which owed Trump an appearance fee for his 2011 “roast.” > > Then there were payments totaling nearly $1.9 million from a man in New York City who sells sought-after tickets and one-of-a-kind experiences to wealthy clients. > > That man, Richard Ebers, bought goods and services — including tickets — from Trump or his businesses, according to two people familiar with the transactions, who requested anonymity because they were not authorized to speak about the payments. They said that Ebers was instructed to pay the Donald J. Trump Foundation instead. Ebers did not respond to requests for comment. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tax-trump-vs-clinton/767703/14 "2016-10-05T16:01:57Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Agree one hundred percent. I hope in the town hall debate, someone asks both candidates if they feel the tax system is “rigged.” Both would say yes, but Trump would follow up with saying that since he knows the ins and outs of the tax system loopholes he is the best one to fix them. Of course that sounds to me like Al Capone running for police commissioner of Chicago on the platform that he’s the best person to take care of the city’s bootlegging problem. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tax-trump-vs-clinton/767703/15 "2016-10-05T16:07:33Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Both would say yes, but Trump would follow up with saying that since he knows the ins and outs of the tax system loopholes he is the best one to fix them. > > Of course that sounds to me like Al Capone running for police commissioner of Chicago on the platform that he’s the best person to take care of the city’s bootlegging problem. Al Capone could had said the same about taxes. 🙂 I’m beginning to see many Trump supporters as people willing to agree that the fox should be the best capable guy that should guard the hen house. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tax-trump-vs-clinton/767703/16 "2016-10-05T16:09:49Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Al Capone could had said the same about taxes. 🙂 > > I’m beginning to see many Trump supporters as people willing to agree that the fox should be the best capable being to guard the hen house. I think those who support trump on his taxes think that somehow, with trump as president, they won’t have to pay taxes either. This is because they are very, very, very stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tax-trump-vs-clinton/767703/17 "2016-10-05T16:12:42Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Trump is getting a lot of heat for using a dodge to not pay tax. I wonder, how much tax have he and his businesses paid since he was born? How about Clinton? And just to address the main point here, the aggregate of how much any particular person paid really has no bearing on anything, one way or another. If the Clintons paid a kajillion times more in taxes than Trump did, that doesn’t make them better people; if Trump paid a kajillion times more than the Clintons, so what. Broadly speaking, there’s a lot of poor people who pay no Federal income tax, and most Americans (notwithstanding a growing fringe) generally agree that poor people should pay very little in income taxes. Moving up the income ladder, there’s quite a few people in higher income brackets who are subject to the alternative minimum tax, which was enacted for the precise reason that it would be unfair for well-off people to pay nothing in Federal taxes despite doing significantly better than your average American. Setting aside the issue of Trump personally, one has to question the fairness of tax laws that maintain that someone making, say, a $95,000 salary ought to pay a marginal rate of roughly 27% on a good chunk of that income for the singular purposes of maintaining a spirit of fairness in taxation; but that someone making $10 million to $50 million a year apparently isn’t subject to the same general spirit of fairness. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tax-trump-vs-clinton/767703/18 "2016-10-05T16:23:51Z")
To me, the most revealing thing about the tax returns is that it reveals how prepared Clinton is, and how utterly impulsive Trump is. In the brouhaha about foundations, most people have overlooked the fact that last year, the Clintons gave $1,000,000 to charity. It’s irrelevant as to whether this was motivated by philanthropy or cynicism, knowing that the world would be examining the tax return with a jeweler’s loupe. The optics of giving away 10% of your income to charity is pretty good. At the same time, Trump, as near as we can tell, made no charitable donations and refuses to release his tax returns. If you were planning on a Presidential run, wouldn’t you go to some lengths to make sure your finances could pass inspection, even if it meant a certain amount of painful paying of actual taxes? ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tax-trump-vs-clinton/767703/19 "2016-10-05T16:29:51Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > At the same time, Trump, as near as we can tell, made no charitable donations and refuses to release his tax returns. If you were planning on a Presidential run, wouldn’t you go to some lengths to make sure your finances could pass inspection, even if it meant a certain amount of painful paying of actual taxes? Like Romney apparently not actually claiming every deduction, so that he could get his percentage paid in taxes up (although it still looked bad). ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tax-trump-vs-clinton/767703/20 "2016-10-05T16:36:47Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > Like Romney apparently not actually claiming every deduction, so that he could get his percentage paid in taxes up (although it still looked bad). And there was nothing to stop him from filing an amended return after the election to bring it back to where it usually was. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tax-trump-vs-clinton/767703.md?page=2)