# Taxes: a scale of moral views **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 6, 2011, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxes-a-scale-of-moral-views/588078 "2011-07-06T19:13:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2011, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxes-a-scale-of-moral-views/588078/61 "2011-08-20T23:17:21Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > For that matter, why are you (and \*\*foolsguinea \*\*and **Fear Itself** ) wasting time arguing on an internet message board when you could be one of those people you despise so much, just buy investing in what is so easy. I am invested in the stock market. My current portfolio has over 20 different equity and bond funds in it. I expect it to make money over time. But I am not so arrogant as to call it work. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2011, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxes-a-scale-of-moral-views/588078/62 "2011-08-21T00:09:14Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I expect it to make money over time. Great, get back to us when it has made actual money, you know, enough that you don’t need to “work.” Like I said, if it was so easy, you wouldn’t buy equities or bonds, you’d buy options. Get 200% return instead of 2%. If it’s easy that is. Tell us right now, is the S&P going up this week or down? For about $200 you could either go long or short and double that within 3 weeks. For a person making $10 an hour doing real work, wouldn’t an extra $200 be nice? ETA I also don’t know how you manage 20 different equities and bonds. I spend a significant amount of time just managing 8. Are you listening to the entire conference call? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2011, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxes-a-scale-of-moral-views/588078/63 "2011-08-21T00:16:15Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > ETA I also don’t know how you manage 20 different equities and bonds. I spend a significant amount of time just managing 8. Are you listening to the entire conference call? I throw darts. Seriously, my broker manages it. You don’t really think the wealthy spend all day watching CNBC, buying and selling, do you? ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2011, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxes-a-scale-of-moral-views/588078/64 "2011-08-21T14:55:12Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I throw darts. > > Seriously, my broker manages it. You don’t really think the wealthy spend all day watching CNBC, buying and selling, do you? Wait, what? You willingly pay someone to do something that you claim is easy and not work? Do you know how much you’re losing to him? And he’s probably under performing against an index fund. If you actually believe a monkey with a gun, or darts, can do better, follow his strategy. Don’t waste your money on a managed fund, get some darts. You claimed it’s easy, so what’s stopping you from being super rich? Start with $200 in an September option on Monday morning. Keep it simple with SPY, either go long or go short. If it’s so easy you’ll double your money in a couple of weeks. Take that $400 and do it again. Note that $400 is about what a person _working_ for $10/hour makes in a week. See how easy it is to generate $400 a week consistently. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2011, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxes-a-scale-of-moral-views/588078/65 "2011-08-21T15:18:52Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > Wait, what? > > You willingly pay someone to do something that you claim is easy and not work? Do you know how much you’re losing to him? And he’s probably under performing against an index fund. I don’t butcher my own beef, either; that doesn’t mean I should be a vegetarian. The point is, the wealthy do not manage their own money either; they hire a money manager. The wealth they make off their investments does not qualify as work. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2011, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxes-a-scale-of-moral-views/588078/66 "2011-08-21T16:34:20Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I don’t butcher my own beef, either; that doesn’t mean I should be a vegetarian. You also didn’t say being a butcher was easy and not really work. > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > The point is, the wealthy do not manage their own money either; Do you have a cite for that or this more of a gut feeling? At the very least they need to pick a good money manager (or a talented monkey), can that be considered worked? You seem to be under the impression that maintaining wealth is easy, it’s not. Ask a retiree about making sure they have enough to sustain them from 65 to death. > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > they hire a money manager. The wealth they make off their investments does not qualify as work. Does the money manager do real work? What about people that make royalties, does that qualify as work to you? Any other sources of income you’d like to disqualify? ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2011, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxes-a-scale-of-moral-views/588078/67 "2011-08-21T17:06:06Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > There are many businesses which are appropriately blocked by government. No argument there, but it’s not what I was talking about. ---
**Author:** ![drbhoneydew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d78d45/32.png) [@drbhoneydew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drbhoneydew)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2011, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxes-a-scale-of-moral-views/588078/68 "2011-08-21T20:27:59Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > Then why do so many lottery winners go broke? Because they’re the kind of people who pay the lottery - it’s a tax on people with a poor knowledge of statistics. > [@emacknight](#): > > If it’s so easy why do people waste money paying for managed funds? Because some managed funds are quite good. The trouble is that it is nigh on impossible to tell which ones are good at any given time. > [@emacknight](#): > > If it’s so easy why do so many people “lose everything” when the market crashes? Do they? Some are idiots. The first rule of gambling is to only gamble what you can afford to lose. Now if it’s been because of some wheeze that the fund manager has come up with, then if they knew about it they’re still idiots. eg those who reinsured their Lloyds of London name status loads of times over to rake it in when the going was good and found out what unlimited liability meant come the asbestosis cases deserved all they got in my book. > [@emacknight](#): > > If it’s so easy why do people “making $10 an hour” dump money into lottery tickets (or cigarettes or alcohol) instead of buying stock options? Since it’s so easy. Minimum transaction values might have something to do with it, but probably don’t. I refer you back to the first rule of gambling, with an extension involving one of the main ways one can make money: information asymmetry - the seller knowing something’s a crock and the buyer doesn’t and the buyer knowing something is worth the farm and the seller doesn’t. Those on $10/hr are going to be serious prey to that sort of thing. At least with the lottery you all have the same chance of winning. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxes-a-scale-of-moral-views/588078.md?page=3)