# Taxes are Theft **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 20, 2010, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxes-are-theft/536749 "2010-04-20T15:12:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxes-are-theft/536749/21 "2010-04-20T15:56:07Z")
> [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](#): > > I’m struggling right now because I’m out of work and am sleeping in my car. Can I crash at your pad until I get back on feet financially? Sorry dude, that’s totally not cool right now. The super’s been on my case since I had that party last month. > [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](#): > > Why the **hell** do you live in that kind of society then? Jesus Christ, it’s not like Obama just invented taxes. Since the OP lives in Canada, I don’t think he blames Obama for his taxes. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxes-are-theft/536749/22 "2010-04-20T15:56:41Z")
I don’t believe the OP actually advocates that position. I think he’s just putting it out there for debate. n.b.: I am not implying that the OP is trolling. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxes-are-theft/536749/23 "2010-04-20T15:57:50Z")
No, taxes are not theft. They are the cover charge to this party we call civilization. If you don’t want to join the party, then go live in a cave somewhere. Because if you are going to join the party then that’s the price you pay. And if you are so worried about “those people” who are “getting something for nothing” consider - if we didn’t have a government in place to funnel resources to them, they would be marching right up to your front door to take it from you directly. Think of these social income redistribution programs as the invisible fence that keeps you secure in your bed. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxes-are-theft/536749/24 "2010-04-20T15:58:11Z")
> [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](#): > > I’m struggling right now because I’m out of work and am sleeping in my car. Can I crash at your pad until I get back on feet financially? No, you may not. You are however welcome to take advantage of any number of government services to help you that my taxes have helped pay for. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxes-are-theft/536749/25 "2010-04-20T16:00:28Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I don’t believe the OP actually advocates that position. I think he’s just putting it out there for debate. Why? We have plenty of resident nut-jobs who posit this sort of nonsense incessantly and get their asses handed to them on practically a daily basis. Some are even from Canada. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4bbf92/32.png) [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Hamsandwich)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxes-are-theft/536749/26 "2010-04-20T16:05:04Z")
> [@Hawkeyeop](#): > > No, you may not. You are however welcome to take advantage of any number of government services to help you that my taxes have helped pay for. A true humanitarian. And I so much wanted to fire up the grill this weekend. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxes-are-theft/536749/27 "2010-04-20T16:08:21Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > Why? We have plenty of resident nut-jobs who posit this sort of nonsense incessantly and get their asses handed to them on practically a daily basis. > > Some are even from Canada. I could be mistaken, but I don’t recall this poster being of the libertarian type in other debates. But maybe I’m confusing him/her with someone else. However, I take issue with your classification of the OP’s thesis as “nonsense”. If you want to debate it, debate it. Your earlier post wasn’t much of an argument. Libertarians living in the US (for example) today are forced to pay taxes, and so there is nothing hypocritical about accepted services in exchange. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxes-are-theft/536749/28 "2010-04-20T16:09:55Z")
There are places you can live where no one will charge you taxes. Somalia is one. Antarctica is another. So, by all means, move there. But if, perhaps, you don’t want to do that – because you’d rather live in a place with police protection, and firefighters, and hospitals that treat you when you get sick (yes, they’re publicly-subsidized, even if you’re paying out of pocket), and computers (evolved with public funding) that can access the Internet (ditto), and the ability to purchase food reliably (also government-subsidized), and electric power (you guessed it), and schools for your kids (even the private ones are publicly funded), and an army to protect you from invasion, and blah blah blah, _then shut your baby mouth_. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxes-are-theft/536749/29 "2010-04-20T16:10:04Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Since the OP lives in Canada, I don’t think he blames Obama for his taxes. Well, whatever. He certainly acts like taxation just sneaked up on him yesterday and took all his money away. Oh wait, what’s the date you have to file your tax reports in Canada? End of this month perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxes-are-theft/536749/30 "2010-04-20T16:12:15Z")
> [@Hawkeyeop](#): > > No, you may not. You are however welcome to take advantage of any number of government services to help you that my taxes have helped pay for. This, and definitely no sarcasm intended. I have no problems with the taxes I pay because I _want_ to “pay it forward”, as it were. When I grew up my family relied on commodities provided by the government, when I joined the U.S.A.F. I received much more in room, board and training than I earned in reality, and when my child needed help with his disabilities the government helped out with the programs I couldn’t begin to afford on my own. Many programs need a _very_ wide base to function properly, so this idea of paying only for programs that one wishes to participate in would kill most of them and leave this country in a much sorrier state than it is in right now. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxes-are-theft/536749/31 "2010-04-20T16:12:21Z")
Retain **Rand Rover**. That’s the only answer I can give to the OP’s plaint tht is both honest and remains within forum rules. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxes-are-theft/536749/32 "2010-04-20T16:14:26Z")
Libertarianism is not a serious philosophy and does not need to be ‘debated’. It’s just a fig leaf for juvenile sociopaths to hide behind. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4bbf92/32.png) [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Hamsandwich)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxes-are-theft/536749/33 "2010-04-20T16:17:38Z")
> [@](#): > > No, you may not. You are however welcome to take advantage of any number of government services to help you that my taxes have helped pay for. Listen, I’m busting chops here, but when I see a post like your response, I envision Ebenezer: “Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?” It’s a RARE thing to see someone truly give their literal shirt off their back to someone in desperate need, at least in the area I live in. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxes-are-theft/536749/34 "2010-04-20T16:17:51Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > Libertarianism is not a serious philosophy and does not need to be ‘debated’. It’s just a fig leaf for juvenile sociopaths to hide behind. I’m convinced. Good job! ---
**Author:** ![Gustav](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/919ad9/32.png) [@Gustav](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gustav)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxes-are-theft/536749/35 "2010-04-20T16:18:11Z")
Oooh they’ll send you to jail, boo hoo. Why should someone else protect _you_ from being robbed? The world isn’t meant to be kind and gentle. If you weren’t such a weak individual you’d find a solution. ---
**Author:** ![Xan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/ac8455/32.png) [@Xan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xan)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxes-are-theft/536749/36 "2010-04-20T16:20:24Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I think “taxes are theft” is a perfectly valid assumption to make if you’re starting to develop a political philosophy. Or, it is a perfectly valid conclusion if one assumes an absolutes sense of property rights, as many Libertarians do. However, that is not to say that there aren’t other, equally valid assumptions that can be made about other forms of political philosophy in which taxes are not theft. > > So, to answer the OP: yes or no, depending on what assumptions you start with. My part of my philosophy is that taxes are theft. I’m not saying there shouldn’t be any taxes. I’m saying that the government should not spend tax dollars wastefully. If people had a choice they would not pay. Most people work for this money and as little of it should be taken as absolutely necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxes-are-theft/536749/37 "2010-04-20T16:21:31Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I could be mistaken, but I don’t recall this poster being of the libertarian type in other debates. But maybe I’m confusing him/her with someone else. > > However, I take issue with your classification of the OP’s thesis as “nonsense”. If you want to debate it, debate it. Your earlier post wasn’t much of an argument. Libertarians living in the US (for example) today are forced to pay taxes, and so there is nothing hypocritical about accepted services in exchange. The sentiments expressed by the OP are not libertarian, they’re anarchistic. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxes-are-theft/536749/38 "2010-04-20T16:21:49Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > Libertarianism is not a serious philosophy and does not need to be ‘debated’. It’s just a fig leaf for juvenile sociopaths to hide behind. That’s _ad hominem_, kids. Look it up. It will be on the test. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxes-are-theft/536749/39 "2010-04-20T16:21:54Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > This, and definitely no sarcasm intended. I have no problems with the taxes I pay because I _want_ to “pay it forward”, as it were. When I grew up my family relied on commodities provided by the government, when I joined the U.S.A.F. I received much more in room, board and training than I earned in reality, and when my child needed help with his disabilities the government helped out with the programs I couldn’t begin to afford on my own. Many programs need a _very_ wide base to function properly, so this idea of paying only for programs that one wishes to participate in would kill most of them and leave this country in a much sorrier state than it is in right now. Every time April 15th rolls around I say to my self, “well its time to pay the freedom and prosperity bill.” Believe me, I feel I’m getting more for my money with the government than I do for cable TV every month. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxes-are-theft/536749/40 "2010-04-20T16:23:30Z")
> [@Xan](#): > > My part of my philosophy is that taxes are theft. I’m not saying there shouldn’t be any taxes. I’m saying that the government should not spend tax dollars wastefully. If people had a choice they would not pay. Most people work for this money and as little of it should be taken as absolutely necessary. Newsflash: Every cent of taxes that Americans pay is by choice. It’s called democracy. We ARE the government. We decide for ourselves what we are willing to pay. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxes-are-theft/536749.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxes-are-theft/536749.md?page=3)