# Taxing the "rich" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 24, 2011, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxing-the-rich/590209 "2011-07-24T21:14:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxing-the-rich/590209/101 "2011-07-25T14:11:38Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Amazing. > > I’m with even sven. The rich have the best PR and can go around telling people how poor they are. $250K??? You have no idea how the other 98% of the country lives. The poor can’t afford that kind of PR. Almost 30% of the Forbes 400 knows how the other 98% of America lives. They were once poor themselves, the other 70% read about it in school. ---
**Author:** ![Smurfie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@Smurfie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smurfie)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxing-the-rich/590209/102 "2011-07-25T14:15:38Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > The message I want to push going forward, every time I hear this, is; > > SHOW ME THE JOBS. > > Every motherfucking time they cry about how we can’t raise taxes on companies or rich people and they cry about how they are the job creators, we need to start asking where the jobs are that our previous tax cuts allegedly paid for. Or tie tax cuts/tax raising based on quality jobs created and maintained. i.e. if you actually increase the amount of jobs that you pay for, you get a tax decrease. If you don’t, you don’t. If you are responsible for jobs then cut the number of them you get a tax increase. If you are responsible for no jobs directly, taxed at 90%. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxing-the-rich/590209/103 "2011-07-25T14:15:41Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Trouble is, we’ve reached the point now where 50% of all American households have been deemed poor enough not to pay any income tax. There are people in this country living in two-story houses, driving multiple cars, watching big-screen TV’s and wearing nice clothes every day who have been deemed by the government to be too poor to pay income tax, and it certainly wouldn’t hurt them to be paying their fair share. … Our unabashed admiration for your acute intelligence notwithstanding, we might like some sort of substantiation for what appears to be a bald assertion pulled right out of your ass. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxing-the-rich/590209/104 "2011-07-25T14:20:45Z")
> [@Darth\_Panda](#): > > I think they equate rich with, oh my god he has a mansion, a Porsche, and a summer home, always flies first class, eats caviar, and never has to work. > > And people who are in the middle class in the US (I’m just talking about regular people here, not saying anyone making 250 is in the middle class, they most certainly are not) would be rich in other countries, but that doesn’t mean we should call them rich or tax them like they are, because the cost of living is much different. At 250K you would be on the verge of being rich in many places in this country as well, even by your above criteria. It’s partially a class thing in that many 250K earners _could_ afford several items on your above list, (although not all,) but choose not to. Heck, Sam Walton drove an old pickup and Warren Buffett still lives in a non-mansion in Omaha (AFAIK) and no one can say they weren’t/aren’t rich. So I think the average American is intelligent enough to understand that rich does not mean “lives like my thoughts on what an upper-class person should live like”, but rather “has enough money to live like an upper-class person”, even though making 250K will not be enough to afford all of the trappings, but merely some. Adding before posting: heck, I could even afford several of the above on the list and I don’t even break $100K. I think that if I stopped saving for retirement I think I could drive a Porsche, own a summer home, and always fly first class (I only fly once or twice a year anyway.) ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxing-the-rich/590209/105 "2011-07-25T14:24:50Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Trouble is, we’ve reached the point now where 50% of all American households have been deemed poor enough not to pay any income tax. This has to be a _huge_ exaggeration. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxing-the-rich/590209/106 "2011-07-25T14:30:41Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Trouble is, we’ve reached the point now where 50% of all American households have been deemed poor enough not to pay any income tax. > > This has to be a _huge_ exaggeration. “A report filed by the congressional Joint Committee on Taxation on April 29 determined that 51 percent of American households owed no federal income tax in 2009, the most recent year for which statistics are available. In fact, the study found that 30 percent of the nation’s taxing units – individuals, families and various other categories – actually made money off the income tax system.” [http://www.courierpress.com/news/2011/jul/23/no-headline---ev\_taxes/](http://www.courierpress.com/news/2011/jul/23/no-headline---ev_taxes/) ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxing-the-rich/590209/107 "2011-07-25T14:34:29Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > This has to be a _huge_ exaggeration. Median household income is at least 30K. When I had an income of around 17K in the late 90s, I certainly paid income tax (and did not receive anything back by formal government programs such as any form of welfare or EITC). I doubt taxes have fallen so much since then that a greater inflation-adjusted income will result in paying no tax at all, since I paid even at that time a couple percentages of my income in income tax, even if we ignore social security and medicare taxes, which we shouldn’t in my case, because I’m not going to get any of that back so it should certainly count as a regular income tax. So I was paying an effective %10 plus of my income in taxes, even more if you take into account my employers share of SS. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxing-the-rich/590209/108 "2011-07-25T14:36:19Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Amazing. > > I’m with even sven. The rich have the best PR and can go around telling people how poor they are. $250K??? You have no idea how the other 98% of the country lives. A while back during the protests in Wisconsin when the right wing talkers were bitching about how much teachers made, the Daily Show ran this bit, which showcases the Fox News Douchebags TM talking about how hard those making over $250,000 will have it if the Bush tax cuts were to expire. Relevant Daily Show clip: [http://robinoula.com/modern-education/fox-news-teachers-are-greedy-and-250000-is-practically-poverty/](http://robinoula.com/modern-education/fox-news-teachers-are-greedy-and-250000-is-practically-poverty/) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxing-the-rich/590209/109 "2011-07-25T14:37:17Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Median household income is at least 30K. Wiki has it at $44,389, with 25%+ at 75K or more and 15%+ at 100k or more. > **[Household income in the United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States)** > > Household income is an economic standard that can be applied to one household, or aggregated across a large group such as a county, city, or the whole country. It is commonly used by the United States government and private institutions to describe a household's economic status or to track economic trends in the US. > A key measure of household income is the median income, at which half of households have income above that level and half below. The U.S. Census Bureau reports two median househo... ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxing-the-rich/590209/110 "2011-07-25T14:37:45Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > “A report filed by the congressional Joint Committee on Taxation on April 29 determined that 51 percent of American households owed no federal income tax in 2009, the most recent year for which statistics are available. In fact, the study found that 30 percent of the nation’s taxing units – individuals, families and various other categories – actually made money off the income tax system.” > > [http://www.courierpress.com/news/2011/jul/23/no-headline---ev\_taxes/](http://www.courierpress.com/news/2011/jul/23/no-headline---ev_taxes/) How is that even possible? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxing-the-rich/590209/111 "2011-07-25T14:40:14Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Our unabashed admiration for your acute intelligence notwithstanding, we might like some sort of substantiation for what appears to be a bald assertion pulled right out of your ass. Mightily surprised that one of your own alleged intelligence has such a short memory. It’s been talked about any number of times on this very board, and in threads I’m sure you’ve seen. Still, I went to the trouble to find a proper leftie cite so you can’t pretend it’s wrong because it’s reported by Fox or linked by Drudge. To wit: [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36226444/ns/business-personal\_finance/t/half-us-pays-no-federal-income-tax/](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36226444/ns/business-personal_finance/t/half-us-pays-no-federal-income-tax/) And on preview I see that **The Other Waldo Pepper** has it covered as well. Now, given that you apparently find something wrong with that scenario otherwise you wouldn’t have challenged me on it, does this information have the slightest impact at all upon your opinion of the way people are being taxed (or not) in this country? I’ll wager “no”, myself. But who knows, maybe you’ll surprise me. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxing-the-rich/590209/112 "2011-07-25T14:42:21Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > How is that even possible? Earned income tax credit. However, in many of their cases, if they are young, they are actually paying a net positive amount of money in effective income taxes because even though they get back some money from the income tax per se, they pay into the Social Security and Medicare fund and will receive nothing back when the system breaks. This would be true for my mom if she were young. She pays little or less than nothing in income taxes (but is close to even, at an income FAR less than the median, and with one dependent.) But when you take into account the other payroll taxes, she pays into the system rather than takes out. But she is close enough to retirement that she will actually collect. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxing-the-rich/590209/113 "2011-07-25T15:07:32Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Earned income tax credit. However, in many of their cases, if they are young, they are actually paying a net positive amount of money in effective income taxes because even though they get back some money from the income tax per se, they pay into the Social Security and Medicare fund and will receive nothing back when the system breaks. > > This would be true for my mom if she were young. She pays little or less than nothing in income taxes (but is close to even, at an income FAR less than the median, and with one dependent.) But when you take into account the other payroll taxes, she pays into the system rather than takes out. But she is close enough to retirement that she will actually collect. Its crazy but I guess its true. I qualify for 8 (EIGHT!) exemptions from federal tax…one for myself, two for two dependents, one for having over $1800 in day care expenses, and then FOUR more exemptions for the two dependents again for earning under $61k a year within the child tax credit. That’s a lot of exemptions. I guess there’s more people like me than I thought, but I don’t get a tax refund at the end of the year, either. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxing-the-rich/590209/114 "2011-07-25T15:15:03Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Mightily surprised that one of your own alleged intelligence has such a short memory. It’s been talked about any number of times on this very board, and in threads I’m sure you’ve seen. Still, I went to the trouble to find a proper leftie cite so you can’t pretend it’s wrong because it’s reported by Fox or linked by Drudge. To wit: > > [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36226444/ns/business-personal\_finance/t/half-us-pays-no-federal-income-tax/](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36226444/ns/business-personal_finance/t/half-us-pays-no-federal-income-tax/) > > And on preview I see that **The Other Waldo Pepper** has it covered as well. > > Now, given that you apparently find something wrong with that scenario otherwise you wouldn’t have challenged me on it, does this information have the slightest impact at all upon your opinion of the way people are being taxed (or not) in this country? > > I’ll wager “no”, myself. But who knows, maybe you’ll surprise me. Didn’t ask if the “50% pay no Federal Income Tax” was accurate. Asked you to prove the scenario of lavish living you offered. Should I type slower? Would that help? ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxing-the-rich/590209/115 "2011-07-25T15:24:51Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > I don’t do the taxes so I don’t know how it works, tho I highly doubt we are getting any credits of any kind - do we still get the one for having a mortgage? Other than that, all we would get would be for simply existing. All I do know is I am paying (somewhat higher) bills with the same ease I did when I was working. If we were missing $10,000 - about $833 a month - I’d think I’d notice it… > > My husband may be a spendthrift but he’s not _that_ bad! 😃 I’m glad that you feel free to have such strong opinions about something that you know nothing about. Is that a giggle at the end of your post? The fact is you are simply wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxing-the-rich/590209/116 "2011-07-25T15:29:48Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Should I type slower? Would that help? Do you have to ask? ---
**Author:** ![quixotic78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/3ab097/32.png) [@quixotic78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quixotic78)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxing-the-rich/590209/117 "2011-07-25T15:43:18Z")
> [@quixotic78](#): > > A little off-topic, but what the hell: **Starving Artist** , I’d be willing to bet that you’re one of those folks who thinks that people shouldn’t get food stamps or welfare if they have something trivial like a color TV. Yeah? > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I wouldn’t go into the mind-reading business if I were you. Stereotypes don’t form in a vacuum, but they are no guarantee. Really? Because I kinda feel like Nostra-fucking-damus right now. To wit: > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > There are people in this country living in two-story houses, driving multiple cars, watching big-screen TV’s and wearing nice clothes every day who have been deemed by the government to be too poor to pay income tax, and it certainly wouldn’t hurt them to be paying their fair share. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxing-the-rich/590209/118 "2011-07-25T16:03:02Z")
> [@quixotic78](#): > > Really? Because I kinda feel like Nostra-fucking-damus right now. To wit: In the same thread even! Even for batshit crazy, that’s a new record. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxing-the-rich/590209/119 "2011-07-25T16:49:33Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > In the same thread even! Even for batshit crazy, that’s a new record. I think there’s an important distinction to maintain between crazy and stupid. Oh, don’t get me wrong - a good argument can be made for **Starving for Attention** being both. It’s just that in this case, I think it’s more of the latter than the former. Here, he was simply hoist on his own retard. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxing-the-rich/590209/120 "2011-07-25T17:00:20Z")
Point. Now, let’s see how long it takes for **SA** to come in and snidely point out that he was talking about people with TVs who don’t pay income tax and _not_ who are on food stamps like **quixotic** suggested, and therefore don’t we feel stupid, ha ha. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxing-the-rich/590209.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxing-the-rich/590209.md?page=7)