# Taxonomic names to be revised, because racism **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 19, 2024, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxonomic-names-to-be-revised-because-racism/1004455 "2024-07-19T09:57:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2024, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxonomic-names-to-be-revised-because-racism/1004455/1 "2024-07-19T09:57:51Z")
There’s a plan to revise the scientific names of a whole load of different organisms, where they contain racist slurs. [https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-024-02365-x](https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-024-02365-x) My only thoughts on this are really, why has this been so long coming. Taxonomic names get revised all the time (and not solely for taxonomic reasons). It’s a little bit shameful this is only just happening now. Changes are also being considered where things have been named after a person, and that person was involved in the slave trade. I can see this one might meet with more objection because judging _anyone_ from the past by modern standards is likely to result in disappointment, and the biggest problem with that is that (IMO) it tends to encourage high-horsery; deflecting our attention from our own faults, which we could change, by focusing on judging people who are dead and cannot change. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2024, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxonomic-names-to-be-revised-because-racism/1004455/2 "2024-07-19T10:08:41Z")
It seems like one of the main threads of concern about this is that it’s _change, and that might be confusing_, but IMO that’s an imaginary BS complaint. Taxonomic names change all the time when things get reclassified (for example the herb rosemary used to have it’s own genus _Rosmarinus_, but recently it got lumped into the genus _Salvia_ - presumably for perfectly reasonable reasons, and botanists just have to deal with it). If you don’t want change, then simply _never make mistakes_. If you can’t avoid mistakes, deal with change. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2024, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxonomic-names-to-be-revised-because-racism/1004455/3 "2024-07-19T10:17:37Z")
Misclick ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2024, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxonomic-names-to-be-revised-because-racism/1004455/4 "2024-07-19T11:30:48Z")
There are some odd names out there. The red-headed parrot, or Pionus parrot has red feathers around its cloaca. It was therefore named _Pionus menstruus._ > **[Pionus](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pionus)** > > 7-10, see text > Pionus is a genus of medium-sized parrots native to Mexico, and Central and South America. Characteristic of the genus are the chunky body, bare eye ring (which can vary in color), and short square tail. They are superficially similar to Amazon parrots, but smaller, and in flight their wing-strokes are far deeper. Coloration is generally subdued yet complex compared to member species of the genus Amazona; under bright lighting, their feathers shimmer with iridescent brilliance. ... ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2024, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxonomic-names-to-be-revised-because-racism/1004455/5 "2024-07-19T13:07:15Z")
From the subheadline of the link in the OP: > the first time that any species names have been adjusted because of the offence they cause. I don’t know whether that’s true for plants. It certainly isn’t true for all species. Go look up the recently-renamed spongy moth, for instance. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2024, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxonomic-names-to-be-revised-because-racism/1004455/6 "2024-07-19T13:16:21Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > It certainly isn’t true for all species. Go look up the recently-renamed spongy moth, for instance. (I get the feeling that years from now future instances of this will still be getting reported as something “new and unusual”.) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2024, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxonomic-names-to-be-revised-because-racism/1004455/7 "2024-07-19T13:27:12Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > spongy moth Which was and still is Lymantria dispar. The species name didn’t change, just the common name (which used to be “gypsy moth”). ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2024, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxonomic-names-to-be-revised-because-racism/1004455/8 "2024-07-19T14:05:03Z")
I wondered about that too. I know there’s been some discussion before here. > [@What to do about species with offensive names?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-species-with-offensive-names/990650): > > So TIL about this absolute shit show: It turns out that: A: In the 1930s an Austrian entomologist named a beetle after Adolf Hitler B: Said beetle is being hunted to extinction by Neo-nazis because of its name. So ignoring the absolute WTAF that there are enough neo-nazis around who are stupid enough to hunt an arbitrary beetle because its named for hitler (I mean its not actually a nazi beetle dumb-asses, just some dumb nazi in the 1930s decided to call it that), for it to be threat to the… ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2024, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxonomic-names-to-be-revised-because-racism/1004455/9 "2024-07-19T14:10:38Z")
All scientific naming should be reviewed. Old names can be preserved for historical purposes, no need for science to care what colloquial names are used for species, but every accepted name should be considered based on its relevant descriptive nature. Nothing wrong with using names of discoverers if accurately applied. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2024, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxonomic-names-to-be-revised-because-racism/1004455/10 "2024-07-19T14:20:59Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Which was and still is Lymantria dispar. The species name didn’t change, just the common name (which used to be “gypsy moth”). Ah. That’s a point. I know there have been other name changes and think at least one was taxonomic but I might be wrong; no time to hunt up references now. > [@TriPolar](#): > > no need for science to care what colloquial names are used for species Cooperative Extension and other such places use colloquial names as well as taxonomic when providing advice to farmers, home gardeners, etc. If they change which colloquial name they’re using, they need to publicize it, or most people aren’t going to know what they’re talking about. And they need to settle on a consistent colloquial name to use, or again nobody’s going to know what they’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2024, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxonomic-names-to-be-revised-because-racism/1004455/11 "2024-07-19T14:23:53Z")
…just as long as we don’t have to go through the whole apatosaurus thing again… ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2024, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxonomic-names-to-be-revised-because-racism/1004455/12 "2024-07-19T14:31:11Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Cooperative Extension and other such places use colloquial names as well as taxonomic when providing advice to farmers, home gardeners, etc. If they change which colloquial name they’re using, they need to publicize it, or most people aren’t going to know what they’re talking about. And they need to settle on a consistent colloquial name to use, or again nobody’s going to know what they’re talking about. Nothing wrong with colloquial names. We don’t have to use only scientific names, but everybody benefits from a standard name to reference. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2024, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxonomic-names-to-be-revised-because-racism/1004455/13 "2024-07-19T14:44:33Z")
I’m assuming [Enneapogon nigricans](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enneapogon_nigricans) is on the list. The scientific name is questionable enough; one of the colloquial names is _really_ bad. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2024, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxonomic-names-to-be-revised-because-racism/1004455/14 "2024-07-20T13:26:23Z")
Why would it be? It’s from the legitimate, and descriptive Latin for black-coloured. Whereas _Xxxx caffra_ are named that because of an [outdated racist placename reference.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaffraria). The two are not analogous. I see the intent is to rename _caffra_ species to _affra_ or similar, I think something _capensis_ or _keiana_ would be better, more specific to the region, overall. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2024, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxonomic-names-to-be-revised-because-racism/1004455/15 "2024-07-20T13:38:40Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Why would it be? It’s from the legitimate, and descriptive Latin for black-coloured. It’s one of the common names that needs to be discontinued. But there isn’t any particular system or organisation in charge of common names for stuff. That’s just down to people deciding to stop being assholes and stop using the common name that contains a slur. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2024, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxonomic-names-to-be-revised-because-racism/1004455/16 "2024-07-20T14:01:24Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Why would it be? It’s from the legitimate, and descriptive Latin for black-coloured. Except that there seems to be nothing black-colored about the plant. All I know about it is what I read in the Wikipedia article, and it doesn’t explain where the name comes from, but I’m guessing the scientific name is based on the offensive common name. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2024, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxonomic-names-to-be-revised-because-racism/1004455/17 "2024-07-20T15:09:20Z")
Nigr_icans_ means ‘becoming black’ in latin, I think. The seeds of the plant darken to very dark greyish-black as they ripen. The scientific and some of the common names reflect this property of the plant, including the offensive common name. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2024, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxonomic-names-to-be-revised-because-racism/1004455/18 "2024-07-20T15:12:28Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Except that there seems to be nothing black-colored about the plant. The seedheads can be quite dark. > [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I’m guessing the scientific name is based on the offensive common name Not sure if it was a common offensive name in Robert Brown’s dialect. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2024, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxonomic-names-to-be-revised-because-racism/1004455/19 "2024-07-20T15:21:09Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > The seeds of the plant darken to very dark greyish-black as they ripen. > [@MrDibble](#): > > The seedheads can be quite dark. Okay, thanks. As I said, I only knew what was in that (very brief) Wikipedia article, and it doesn’t mention that. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2024, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxonomic-names-to-be-revised-because-racism/1004455/20 "2024-07-20T15:28:48Z")
The common (not scientific) names of eponymous birds (e.g., Swainson’s thrush) are _all_ going to be changed in US nomenclature rather than sorting through them for problems. [FAQ: Changes to Eponymous Bird Names | All About Birds All About Birds](https://www.allaboutbirds.org/news/aos-name-changes-faq/#) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxonomic-names-to-be-revised-because-racism/1004455.md?page=2)