# Taxonomic names to be revised, because racism **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 19, 2024, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxonomic-names-to-be-revised-because-racism/1004455 "2024-07-19T09:57:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2024, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxonomic-names-to-be-revised-because-racism/1004455/21 "2024-07-20T16:38:25Z")
Sigh… This is so tiring. There’s a specific roadside wild flower around here. Very famous. Makes s beautiful showing early fall. Very offensive sounding common name. No one cares. That’s just what it is. The science world can change the official name all they want. The people will call it what they will. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2024, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxonomic-names-to-be-revised-because-racism/1004455/22 "2024-07-20T16:41:24Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > Very offensive sounding common name. No one cares. No one’s told you that they care. But I’ll bet someone does. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2024, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxonomic-names-to-be-revised-because-racism/1004455/23 "2024-07-20T16:42:47Z")
How can I know, without just assuming? (It’s Rudbeckia hirta) Had to look that up. No one around here knows this name. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2024, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxonomic-names-to-be-revised-because-racism/1004455/24 "2024-07-20T16:44:14Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > The science world can change the official name all they want. The people will call it what they will. It won’t be a magic wand sort of change. But the official name will change, new books will reflect the new names, people will learn it by the new names and, someday, someone who learned it by the modern texts will hear someone calling it a [Racist Plant] and side-eye the guy for being stupid and out of touch. All that said, I’ve been in landscaping for 25 (?) years and Rudbeckia is a VERY common plant and I’ve never heard anyone imply that the name is racist or offensive. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2024, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxonomic-names-to-be-revised-because-racism/1004455/25 "2024-07-20T16:45:34Z")
Okay. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2024, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxonomic-names-to-be-revised-because-racism/1004455/26 "2024-07-20T16:56:43Z")
Is “black-eyed Susan” what you call it? There’s more than one meaning of “black eye”, and the flower doesn’t at all resemble a bruise. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2024, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxonomic-names-to-be-revised-because-racism/1004455/27 "2024-07-20T17:09:23Z")
No it’s much more offensive nigger naval or nigger daisy . We’ve had out and out daffodil wars around here. There’s two festivals The Daffodil festival and the Jonquil festival. Everyone knows they are same but the wars go on. So if any one was mad about this Rudbeckia I’m sure it we’d hear about it. (I’m sorta triggered about the name _Rudbeckia_) ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2024, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxonomic-names-to-be-revised-because-racism/1004455/28 "2024-07-20T17:25:22Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > It won’t be a magic wand sort of change. But the official name will change, new books will reflect the new names, people will learn it by the new names and, someday, someone who learned it by the modern texts will hear someone calling it a [Racist Plant] and side-eye the guy for being stupid and out of touch. If Rudbeck had been an evil bastard, there would be some reason to consider revising the name. “Common names” are pretty random, though, not immutable, especially with a flower like this for which there are like a dozen names. Whoever is coming up with highly offensive names for it did not learn them from a textbook, I assume. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2024, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxonomic-names-to-be-revised-because-racism/1004455/29 "2024-07-20T17:34:42Z")
Common names can and do change. For a while it’s all “Daaaad. You can’t call it that!”, then dad is gone, and it’s no longer called that. Assholes don’t live forever. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2024, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxonomic-names-to-be-revised-because-racism/1004455/30 "2024-07-20T17:37:57Z")
Nobody can change how people locally refer to plants or animals. That’s not the “common name” but a folk or “popular” name. I would think the now-offensive term came into use when it was more a synonym for “black.” > Rudbeckia hirta, commonly called black-eyed Susan, is a North American flowering plant > (Wikipedia) ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2024, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxonomic-names-to-be-revised-because-racism/1004455/31 "2024-07-20T17:44:46Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > But there isn’t any particular system or organisation in charge of common names for stuff. Generally, but birds are a bit of an exception. Bodies do exist for those in English and as birders lean towards compulsive list-keeping (not me - I’ve got no patience for self-administration 😀), they tend to be effective gatekeepers. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2024, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxonomic-names-to-be-revised-because-racism/1004455/32 "2024-07-20T17:45:30Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > No it’s much more offensive Oh, well that’s just trashy. Thankfully, that doesn’t seem to have spread as a common name for the plant (Black-Eyed Susan) > [@DPRK](#): > > Whoever is coming up with highly offensive names for it did not learn them from a textbook, I assume. Yeah, I assumed we were talking about potentially offensive common names, not garbage racist folk names. You’re correct that no one is learning those from a book, be it a botanical text or more casual “Guide To Garden Flowers”. That’s not a “we need to rename this plant” issue because it’s not actually the name of the plant. It’s a “We’re just going to be casually racist and you can’t stop us” issue which is something else entirely. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2024, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxonomic-names-to-be-revised-because-racism/1004455/33 "2024-07-20T17:51:53Z")
Oh god, I vaguely assumed you were talking about Indian paintbrish or Indian blanket, common roadside flowers in Texas. I never heard that one. Wow. And I lived in Arkansas for several years in the 80s. I was a child. If people were avoiding saying it in front of children, its not “just what its called”. I do think removing names of “people associated with slavery” is problematic, because then you have this weird “worse than slavery?” sort of question. This is especially true if you remove anyone who fought for the Confederacy, which seems to be a thing. Is a former German infantryman worse than a former Confederate soldier? And those are the easy ones, where we all agree who the bad guy was. There are suddenly political implications to keeping any name: ignoring it is as much of a stance as changing it, once you change a bunch. I just feel like its rough on taxonomists. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2024, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxonomic-names-to-be-revised-because-racism/1004455/34 "2024-07-20T18:01:00Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > I do think removing names of “people associated with slavery” is problematic, because then you have this weird “worse than slavery?” sort of question. This is especially true if you remove anyone who fought for the Confederacy, which seems to be a thing. Is a former German infantryman worse than a former Confederate soldier? Well, they are still working on Anophthalmus hitleri. The thing is, it was named by the author of the description who thought Hitler was cool, it’s not like they took a vote. (I.e., the default stance is that you get to name it.) ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2024, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxonomic-names-to-be-revised-because-racism/1004455/35 "2024-07-20T18:13:58Z")
Then there’s that lovely _Peter pepper_ (Capsicum??) Looks just like you think it would look. There are many many varieties of peppers. (Capsicum) People call them common names to distinguish them from other peppers. I doubt the average person goes around calling things scientific names some weird book author or some Scientists determined they were. So IMHO, no one cares. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2024, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxonomic-names-to-be-revised-because-racism/1004455/36 "2024-07-20T18:35:06Z")
You seem to care quite a bit about it ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2024, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxonomic-names-to-be-revised-because-racism/1004455/37 "2024-07-20T18:38:22Z")
Okay. If you say so. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2024, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxonomic-names-to-be-revised-because-racism/1004455/38 "2024-07-20T18:43:18Z")
You have your various Clitoria ternatea and Phallus impudicus and so on, but if the Victorians did not think much about it, certainly no one finds it offensive now. I don’t think anybody is too worked up about Capcisa, either 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2024, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxonomic-names-to-be-revised-because-racism/1004455/39 "2024-07-20T18:54:44Z")
I don’t think anyone is objecting to names that happen to be anatomical or sound a bit rude. It’s not the same class of offence as names containing a racist slur. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2024, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxonomic-names-to-be-revised-because-racism/1004455/40 "2024-07-20T18:56:49Z")
Yeah, there are organisations that make their voices heard. The British Mycological Society has weighed in on common names at least one time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxonomic-names-to-be-revised-because-racism/1004455.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxonomic-names-to-be-revised-because-racism/1004455.md?page=3)