# Taxpayer money should not be used on stadiums **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 11, 2015, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxpayer-money-should-not-be-used-on-stadiums/737296 "2015-11-11T16:24:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2015, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxpayer-money-should-not-be-used-on-stadiums/737296/81 "2015-11-13T19:20:48Z")
> [@BeeGee](#): > > Arlington, TX voted to spend $135 mil in the 90’s to build a new stadium for the Texas Rangers. The increase in sales tax allowed the debt to be paid off in 10 years instead of 20. So when the Cowboys were looking for a new home, the citizens of Arlington voted to build them a new stadium in Arlington. It’s paying off again. > > [http://www.dallasnews.com/news/cowboys-stadium/headlines/20121121-record-sales-tax-revenue-will-allow-arlington-to-pay-off-cowboys-stadium-debt-years-early.ece](http://www.dallasnews.com/news/cowboys-stadium/headlines/20121121-record-sales-tax-revenue-will-allow-arlington-to-pay-off-cowboys-stadium-debt-years-early.ece) > > [http://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/community/arlington/article10754984.html](http://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/community/arlington/article10754984.html) “They’re paying it off…again” is NOT the same as “it’s paying off”. ---
**Author:** ![BeeGee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5a626/32.png) [@BeeGee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeeGee)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2015, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxpayer-money-should-not-be-used-on-stadiums/737296/82 "2015-11-13T20:16:01Z")
Well, they’re paying off the bonds based on revenue from sales tax which seems to indicate that they’re making some money. They liked what happened with the Rangers’ stadium enough to do it all over again for the Cowboys. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2015, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxpayer-money-should-not-be-used-on-stadiums/737296/83 "2015-11-13T20:19:58Z")
> [@BeeGee](#): > > Arlington, TX voted to spend $135 mil in the 90’s to build a new stadium for the Texas Rangers. The increase in sales tax allowed the debt to be paid off in 10 years instead of 20. So when the Cowboys were looking for a new home, the citizens of Arlington voted to build them a new stadium in Arlington. It’s paying off again. > > [http://www.dallasnews.com/news/cowboys-stadium/headlines/20121121-record-sales-tax-revenue-will-allow-arlington-to-pay-off-cowboys-stadium-debt-years-early.ece](http://www.dallasnews.com/news/cowboys-stadium/headlines/20121121-record-sales-tax-revenue-will-allow-arlington-to-pay-off-cowboys-stadium-debt-years-early.ece) > > [http://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/community/arlington/article10754984.html](http://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/community/arlington/article10754984.html) Nothing in that article said that the stadium had anything to do with the increase in sales tax revenue. If the stadium was not there perhaps the money could have been used for other services or the tax decreased. So these articles are irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2015, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxpayer-money-should-not-be-used-on-stadiums/737296/84 "2015-11-13T20:20:40Z")
> [@BeeGee](#): > > Well, they’re paying off the bonds based on revenue from sales tax which seems to indicate that they’re making some money. They liked what happened with the Rangers’ stadium enough to do it all over again for the Cowboys. “Seems”. “Indicates”. What are the facts and figures? How much money did the stadium _net_ for the city? How much did they come out ahead in this shell game? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2015, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxpayer-money-should-not-be-used-on-stadiums/737296/85 "2015-11-13T20:48:42Z")
> [@BeeGee](#): > > Well, they’re paying off the bonds based on revenue from sales tax which seems to indicate that they’re making some money. No, it indicates they are collecting sales tax revenues. There is no indication (either way) that the city is making money _that it would not ordinarily have made_. > [@](#): > > They liked what happened with the Rangers’ stadium enough to do it all over again for the Cowboys. A subsidized ego-trip for the mayor and city commissioners? Or revenue growth? They definitely got the first. It’s unlikely they got the latter. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2015, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxpayer-money-should-not-be-used-on-stadiums/737296/86 "2015-11-13T21:56:31Z")
> [@BeeGee](#): > > Arlington, TX voted to spend $135 mil in the 90’s to build a new stadium for the Texas Rangers. The increase in sales tax allowed the debt to be paid off in 10 years instead of 20. You’re going to have trouble convincing me the ballpark was the only reason sales tax revenue went up. After all, since the ballpark was built, the city’s population grew quite a bit. Again, you have to consider marginal benefit. I have absolutely no doubt building a baseball stadium increased sales tax revenue, since otherwise people would not have been spending money on Rangers ticket, ball caps, and popcorn. But you’d also have more sales tax if the city had build 25 7-11s, or a new shopping mall, or a factory, or a museum, or basically anything at all. You could increase tax revenues by simply choosing some random idiot, naming him the Official Town Fool, and paying him $25 million a year on the condition he always resides in Arlington. The question is whether building a professional sports team’s stadium, in particular, is the best marginal use of tax dollars. To some extent that is a subjective decision, but in terms of pure return of investment money, it’s not even close. You’d be far better off spending the money on community centers and drug rehab clinics. One in six Arlington households lives in poverty; you could just write them all checks and watch as the sales tax revenues soared. Again, if the people of Arlington are just proud of having sports teams in lovely facilities (though they should at least have insisted the Cowboys name themselves after Arlington) then that’s great. You don’t make money back from a park, either, but the residents of Manhattan love Central Park and would crucify anyone who proposed to pave it over. But let’s at least be honest about it. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2015, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxpayer-money-should-not-be-used-on-stadiums/737296/87 "2015-11-13T21:59:36Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I think he was being facetious. ^^ Although I could argue in certain states it actually does do wonderful things for a community. San Antonio springs to mind. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxpayer-money-should-not-be-used-on-stadiums/737296/88 "2015-11-16T16:54:20Z")
The San Antonio Spurs did a lot for the city and were well established there long before they had a decent arena to play in. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxpayer-money-should-not-be-used-on-stadiums/737296/89 "2015-11-16T21:27:26Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Another possibility would be to have a league requirement that no team can relocate out of a city if there is any outstanding debt still owed on its facilities. If a city builds a stadium for a team, then the team would have to either commit to staying in the city until the stadium is paid off or have to pay off the city in order to be able to move. This, 100%. Bud Adams threatened to move the Oilers if he didn’t get more revenue. The Astrodome tore out the fantastic scoreboard we used to have to put in more seats so he could make more money. A couple of years later, he moved the team anyway. The Astros wanted a new playpen. Now we have Minute Maid Park and the Astrodome is rotting to pieces. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxpayer-money-should-not-be-used-on-stadiums/737296/90 "2015-11-17T04:26:12Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > This, 100%. Well, that would just end up being gamed the other way, with cities never paying off the last million or so. But the point is well understood - there’s no sound reason why cities refuse to lock owners into contracts over these facilities. It’d be almost impossible for the owners to refuse without killing the project, too, which would give the city leverage. “Sure Mr. Billionaire Sports Owner, we’d be _happy_ to build you a new stadium. You just need to sign over a portion of your merchandise revenue and agree that your team will maintain legal residences in the city and agree you’re locked into the city for the next fifteen years to pay for this. Or you can refuse and demand a free stadium via massive temper tantrum. In front of the television reporters right over there.” ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxpayer-money-should-not-be-used-on-stadiums/737296/91 "2015-11-17T13:47:45Z")
I would have less difficulty supporting taxpayer funded stadium construction were all the games held there were available on ordinary broadcast television and the internet. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taxpayer-money-should-not-be-used-on-stadiums/737296.md?page=4)