# TBA: Take Your $2,250 Tolls (Regressive Subsidies) & Shove Em Up Your 6-Lane Tunnel **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 16, 2005, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tba-take-your-2-250-tolls-regressive-subsidies-shove-em-up-your-6-lane-tunnel/294873 "2005-03-16T20:51:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tba-take-your-2-250-tolls-regressive-subsidies-shove-em-up-your-6-lane-tunnel/294873/1 "2005-03-16T20:51:13Z")
It’s now up to [$9 a day round trip](http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/news/wabc_031305_tollsincreasepm.html) for the pleasure of driving on seven of the NYC Triboro Bridge & Tunnel Authority’s crossings. I’m sick of hearing how this bureaucrat-laden authority is $600 million in the red. I despise handing my cash over to these robber barons. I’m not even bitching about the additional $1 a day increase - I’m fed up to the point I wanna see every toll plaza leveled and hauled over the Varrazano to the Arthur Kill Landfill (Re-open it). I’d love to have the _authority_ to tell these thieves, “Here’s your raze,” and call in the bulldozers. Sure, I have other options if I want to get to work – or save a few bucks doing so:[ol][li]I could get an 11% discount and only pay $2,000 annually with EZ-Pass - But I refuse to give the local government here the ability to charge me for toll service prior to using them – or affix a gadget to my windshield that gives creative and money-hungry politicians yet another tool to siphon more moola from my wallet.[_]I could take 2 commuter rail lines to go my 38 miles each way - But that would add 5 hours to my day.[_]I could move - But I don’t wanna fuckin move.[_]I could get a new job closer to home - See #3.[_]I could always walk, or jog on the days it isn’t raining - See #2[_]I could ride my bike - But they don’t allow pedestrians or bicycles on any crossing except the (non-TBTA) Brooklyn Bridge.[_]I could buy one of [those jetpacks](http://www.promisedplanet.com/Jupiter2000/images/JetPack0.jpg) - But the NYC nanny state apparatchiks would probably have me shot out of the sky.I could get one of those [Flying Car prototypes by Toyota or Moller](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=120307) – But everyone says I need a pilot’s license[/ol]Look, I totally understand the fact that a sizeable amount of revenues collected at the bridges & tunnels go to subsidize mass-transit – and without those subsidies, the price of a train ride would rise and more people would congest the roadways. Enough already! This system of robbing Peter to pay Paul is both regressive and inequitable. Let them subsidize the Metropolitan Transit Authority’s bus and rail fares with gasoline taxes – Even though they’re already 52¢ a gallon here. Let them collect revenues without having to pay the salary & pension of leeches like Officer Richard Fabiszak – who made $280,000 _working_ at a toll plaza in FY02. [/li] Where are the calls for fairness? Do the same people who I constantly screaming holy hell about fairness decide to shutup when unfair collection policies go to fund state workers salaries, greener modes of transportation and the status quo? _Joe Working Stiff_ has to **pay $2,250 a year** in hidden (non-tax deductible) fees cuz he crosses bridge A or drives thru tunnel B – But if he opts to take the non-toll bridge C – all he has to do is cut through Manhattan, add an hour to his trip and contend with the Euro-trash in the crosswalks. Think about it: For a person making $25 hour, they’re forced to cough up **4.3%** of their salary in a nickel-and-dime you to death revenue-collection scam. Trucks pay $46 to cross a bridge. Where do you think that additional cost is reflected? Can someone please find me a New York State politician who’s willing to take on this ‘independent government authority’ (read: goverment agency that gives cover to elected officials) & slay this hydra once and for all? I take a vow here and now that if such a person exists, I’ll write em out in the sum of $2,250 for a campaign donation. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tba-take-your-2-250-tolls-regressive-subsidies-shove-em-up-your-6-lane-tunnel/294873/2 "2005-03-16T21:09:03Z")
How much does it cost to maintain the bridges and tunnels? ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tba-take-your-2-250-tolls-regressive-subsidies-shove-em-up-your-6-lane-tunnel/294873/3 "2005-03-16T21:09:30Z")
[cue sitcom music]Grrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeen Acres is the place to be.[/csm] In my case, it’s Brown Acres, but nonetheless, it’s non-tollable Acres. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tba-take-your-2-250-tolls-regressive-subsidies-shove-em-up-your-6-lane-tunnel/294873/4 "2005-03-16T21:33:53Z")
The train from Seaford to Penn is 50 minutes including the transfer at Jamaica and costs $10 round trip if you buy a monthly pass. Yes, you’ll have to suffer the unbearable pain of paying in advance and carrying the _same_ piece of paper in your wallet for a _whole month_, but I’m sure you can handle it. Is driving really that much better? How much are you paying for parking, anyway? ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tba-take-your-2-250-tolls-regressive-subsidies-shove-em-up-your-6-lane-tunnel/294873/5 "2005-03-16T22:21:51Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > The train from Seaford to Penn is 50 minutes including the transfer at Jamaica and costs $10 round trip if you buy a monthly pass. Yes, you’ll have to suffer the unbearable pain of paying in advance and carrying the _same_ piece of paper in your wallet for a _whole month_, but I’m sure you can handle it. Is driving really that much better? How much are you paying for parking, anyway? If it was one commuter rail line & I worked in Manhattan, this bitch-fest of mine probably wouldn’t even exist (though my opinions about the unfairness of bridge & tunnel tolls wouldn’t change). Unfortunately, I work in Yonkers. Taking the LIRR to Penn, walking up to GCS and taking MetroNorth to a station 4 miles from my office can be done - but it takes 4-5 hours and costs at least twice the LIRR fare you quoted. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tba-take-your-2-250-tolls-regressive-subsidies-shove-em-up-your-6-lane-tunnel/294873/6 "2005-03-16T22:53:18Z")
I have long said that toll booths are in the top 5 stupidest inventions of all time, especially when placed on bridges. We have a natural bottleneck for traffic, and then we put a toll there! Stupid! And NY is one of the worst at this. I lived in the midwest for a while, and there was a bridge over a river in town. No toll. Everyone thought the idea of a toll was ridiculous. Why slow things down? I say pay for the roads and bridges with taxes. But then we get folks saying, “Well no fair - I don’t use the bridge!” To them I ask: Do you eat food? Do you purchase products of any kind? If so, they got to you on a truck that used the public roads and bridges. We all benefit from them. Pay the fucking tax. And EZ-Pass is the most insulting part of tolls. I can’t believe the public has swallowed it. They’re making it easier to cough up money at tollbooths. How wonderful, given that they are a stupid idea in the first place. On top of that, the government now has a handy tracking tool for our movements. And they could conceivably hand out speeding tickets using the time stamps. Great fucking idea. I refuse to ever get one. One day someone is going to get pissed off about tolls and intentionally plow a truck or something into one. At which point all the politicians will rush to declare how unsafe and helpful to terrorists they are, and how they should be abolished. Let’s save time: BAN TOLLBOOTHS!!! RIGHT FUCKING NOW!!! ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tba-take-your-2-250-tolls-regressive-subsidies-shove-em-up-your-6-lane-tunnel/294873/7 "2005-03-16T23:09:18Z")
> [@Mach Tuck](#): > > …EZ-Pass is…a stupid idea in the first place…the government now has a handy tracking tool for our movements. And they could conceivably hand out speeding tickets using the time stamps… Ya know, 10 years ago, the statement you made about the gov’t having a _‘handy tracking device…and using EZ Pass to hand out speeding tickets’_ would have been considered tinfoil-hattery. But since the (_post-1984_) introduction of these inaccurate [Red Light Cameras](http://www.transalt.org/campaigns/reclaiming/redlightcameras.html), your concerns aren’t at all far-fetched. ---
**Author:** ![caphis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19adc/32.png) [@caphis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caphis)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tba-take-your-2-250-tolls-regressive-subsidies-shove-em-up-your-6-lane-tunnel/294873/8 "2005-03-16T23:21:46Z")
> [@Mach Tuck](#): > > And EZ-Pass is the most insulting part of tolls. I can’t believe the public has swallowed it. They’re making it easier to cough up money at tollbooths. How wonderful, given that they are a stupid idea in the first place. On top of that, the government now has a handy tracking tool for our movements. And they could conceivably hand out speeding tickets using the time stamps. Great fucking idea. :rolleyes: Of course the public has swallowed it. The tollbooths aren’t just going to magically disappear because John Q. doesn’t like them. The fact remains, as pointed out, that in most places they are the quickest (and sometimes the only) way to get where you’re going, and they sure as hell aren’t leaving anytime soon. Once you accept the reality of that, getting an EZPass only makes sense if you plan to shave off as much time from the gridlock as you can.\* > [@](#): > > I refuse to ever get one. Good. One less person to block my passage through the non-stop automated lane. \*Note that I’m not from NYC and have only driven through a few times, and I don’t remember if you guys have dedicated EZPass lanes, though I think you do. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tba-take-your-2-250-tolls-regressive-subsidies-shove-em-up-your-6-lane-tunnel/294873/9 "2005-03-17T00:22:55Z")
A forty mile commute? As in you drive eighty miles every day of your life? ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tba-take-your-2-250-tolls-regressive-subsidies-shove-em-up-your-6-lane-tunnel/294873/10 "2005-03-17T00:49:11Z")
> [@](#): > > A forty mile commute? As in you drive eighty miles every day of your life? Not unheard of. What with work and university, I have about a 50 mile (round trip) commute every day. I used to have a coworker with an 80 mile commute, and currently have three coworkers that I know of who also have 50 mile commutes. And this is in Houston traffic, mind you. I spend a lot of time in my car. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tba-take-your-2-250-tolls-regressive-subsidies-shove-em-up-your-6-lane-tunnel/294873/11 "2005-03-17T01:33:28Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > A forty mile commute? As in you drive eighty miles every day of your life? Do you live in a bubble? That is a typical commute for many, many people. My wife has a 110 mile round-trip commute. Mine is 52. My mother had a 240 mile round trip commute for three years when I was in high school. Now that was a little extreme. People commute a long way. Sometimes the new job location doesn’t match your family’s new house location or vice versa and you just have to suck it up and just do it. People can’t always just pick up everything and move to be in the ideal location for their job. There are other factors to take into consideration and some may be out of our control. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tba-take-your-2-250-tolls-regressive-subsidies-shove-em-up-your-6-lane-tunnel/294873/12 "2005-03-17T01:39:35Z")
> [@caphis](#): > > :rolleyes: Of course the public has swallowed it. The tollbooths aren’t just going to magically disappear because John Q. doesn’t like them. The fact remains, as pointed out, that in most places they are the quickest (and sometimes the only) way to get where you’re going, and they sure as hell aren’t leaving anytime soon. Once you accept the reality of that, getting an EZPass only makes sense if you plan to shave off as much time from the gridlock as you can. I can’t quite tell if you approve of, or dislike tollbooths from your statement. However, I’m guessing you consider them a minor evil that borders on necessary. If true, I would ask if you roll over and accept all such minor evils without a peep? Seems to me if the system sucks, which I argue it does, that we should maybe make a teensy attempt to change it. Least we could do, and all that. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tba-take-your-2-250-tolls-regressive-subsidies-shove-em-up-your-6-lane-tunnel/294873/13 "2005-03-17T01:44:52Z")
> [@Mach Tuck](#): > > To them I ask: Do you eat food? Do you purchase products of any kind? If so, they got to you on a truck that used the public roads and bridges. We all benefit from them. Pay the fucking tax. And when the truck bringing my food crosses the bridge, it will pay the toll and the price will be passed on to me. Tolls are a great idea. The people who use the facilities pay for them and the people who don’t use them don’t have to pay extra in taxes. Seems fair to me. ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tba-take-your-2-250-tolls-regressive-subsidies-shove-em-up-your-6-lane-tunnel/294873/14 "2005-03-17T02:24:11Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > How much does it cost to maintain the bridges and tunnels? Probably less than they spend to maintain the parks and museums. I’ll shutup about tolls when I see admission booths set up at every entrance to Central Park. Drive along the this country’s interstate highways and take note of all the mountains they blasted through & all the waterways they traversed when building the roads. By your logic, we should have 1,000s of toll booths dotted across the system. > [@](#): > > And when the truck bringing my food crosses the bridge, it will pay the toll and the price will be passed on to me. Tolls are a great idea. The people who use the facilities pay for them and the people who don’t use them don’t have to pay extra in taxes. Seems fair to me. Fair? Hardly…It’s out right regressive. Let’s talk in round numbers. Let’s say the total cost added to one’s food bill is $100 a year. To my Grandmother, who lives on a fixed income of $10,000; that’s a 1% tax. To me, it’s about a 0.15% tax. To Trump, it’s a mere bag of shells. ---
**Author:** ![caphis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19adc/32.png) [@caphis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caphis)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tba-take-your-2-250-tolls-regressive-subsidies-shove-em-up-your-6-lane-tunnel/294873/15 "2005-03-17T02:33:59Z")
> [@Mach Tuck](#): > > I can’t quite tell if you approve of, or dislike tollbooths from your statement. However, I’m guessing you consider them a minor evil that borders on necessary. If true, I would ask if you roll over and accept all such minor evils without a peep? > > Seems to me if the system sucks, which I argue it does, that we should maybe make a teensy attempt to change it. Least we could do, and all that. Necessary evil. No one _likes_ tollbooths, but they’re not going anywhere. Funding has to come from somewhere, whether it be your pockets at taxtime or your pockets at drive-time. So, yes, given that there’s not much that can or will be done, my advice is to suck it up and deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tba-take-your-2-250-tolls-regressive-subsidies-shove-em-up-your-6-lane-tunnel/294873/16 "2005-03-17T02:39:23Z")
You need one of those cars that goes from car to speed boat in 20 seconds. I’m not sure where you would drive into and out of the water but I think that or maybe a hovercraft would do the trick. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tba-take-your-2-250-tolls-regressive-subsidies-shove-em-up-your-6-lane-tunnel/294873/17 "2005-03-17T03:01:56Z")
> [@caphis](#): > > So, yes, given that there’s not much that can or will be done, my advice is to suck it up and deal with it. Well, you can say that about a lot of things now can’t you? You shouldn’t assume that the tolls that you pay on a given road actually go towards that road’s use and maintenance. The Boston area is the king at tapping this source of income for unrelated areas. I live in the distant western suburbs of Boston. The main way to get into Boston from around here is to take the Massachusetts turnpike. The western suburbs tend to be fairly affluent and are seen as a cash cow. The Mass turnpike initially had its tolls put in place to fund that project. Fair enough. When the payoff timeline was completed, they didn’t reduce or take away the tolls, they raised them (a few times). Now the Mass Turnpike money gets funnelled into the Big Big cost overruns and other places that have nothing to do with the turnpike. It is just a tax for people that live in a certain metro region. There is always talk about adding tolls to some of the major arteries leading into Boston from other directions. People that it would affect scream that they can’t afford it even though we are expected too. P.S. My wife and I had toll bills of over $4100 for 2004. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tba-take-your-2-250-tolls-regressive-subsidies-shove-em-up-your-6-lane-tunnel/294873/18 "2005-03-17T03:50:01Z")
> [@JohnBckWLD](#): > > If it was one commuter rail line & I worked in Manhattan, this bitch-fest of mine probably wouldn’t even exist (though my opinions about the unfairness of bridge & tunnel tolls wouldn’t change). Unfortunately, I work in Yonkers. Taking the LIRR to Penn, walking up to GCS and taking MetroNorth to a station 4 miles from my office can be done - but it takes 4-5 hours and costs at least twice the LIRR fare you quoted. God damn. You have to _live_ in Seaford, and _work_ in Yonkers? If I were you I’d have blown my fucking brains out by now. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tba-take-your-2-250-tolls-regressive-subsidies-shove-em-up-your-6-lane-tunnel/294873/19 "2005-03-17T03:53:16Z")
> [@JohnBckWLD](#): > > Probably less than they spend to maintain the parks and museums. I’ll shutup about tolls when I see admission booths set up at every entrance to Central Park. BTW: Central Park is maintained almost entirely with private charitable donations. (Via the Central Park Conservancy.) ---
**Author:** ![chaparralv8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@chaparralv8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chaparralv8)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tba-take-your-2-250-tolls-regressive-subsidies-shove-em-up-your-6-lane-tunnel/294873/20 "2005-03-17T04:02:15Z")
1. Start out going NORTH on PENATIQUIT AVE toward MERRICK RD. \<0.1 miles 1. Turn LEFT onto MERRICK RD. \<0.1 miles 2. Turn RIGHT onto SEAMANS NECK RD. 0.3 miles 3. Turn SLIGHT RIGHT to stay on SEAMANS NECK RD. 0.2 miles 4. Turn LEFT onto SUNRISE HWY/POW/MIA MEMORIAL HWY/NY-27 W. Continue to follow NY-27 W. 18.7 miles 5. Take the CROSS BAY BLVD ramp. 0.1 miles 6. Turn RIGHT onto CROSS BAY BLVD. 0.7 miles 7. CROSS BAY BLVD becomes WOODHAVEN BLVD. 4.0 miles 8. WOODHAVEN BLVD becomes 59TH AVE. \<0.1 miles 9. ``` Turn LEFT onto QUEENS BLVD. 0.1 miles ``` 10. ``` Turn SLIGHT LEFT onto QUEENS BLVD/NY-25 W. 3.7 miles ``` 11. ``` Turn LEFT onto QUEENS PLZ N/BRIDGE PLZ N. <0.1 miles ``` 12. ``` QUEENS PLZ N/BRIDGE PLZ N becomes QUEENSBORO BRIDGE. 0.2 miles ``` 13. ``` Stay STRAIGHT to go onto QUEENSBORO BRG LOWER LEVEL/59TH ST BRIDGE. 1.0 miles ``` 14. ``` Take the 2 AVE-SOUTH ramp. 0.1 miles ``` 15. ``` Take the 60 ST WEST ramp. <0.1 miles ``` 16. ``` Turn SLIGHT LEFT onto E 60TH ST. 0.3 miles ``` 17. ``` Turn RIGHT onto PARK AVE. 1.8 miles ``` 18. ``` Turn LEFT onto E 97TH ST. 1.1 miles ``` 19. ``` Turn RIGHT onto BROADWAY. 3.6 miles ``` 20. ``` Turn SLIGHT LEFT to stay on BROADWAY. 7.1 miles ``` 21. ``` End at Yonkers, NY US ``` Mapquest says it adds 35 minutes each way. I don’t know how much you can save by using 495 instead of 27. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tba-take-your-2-250-tolls-regressive-subsidies-shove-em-up-your-6-lane-tunnel/294873.md?page=2)