# TCU to Big XII **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 11, 2011, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tcu-to-big-xii/599235 "2011-10-11T00:37:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tcu-to-big-xii/599235/21 "2011-10-15T22:14:29Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > I don’t get the appeal of Texas and Idaho schools in the Big East? Is $$$ really that important? If these go through, the schools need to abolish their geography departments! The Big 10 has 12 teams and the Big XII has 10. Should those schools close their math departments? The appeal is that there really aren’t many East Coast teams who are viable additions. There’s UCF, East Carolina, and that’s pretty much it. The MAC schools are all pretty big (20,000+ students), but none have the money to expand their football programs and particularly their stadia. Florida International is big enough, but has only been competitive in the _Sun Belt_ for a season and a half. The Missouri Valley schools are all too small (sub-10k enrollment). The Horizon League is just basketball schools. So it’s basically C-USA, half of which is in or near Texas; the WAC, or the WCC. The Tampa Bay Buccaneers used to play in the NFC Central; the Atlanta Falcons and Carolina Panthers played in the NFC West; the Dallas Cowboys _still_ play in the NFC East. ETA: More importantly, to maintain Division 1/FBS eligibility, the conference has to have at least 8 football teams. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tcu-to-big-xii/599235/22 "2011-10-17T17:10:48Z")
I agree the math is screwy too! Geography is a bigger sin IMO. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tcu-to-big-xii/599235/23 "2011-10-17T17:54:51Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The Tampa Bay Buccaneers used to play in the NFC Central; the Atlanta Falcons and Carolina Panthers played in the NFC West; the Dallas Cowboys _still_ play in the NFC East. > > ETA: More importantly, to maintain Division 1/FBS eligibility, the conference has to have at least 8 football teams. FWIW, I believe Tampa Bay is further West than traditional “Football Central” cities of Pittsburgh and Cleveland ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tcu-to-big-xii/599235/24 "2011-10-17T18:02:16Z")
> [@notfrommensa](#): > > FWIW, I believe Tampa Bay is further West than traditional “Football Central” cities of Pittsburgh and Cleveland Well, shit. Tampa is 82 degrees West; Cleveland and Pittsburgh are 81 and 80, respectively. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tcu-to-big-xii/599235/25 "2011-10-25T20:12:16Z")
Now West Virginia is headed to the Big XII! Seriously! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tcu-to-big-xii/599235/26 "2011-10-25T20:16:56Z")
There will eventually be 4 sixteen team divisions like the NCAA basketball. Then a national playoff. They are dancing around now trying to pick teams that are good fits. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tcu-to-big-xii/599235/27 "2011-10-25T21:31:08Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > It’s one thing to set up a superconference where 22 teams are fighting for one automatic bid. Why would 12 teams which are already eligible for one want to bother? Because in the future, there may be fewer bids. PAC 12, Big 10, SEC. Add one more conference and you have the makings of a four-team playoff. At that point, the four conferences can tell everybody else – including Notre Dame and the NCAA itself if need be – to go pound sand. The Big East and the Big 12 are fighting to be that fourth conference. Once one of those clearly pulls ahead, nobody that matters is left. As I put in another thread, the best solution IMO is for the Big 12 and Big East to form a football-only superconference. ---
**Author:** ![Snupzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/54ee81/32.png) [@Snupzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snupzilla)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tcu-to-big-xii/599235/28 "2011-10-25T23:28:35Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > There will eventually be 4 sixteen team divisions like the NCAA basketball. Then a national playoff. They are dancing around now trying to pick teams that are good fits. I’m starting to doubt the eventuality of this. While TV revenue is ultimately driving conferences to expand, I think the networks, especially ESPN, will work hard undermine too much consolidation. They don’t want their cartel, I mean conference partners being so powerful that they can dictate all the terms of the contracts. While the sixth big conference (big East) has to be sacrificed, they will work very hard to keep a fifth conference (Big 12) profitable enough for Texas and Oklahoma to want to keep it together. Part of me thinks this is a big driver for the Longhorn Network. Oklahoma will probably get a very generous payout for their third tier rights soon too. ---
**Author:** ![HubZilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@HubZilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HubZilla)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tcu-to-big-xii/599235/29 "2011-10-25T23:39:48Z")
Here’s what I wonder: will the established conferences try to streamline to get rid of “dead weight”? Do schools like Indiana, Vandy, Wake Forest, Iowa State, and Washington State really belong in the big BCS football conferences? Will they be “switched out”? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tcu-to-big-xii/599235/30 "2011-10-25T23:48:55Z")
> [@HubZilla](#): > > Here’s what I wonder: will the established conferences try to streamline to get rid of “dead weight”? I don’t know the bylaws, but I doubt the conferences have the authority to kick anyone out. Besides, every conference wants cupcakes to make for easy wins for the big schools. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tcu-to-big-xii/599235/31 "2011-10-26T00:15:13Z")
> [@furt](#): > > PAC 12, Big 10, SEC. Add one more conference and you have the makings of a four-team playoff. Was the exclusion of the ACC from the list done out of malice or ignorance? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tcu-to-big-xii/599235/32 "2011-10-26T00:35:57Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Because in the future, there may be fewer bids. > > PAC 12, Big 10, SEC. Add one more conference and you have the makings of a four-team playoff. At that point, the four conferences can tell everybody else – including Notre Dame and the NCAA itself if need be – to go pound sand. The Big East and the Big 12 are fighting to be that fourth conference. Once one of those clearly pulls ahead, nobody that matters is left. > > As I put in another thread, the best solution IMO is for the Big 12 and Big East to form a football-only superconference. Meh. The other conferences wax and wane; only the SEC, and, to a lesser extent, the Big 12 and PAC-10/12 are relevant every year. > [@Zakalwe](#): > > Was the exclusion of the ACC from the list done out of malice or ignorance? Relevance. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tcu-to-big-xii/599235/33 "2011-10-26T00:55:23Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Meh. The other conferences wax and wane; only the SEC, and, to a lesser extent, the Big 12 and PAC-10/12 are relevant every year. > > Relevance. 😃 BCS Championships By Conference SEC 7 Big 12 2 ACC 1 Big Ten 1 Big East 1 (won by Miami, now an ACC school) Pac-12 0 You were saying? ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tcu-to-big-xii/599235/34 "2011-10-26T02:31:43Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > Was the exclusion of the ACC from the list done out of malice or ignorance? Rush. Yeah, the ACC is moving into that #4 slot. Which makes it all the more urgent for the Big 12/Big East to try to salvage a place at the table. > [@Zakalwe](#): > > BCS Championships By Conference > SEC 7 > Big 12 2 > ACC 1 > Big Ten 1 > Big East 1 (won by Miami, now an ACC school) > Pac-12 0 > > You were saying? What matters a hell of a lot more than wins is TV market share. The ACC brings a lot of eyeballs to the table; the Pac-12 does too, lack of championships be damned. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tcu-to-big-xii/599235/35 "2011-10-26T03:36:04Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > BCS Championships By Conference > SEC 7 > Big 12 2 > ACC 1 > Big Ten 1 > Big East 1 (won by Miami, now an ACC school) > Pac-12 0 > > You were saying? 1. I was kidding. 2. I’m not sure exactly what this proves, but I’m pretty damn sure it’s not that the ACC is relevant. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tcu-to-big-xii/599235/36 "2011-10-26T11:17:42Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > 1. I was kidding. > 2. I’m not sure exactly what this proves, but I’m pretty damn sure it’s not that the ACC is relevant. Yeah, I get that you were “kidding” although your 2nd item tends to cast doubt on your lack of seriousness. Anyway, the ACC is at least as relevant as the PAC-10 and probably as relevant as the Big1G in terms of the National Championship picture. Frankly, until somebody beats them, everyone is fighting for 2nd place to the SEC. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tcu-to-big-xii/599235/37 "2011-10-26T13:20:21Z")
Well, yeah. I’m agreeing with you; I’m saying the conferences are taking a huge risk by shutting others out, because in the end the SEC is the only one that matters. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tcu-to-big-xii/599235/38 "2011-10-26T20:25:57Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I don’t know the bylaws, but I doubt the conferences have the authority to kick anyone out. Besides, every conference wants cupcakes to make for easy wins for the big schools. Temple was kicked out of the Big East in 2004 for…wait for it…not attracting enough fan support, i.e. not making enough money for the conference. I’m sure the Big 10, SEC, and Pac-12 will have little trouble telling the little guys to take a hike if the dollars aren’t there. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tcu-to-big-xii/599235/39 "2011-10-27T00:48:25Z")
> [@HubZilla](#): > > Here’s what I wonder: will the established conferences try to streamline to get rid of “dead weight”? > > Do schools like Indiana, Vandy, Wake Forest, Iowa State, and Washington State really belong in the big BCS football conferences? Will they be “switched out”? While Wa State has been down for a few years, they were ranked top 10 frequently in the 90’s and as recently as 2003 - it’s a cycle ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tcu-to-big-xii/599235/40 "2011-10-27T01:41:06Z")
And Wake Forest won the ACC in the last few years. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tcu-to-big-xii/599235.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tcu-to-big-xii/599235.md?page=3)