Tea Partiers Are Well Versed in Science

As the link shows, there are many democrats that are against what the NIMBY forces are doing with Yucca Mountain.

What I do say to that is that if Nevada will not do it, it seems that places like Arizona will, of course I do wonder why people like McCain that complained about YM closing were not more insistent on developing an Arizona dumping ground early as YM had so many people opposing it.

Unlike you I do not think it will be easy to make even in a state so red as this one, IIRC there are already proposals that approved for the development of the sites over here, but well see what happens once the actual work starts. I do know that I would not mind working in a place like that, and I do live close to a nuclear power plant that I do support.

Duplicate.

No, but it was an indication that the (not very liberal) Senate Majority Leader was against it. A big part of Yucca is NIMBY and it’s a bipartisan issue. In some ways it’s political suicide to support it in Nevada. On the other hand, it’s not completely illogical. There is some resentment that it’s forced on the state instead of say, shared with Arizona. And the issue wouldn’t be confined to just some isolated area.

GIGO, why did Obama campaign against YM while McCain did not? It seems pretty clear to me that, overall, Republicans are on the correct side of the fence on nuclear power, which is ironic given that they are on the wrong side concerning climate change.

GWB supported YM (Reid called it “reckless”) and yet carried Nevada in both presidential elections.

You only look at what is convenient uh? My remarks about McCain are related to the fact that even him in so red a state did not do the right thing. We will see now if he will press on a local dump ground that was needed yesterday as the Palo Verde nuclear plant continues to store its nuclear waste in their location.

BTW, one can call McCain many things but he is not a tea partier.

The NIMBY issue is a bit of a sidetrack because:
a) the local opposition happened in the context of the much larger and noisier national movement against Yucca Mountain, which was mostly a lefty movement that was given mainstream legitimacy by the media.
b) NIMBY opposition by definition is motivated mostly by proximity to the project, and is going to be an aspect of getting any large energy system component built. It cancels itself out unless we can show that there was more or less NIMBY opposition to Yucca than there is for it’s equivalent in coal power generation components like mines and power plants.

The root of the waste problem in the U.S. goes back to Jimmy Carter, who signed an executive order preventing the reprocessing of nuclear fuel. That’s ultimately why the U.S. has radioactive waste stored in ‘temporary’ holding facilities all around the country while France can get 70% of its electricity from nuclear without a significant waste problem. France reprocesses its spent fuel, and most of the leftover waste only remains dangerous for a few hundred years and is much lower in quantity.

It’s projected that the amount of high-level waste France’s reactors will produce over the next 20 years will be about 2600 square meters. That’s a block of waste about 13 meters high and wide, to power most of the energy needs of a major country for 20 years. You could fit 100 years of France’s high level nuclear waste in an Ikea store. Hmm… Not a bad idea. The Swedes will do something with it. We can call it Sklort or something, and if it was an Ikea product it would be nearly impossible to assemble into a bomb.

Anyway, the U.S. could be in that position today, if not for the efforts of the left-wing ‘green’ movement and the idiocy of Jimmy Carter. No Yucca mountain needed.

And let’s also acknowledge that one of the main reasons nuclear power has become so expensive and non-competitive is because people on the left in the States have delayed pretty much every nuclear power project with repeated lawsuits, demands for endless environmental studies, and other harassing techniques. On a project that requires billions of dollars in up-front capital, delays are incredibly expensive. This was especially true around the time when nuclear was killed off because interest rates were very high, and a five year delay could easily double the cost of a nuclear power plant.

Then those same people argue that nuclear is non-viable because it costs too much to build the plants. A clever strategy, and one that has done great harm to the U.S.'s energy independence and to global warming.

France’s regulatory system allowed for sensible ‘type certification’ of a nuclear power plant, and subsequent plants based on the same design get accelerated approval and protection from frivolous or duplicated lawsuits and injunctions. The U.S. regulatory system was ‘strengthened’ under Carter to prevent that type of certification. However, under new regulations type certification is allowed again.

Nuclear power languished in the U.S. from 1992 until 2005 when Bush enacted the energy policy act of 2005. Until then, not a single license for a nuclear power plant had been issued in the States for decades. To his credit, Obama has continued Bush’s policies and even extended them, and has to be considered to be pro-nuclear.

Many on the left are coming around now, because Global Warming fears are trumping their fear of nuclear power. But at the time when nuclear power looked like the future, the left moved in lockstep to oppose it, and they fought hard against it. I was there - I was involved in the debates. I was in college during the big anti-nuclear hysteria, and I know how the sides lined up.

And even if many of them are now on board with nuclear power, the major opposition to it still comes from the left. Even if you want to blame NIMBY-ism, that too is a product of the propaganda and hysteria pushed by anti-nuclear activists in the 80’s and 90’s. The scaremongering was way over the top, and to bring this around to the subject of this thread, highly unscientific.

The existence of NIMBYism itself is a product of the anti-nuclear hysteria and disinformation campaigns carried out by the anti-nuclear activists in the 70’s, 80’s, and 90’s. Hollywood piled on with movies like “The China Syndrome”. The average person’s understanding of the risks of nuclear power are still informed by that propaganda.

Ask the average person what happened at Three Mile Island. Ask how many people were killed, or what happened to the environment. The correct answers: None, and almost nothing. But that’s not the public perception. Ask them whether nuclear power kills more people than coal, or natural gas, or wind, or solar. I guarantee you the average person will give you a wildly wrong answer

The correct answer: Even including Chernobyl, nuclear power has killed fewer people than any other power source, including wind and solar. For example, in England in 2011 alone there were 163 wind turbine accidents that killed 14 people.

If you ask people near Yucca what the risks are, they will almost certainly give you wildly over-stated answers because the anti-Yucca activists have blown the risks all out of proportion.

So NIMBYism is best seen as a side effect of general anti-nuclear activism, and not a separate cause of delays or cancellations of nuclear activities.

Yep, we all know that France is full of liberals (according to Republican strawman circa 2003), yet the country has been running plants for years with no problems and gets a huge portion of their energy from it. The US freaked out over Three Mile Island (zero deaths), yet there are Superfunds all over the place that are mostly ignored in popular culture.
(on preview I see that you mention that)

And? Harry Reid is certainly not a Republican Kingmaker. The point is that it’s not a partisan issue as much as a regional one. I agree that some on the left oppose it for the wrong reason (nuclear is always bad!)

Legit reasons (I’m saying they are less emotion-driven, not that they are necessarily a big deal) to oppose Yucca Mountain, that I alluded to, include the fact that that nuclear waste will need to be transported all that way, with contamination and terrorism concerns, however very hypothetical they are.

That and the 60 story MegaCoyote that the waste will create.

Simple solution: Divide the waste in half, and create a 30 story MegaCoyote and a 30 story MegaRoadrunner. Then sit back and watch hilarity ensue.

Oh, and we should change the name of Yucca Mountain to the “Acme Waste Disposal Company”

I was wondering why there was no more of an official position on nuclear power from the Tea Party, IIRC as the case in Georgia shows, the increasing costs of a few rare nuclear power plants in development has made the Tea Party to join forces with some environmentalist groups that oppose them.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-12/tea-party-s-green-faction-fights-for-solar-in-red-states.html

Careful what you wish for. The Mega Rocket Skates’ exhaust alone would blow away Reno.

Meh.

You said supporting YM was potential suicide and GWB clearly shows it is not. At the highest levels it is Republicans largely favoring nuclear power and Democrats who are working against it.

Sigh…

George Bush: home state = Texas, running for national office. If Bush had favored ending subsidies for corn farmers, I’m sure it would piss off a lot of Iowans, but people in California wouldn’t care.

But GWB won Nevada in both elections (2000 results and 2004 results). How can it be suicide if he won while supporting YM?

I’m not sure what you on about, quibbling the definition of “in?”. Bush, and Obama, and Clinton, were running for POTUS. Some people are single-issue voters and will ignore everything else they like about the candidate. But Bush had lots of people voting for than the small portion who care about one thing, and I don’t know of any states that work that way (Texans won’t like you if you’re anti-steer? And is it pro- or anti-queer these days?) But if Gov. Sandoval were to announce he were opening Yucca Mountain up, it would hurt him, but not necessarily break the election (especially since I don’t think many people know about him except that he’s better than the last guy).

I also don’t think that, if 1000 Americans were asked to list everything that GWB stood for, the vast majority would not list that in the top 100. On energy issues, he was most associated with oil drilling, as I recall (offshore and ANWR).

I guess I’m confused at what your point is, then. The overall contention (as I understand it) is whether Republicans (and Tea Partiers specifically) are more likely to ignore science than Democrats. Clearly there are topics (e.g. climate change and evolution) where Republicans ignore the science more than Democrats.

My belief is that both sides are equally guilty overall. Sam Stone posted some data that shows, in some topics, where Democrats are worse than Republicans. His supposition (a good one IMO) is that both sides ignore the science when it goes against their political ideals. The rebuttal was given that Republicans were worse because the cases where they ignore the science (climate change being the big one) have larger consequences.

My counter is that resistance to nuclear power comes more from the left. My supporting evidence is that Reagan and both Bushes all seem to support it while Obama has made moves (YM) against it. Bill Clinton appears to be pushing solar over nuclear. Nuclear power is, IMO, the best avenue for lowering CO2 production and thus opposition to nuclear power has negative consequences.

Not all liberals oppose NP, obviously. The SDMB is largely in favor. However, this is true for other topics. My guess is that most of the SDMB conservatives believe in evolution. There are probably some who believe the science of CC. (If I count as a conservative–I consider myself centrist–then there is at least one. grin)

What’s ironic (to me) is that the right ignores CC but pushes nuclear while the left trumpets CC and fights nuclear. The Republicans have the solution for a problem they deny while the Democrats deny the solution to the problem!

If I understand it correctly you are arguing that fear of nuclear power is bilateral and that the actions of the various presidents means nothing.

Sure, but if you’re trying to stick to the OP, that’s been derailed for quite some time. I didn’t pretend to be arguing Tea Party stuff.

I don’t know what Clinton thinks(thought), but comparing solar to nuclear is stupid. Solar is great to lower your own house’s energy bills, in the mediumish-term. It is getting near time where nuclear is not the ideal option, but it is getting to be necessary. Solar, wind, are pretty good for local power, but harder to transport. The left is retarded over nuclear, the right is stupid for believing oil/coal will last. IMHO the best are hydro and nuclear, geothermal in some places.

SDMB would be a good government until we kill each other over grammar or some such.

There are plenty of “dopers” who hate climate change, evolution, circumcision, whatever. But their join date tends to be November 2013 (future dopers: adjust to your current month).

Yucca Mountain isn’t about fear of nuclear, it’s about being told that you have to store this stuff. NIMBY for sure, but not completely irrational. I think things got off track.