# Tea partiers waffle over cutting defense budget **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 27, 2011, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-partiers-waffle-over-cutting-defense-budget/569198 "2011-01-27T16:55:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-partiers-waffle-over-cutting-defense-budget/569198/1 "2011-01-27T16:55:11Z")
HAHA, I knew it. As soon as they had to make a hard decision about cutting defense spending, these so-called fiscal conservatives backtrack. > **[G.O.P. Splits Over Plans to Cut Defense Budget (Published 2011)](https://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/27/us/politics/27pentagon.html)** > > Even as their leaders insist on the need for military cuts, divisions have opened among Republicans about how to chop Pentagon spending that comes to more than a half trillion dollars a year. > [@](#): > > In an interview, Representative Vicky Hartzler, a freshman Republican from Missouri who was backed by former Gov. Sarah Palin of Alaska, said that her priorities were jobs and “reining in runaway spending.” But when asked about the Pentagon budget, Ms. Hartzler, who defeated former Representative Ike Skelton, the longtime Democratic chairman of the Armed Services Committee, said that “now is not the time to talk about defense cuts while we are engaged in two theaters with men and women in harm’s way.” > > Ms. Hartzler said she questioned the $78 billion in cuts to the military budget over the next five years, and added, “I will be a staunch defender of military installations in my district and across the country.” Ms. Hartzler’s district has two large military bases, Fort Leonard Wood and Whiteman Air Force Base, home to the B-2 stealth bomber and a new ground-control station for unmanned Predator drones. Granted, I’ll give credit to Dick Armey and another Tea Party congresscritter they quoted in that story, Chris Gibson, for at least giving lip service to the notion that something needs to be done to rein in defense spending. But overall I can’t say that I’m surprised that the Tea Partiers, and GOP in general, are hemming and hawing over this. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-partiers-waffle-over-cutting-defense-budget/569198/2 "2011-01-27T17:14:32Z")
Silly\*\* joebuck20.\*\* Fiscally responsible people only talk about cutting “waste” and “red tape” and “welfare for the lazy”. These incredibly specific proposals will lead to a balanced budget in no time! P.S. and tax cuts. They’ll lead to more money. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-partiers-waffle-over-cutting-defense-budget/569198/3 "2011-01-27T17:16:51Z")
Yes, it’s entirely predictable. Somewhat less predictable, but still probable, is that they will make sure government keeps its hands off their constituents Medicare and Social Security. And taxes go without saying. Oh, and a healthy amount of them are okay with earmarks for _their_ district. Which means of course that they are proposing deficits as far as the eye can see. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-partiers-waffle-over-cutting-defense-budget/569198/4 "2011-01-27T17:17:00Z")
A quick guide: Money spent on someone else = waste. Money spent on you = vital to the nation’s interests. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-partiers-waffle-over-cutting-defense-budget/569198/5 "2011-01-27T17:24:40Z")
Until the Tea Party has something to offer other than meaningless platitudes wrapped in the flag, it’s best to simply assume they’re retarded children who don’t understand how math works and treat them as such. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-partiers-waffle-over-cutting-defense-budget/569198/6 "2011-01-27T18:31:47Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Somewhat less predictable, but still probable, is that they will make sure government keeps its hands off their constituents Medicare and Social Security. To be fair, the truth is they fucking HATE giving medicare and social security to the sick and disabled and old. They were only pretending to defend them to scare people into thinking the Democrats were going to get the government involved in Medicare. If they could gut those programs they’d do it in a second. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-partiers-waffle-over-cutting-defense-budget/569198/7 "2011-01-27T18:57:35Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](#): > > To be fair, the truth is they fucking HATE giving medicare and social security to the sick and disabled and old. Not only that, they don’t **understand it**. Much like the idiot at the Tea Party rally in DC with the placard that said “keep the government out of my Medicare” these frosh congressoids really don’t know how these programs work. One of them was yammering about the free market that thankfully provided his 85 year old mother with excellent medical care. His mother is not independently wealthy, she has and uses Medicare coverage, but he went on for several minutes about it, utterly convinced that she’s not one of those lazy scroungers relying upon some government program and by George, no one oughta. As much as I hate the idea that you have to be a lawyer to be elected to higher office, we’ve put together a freshman class in congress populated by used car hucksters, pizzeria owners and opthalmologists, and the new GOP leadership is full of big hair marketing consultants like that smirking frat boy who gave the official SOTU response, and it’s very clear that many of them (even with multiple terms in the house under their belts) don’t really understand the fundamentals of how the U.S. government operates. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-partiers-waffle-over-cutting-defense-budget/569198/8 "2011-01-27T19:24:31Z")
There’s is no such thing as the “Tea Party”. There is no unity, there is no center, there is no leader. The biggest chunk of “TP” is the Tea Party Expess, which is little more than an overblown PR stunt headed up by Dick Armey and funded by billionaires, most especially the justly despised Koch Brothers, may a thousand diseases of the camel fester in their groins. A telling moment. Tea Party Express announced some time ago, via Maximum Leader Dick Armey, that the Tea Party was ferociously commited on the issue of “net neutrality”, and came down firmly on the side of Comcast in this dispute. I find two things very hard to believe there. One, looking at the crowds of tea partiers, its hard to believe any of them give a rat’s about “net neutrality”. Numero two-o, is that anybody, anywhere, loves Comcast. Maybe a day later, it sank beneath the waves without a ripple, but for just a moment there, a huge inflamed grassroots movement came out in favor of the cable company. The widely beloved and admired Comcast. There is no such thing as the “Tea Party”. Its not a discrete entity, it is a sprawling amoeba of retarded political thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-partiers-waffle-over-cutting-defense-budget/569198/9 "2011-01-27T20:28:42Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > As much as I hate the idea that you have to be a lawyer to be elected to higher office, we’ve put together a freshman class in congress populated by used car hucksters, pizzeria owners and opthalmologists, and the new GOP leadership is full of big hair marketing consultants like that smirking frat boy who gave the official SOTU response, and it’s very clear that many of them (even with multiple terms in the house under their belts) don’t really understand the fundamentals of how the U.S. government operates. Wonder how the US would have turned out to be if those had been the actual Founding Fathers. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-partiers-waffle-over-cutting-defense-budget/569198/10 "2011-01-27T21:27:28Z")
Your thread title is in the plural, but you give us only one person as an example. Ok, that’s not too big a deal, but… Did this person campaign for cutting to DOD budget? If not, how is that a “waffle”? ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-partiers-waffle-over-cutting-defense-budget/569198/11 "2011-01-27T21:55:51Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Your thread title is in the plural, but you give us only one person as an example. > > Ok, that’s not too big a deal, but… Did this person campaign for cutting to DOD budget? If not, how is that a “waffle”? Well, the story also includes this quote: > [@](#): > > Representative Scott Rigell, a Republican newcomer from Virginia who at first sparred with the Tea Party but then signed a pledge supporting many of its positions, said that he, too, was committed to a strong military and the spending it required. In an interview after the hearing, he said that “as a very first priority, it is our constitutional duty to stand an army.” > > Mr. Rigell said he supported in the Pentagon budget “any responsible, wise reduction that can clearly be identified as waste,” but needed more specific information before he could judge where to cut. His son, he said, is a member of the Marine reserve and drives an amphibious assault vehicle, an earlier version of the Expeditionary Fighting Vehicle. On Mr. Gates’s decision to eliminate the E.F.V., Mr. Rigell said, “The abruptness of the decision is concerning me.” As for them waffling - they campaigned on reining in runaway spending, but then shy away from tackling military spending, which represents the single biggest government expenditure and one you can’t ignore if you’re serious about lowering the deficit while insisting on tax cuts. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-partiers-waffle-over-cutting-defense-budget/569198/12 "2011-01-27T22:01:17Z")
With a military base in every backyard, and a bolt for a bomber made in every congressional district, it is damned tough to cut the military. CATO has their budget recommendations, and this is what they want to do to military spending: [http://www.downsizinggovernment.org/defense](http://www.downsizinggovernment.org/defense) > [@](#): > > Cato Institute defense experts Christopher Preble and Benjamin Friedman have proposed a lengthy list of cuts to U.S. military spending totaling $1.2 trillion over 10 years.15 By 2020, their proposal would reduce spending by about $150 billion annually, based on a strategy of restraint and reduced intervention abroad. > > In proposing their plan, Preble and Friedman argue that the United States would be better off taking a wait-and-see approach to distant threats, while letting friendly nations bear more of the costs of their own defense. They note that U.S. policymakers have supported many extraneous missions for the military aside from the basic requirement to defend the nation. There is no doubt that America’s military budget has become very bloated. Even aside from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, Department of Defense spending roughly doubled between 2001 and 2011.16 [http://www.downsizinggovernment.org/balanced-budget-plan](http://www.downsizinggovernment.org/balanced-budget-plan) ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-partiers-waffle-over-cutting-defense-budget/569198/13 "2011-01-27T22:45:52Z")
According to yesterday’s [Slate.com](http://Slate.com) article, these so-called “fiscal conservatives” are planning the majority of their cuts to come from the small sliver of discretionary spending in the federal budget. They’re not touching defense, medicare, medicaid, or social security. Only in the [non-defense discretionary](http://www.slate.com/id/2282386/) budget. In the end, these tea bagging shitholes are simply typical conservatives in disguise, seeking to trim necessary but liberal policies in favor of their fat, bloated military and retirement funds ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-partiers-waffle-over-cutting-defense-budget/569198/14 "2011-01-27T23:06:27Z")
I hear they also get defensive over cutting the waffle budget. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-partiers-waffle-over-cutting-defense-budget/569198/15 "2011-01-28T00:06:06Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > Well, the story also includes this quote: Well, that’s the same thing. There is no indication they ever campaigned on cutting DOD spending. > [@](#): > > As for them waffling - they campaigned on reining in runaway spending, but then shy away from tackling military spending, which represents the single biggest government expenditure and one you can’t ignore if you’re serious about lowering the deficit while insisting on tax cuts. So what? Unless they campaigned on cutting defense, they’re not “waffling over cutting defense budget”. Defense may be the biggest single expense, but it’s still less than 1/4 of the budget. Sorry, but you put a thesis out there, and it doesn’t stand up to close scrutiny. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-partiers-waffle-over-cutting-defense-budget/569198/16 "2011-01-28T00:14:14Z")
> [@](#): > > Vicky Hartzler Turns out she’s a welfare queen: > [@](#): > > the 1,700-acre Hartzler farm, which — according to the Environmental Working Group’s “Farm Subsidy Database” — received about $774,000 in federal payments (mainly commodity subsidies for corn, soybeans and wheat) from 1995 through 2009. [http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/republican-hypocrisy-watch/](http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/republican-hypocrisy-watch/) > [@](#): > > she says some agriculture programs represent a “national defense issue” because they help guarantee that “we have a safety net to make sure we have food security in our country,” ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-partiers-waffle-over-cutting-defense-budget/569198/17 "2011-01-28T00:39:34Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Well, that’s the same thing. There is no indication they ever campaigned on cutting DOD spending. > > So what? Unless they campaigned on cutting defense, they’re not “waffling over cutting defense budget”. Defense may be the biggest single expense, but it’s still less than 1/4 of the budget. > > Sorry, but you put a thesis out there, and it doesn’t stand up to close scrutiny. Is this the same thing like when conservatives defend Bush and Cheney because they never specifically said the sentence “Saddam Hussein is responsible for 9/11”? The campaign by the Tea Baggers were about cutting waste and excessive government. The military’s budget represents the biggest portion of waste and excessive spending in the entire budget. Anyone who says they are looking to reduce government, reduce spending, and cutting the deficit needs to look at military expenditures. Now they are not doing that. They are dishonest hypocrites ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-partiers-waffle-over-cutting-defense-budget/569198/18 "2011-01-28T01:01:54Z")
> [@YogSoSoth](#): > > The campaign by the Tea Baggers were about cutting waste and excessive government. The military’s budget represents the biggest portion of waste and excessive spending in the entire budget. I think what **John Mace** is saying is that if that’s your point, the thread title should be something along the lines of “Tea partiers waffle over cutting spending to preserve bloated military budget” or what have you. Technically, if the Teapers were never in favor of cutting defense spending _per se_, then it doesn’t count as “waffling” when they don’t cut it. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-partiers-waffle-over-cutting-defense-budget/569198/19 "2011-01-28T01:06:47Z")
It wholly depends on what you define the mission of the military. Do you want to be able to respond to Taiwan when the balloon goes up and China starts some shit? Better have a bunch of F-22s, and carriers in the area. Do you want to be able to maintain two simultaneous engagements like Iraq and Afghanistan? I know that there are a ton of doves here, and that’s fine, but just cutting for the sake of cutting is bad policy. I know that Gates (and Obama) are looking to shutter JFCOM (Virginia/Norfolk) and both Warner and Webb coming out against it (both Democrats). So while it’s de rigeur on this board (and the NY Times… ) to hammer Tea Partiers, it’s a little disingenuous to claim that they have the monopoly on using DOD dollars to create jobs. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-partiers-waffle-over-cutting-defense-budget/569198/20 "2011-01-28T01:14:22Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > So while it’s de rigeur on this board (and the NY Times… ) to hammer Tea Partiers, it’s a little disingenuous to claim that they have the monopoly on using DOD dollars to create jobs. Tea Partiers aren’t retards because they want to maintain a strong military or use DOD dollars to create jobs or because they view the military budget as more important than other programs like Medicare or Social Security. They’re retards because their platform is based on complaining that the government spends too much, without being able/willing to propose specific detailed cuts. You make a decent case for maintaining a strong carrier-based navy and air force. Fine, if we as a country want that, we have to pay for it. Ditto not having our elderly eating dog food. Ditto not having people die in emergency room waiting areas because they don’t have an insurance card in their pocket. Ditto having our food inspected so we don’t get e coli outbreaks. Ditto having security at our sea and airports. Children expect to demand things and have them magically appear. Grownups know they have to pay for the things they want. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-partiers-waffle-over-cutting-defense-budget/569198.md?page=2)