# Tea partiers waffle over cutting defense budget **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 27, 2011, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-partiers-waffle-over-cutting-defense-budget/569198 "2011-01-27T16:55:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-partiers-waffle-over-cutting-defense-budget/569198/41 "2011-01-28T13:37:53Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > I don’t like the Tea Partiers. I don’t like defending them. I don’t want to be associated with them. But I can’t see that much of their rhetoric is any more coherent or intelligent than what the OP in this thread has offered up. I’ll definitely go along with that. Even if what you actually meant to say was “any **less** coherent or intelligent”. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-partiers-waffle-over-cutting-defense-budget/569198/42 "2011-01-28T13:40:24Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Create a Blue Ribbon taskforce that engages in an audit of federal agencies and programs, assessing their Constitutionality, and identifying duplication, waste, ineffectiveness, and agencies and programs better left for the states or local authorities. I can think of one program they could cut for wastefulness right off the bat. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-partiers-waffle-over-cutting-defense-budget/569198/43 "2011-01-28T14:22:29Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I can think of one program they could cut for wastefulness right off the bat. But it has a Blue Ribbon! And that’s one of the colors in Red, White and Blue!! Why do you hate America? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-partiers-waffle-over-cutting-defense-budget/569198/44 "2011-01-28T14:50:36Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > ETA: If you really want to hold the Tea Partiers to an agenda, the closest thing they have to one is [The Contract From America.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract_from_America): > > Nothing in there about defense. Nothing. As for dealing with the deficit, they’ve committed to “begin the process” of passing a constitutional amendment to balance the budget. That’s a pretty soft goal-- beginning the process. Mace, for God’s sake that’s bullshit and you’re grown up enough to know it. I’m no knee jerk lefty (or anything, for that matter) but I have the experience and the balls to call a hypocrite a hypocrite. And that’s what we see here, predictable as day. Any candidate, from either side, who campaigns on spending reductions or deficit control or balanced budget or debt reduction and then later backpedals on defense or entitlements deserve the term ‘waffler’ or ‘hypocrite’ or even ‘opportunist’. It’s insincerity or naivete to think that those budgetary goals can be achieved without taking a damn axe to all elements of the federal government. In fact, that’s likely what’s going to be required to control spending and get it though both houses (if anything can): across the board cuts in all spending categories. Anything else will avoid the ‘shared pain’ argument that will make such a bill palatable to the general electorate. Honestly, the Tea Party folks who are facing this are running into one of the oldest political realities in the world: _it is easier to oppose than to govern_. Combine that with the first political adage I learned in poli-sci: _the first goal of an elected official is his or her reelection_ and you get a recipe for backpedaling, or waffling if you will, from anyone who is serious about staying in congress. Frankly, any of them who DIDN’T go into this knowing these decisions were coming were unready for prime time and don’t deserve the offices they now hold. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-partiers-waffle-over-cutting-defense-budget/569198/45 "2011-01-28T15:05:06Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > I hear they also get defensive over cutting the waffle budget. But they do it with a syrupy southern accent. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-partiers-waffle-over-cutting-defense-budget/569198/46 "2011-01-28T15:10:20Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > …As much as I hate the idea that you have to be a lawyer to be elected to higher office, we’ve put together a freshman class in congress populated by used car hucksters, pizzeria owners and opthalmologists, and the new GOP leadership is full of big hair marketing consultants like that smirking frat boy who gave the official SOTU response, and it’s very clear that many of them (even with multiple terms in the house under their belts) don’t really understand the fundamentals of how the U.S. government operates. Reminds me of this [Ben Sargent cartoon](http://www.gocomics.com/bensargent/2010/11/11/). The guy on the left is Rick Perry, mentioned as a Republican presidential candidate; of course, he’d have to forget that secession & “gov’mint is evil” talk. And he got that degree at Texas A&M! Hey, this just in from [Governor Good Hair](http://www.burntorangereport.com/diary/11052/governor-rick-perry-urges-republican-voters-to-abandon-public-schools): > [@](#): > > Rick Perry prevailed upon Republicans to withdraw their children from the state’s elementary and secondary public schools while giving a keynote address to a group of Texas conservative business leaders at a recent U.S. Chamber of Commerce luncheon in Houston. > > While reluctantly admitting that Texas faces fiscal challenges the Governor refused to acknowledge a $30 billion deficit. It seems that Texas does not do shortfalls much less deficits. But Mr. Perry did concede that the budget was such that school funding would be deeply cut. The Governor assured those present that the solution to the school budget crunch is the creation of more affordable private Christian elementary and secondary schools. > > > [@](#): > > > > Now I know most of you present here have already enrolled your children in some of our state’s finest private schools. But I want to make private schools more accessible to Republican Christian families that cannot afford to pay high tuition and for those who cannot home school their children. In a city like Houston private school tuition can cost between $10,000 to $25,000 per year per child… > > > > Well, there is a lot of fat to cut from our public schools, especially those in our biggest urban areas like Houston and Dallas. I am concerned that some the highly diverse Magnet public schools in this city are becoming hotbeds for liberalism. Do we really need free school bus service, Black History Month, Hispanic Heritage Month, Asian-Pacific Heritage Month, ESL, special needs and enrichment programs like music, art or math Olympiad? I think we should get back to the basics of the three Rs, reading writing and arithmetic. I mean when is the last time a 6th grade science fair project yielded a cure for a disease? Sorry if this is drifting off topic of defense spending. But it definitely belongs in The Pit! ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-partiers-waffle-over-cutting-defense-budget/569198/47 "2011-01-28T15:12:50Z")
**A [del]Disingenuous[/del] Clever Ruse:** [Senate Tea Party Caucus holds first meeting without some who had embraced banner](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/27/AR2011012706966.html?hpid=topnews) > [@](#): > > “I sprang from the tea party and have great respect for what it represents,” said Sen. Ronald H. Johnson (R-Wis.), a polyester and plastics manufacturer who… > > The decisions of Johnson and Sens. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) and Patrick J. Toomey (R-Pa.) not to join the Tea Party Caucus… . ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-partiers-waffle-over-cutting-defense-budget/569198/48 "2011-01-28T16:11:01Z")
It’s clear to me that Tea Partiers and other conservatives are people with loads of aggression and beefing up the military is one way of expressing that aggression. They don’t really care about the deficit, that’s just a battlefront from which they can attack people who they consider their enemies. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-partiers-waffle-over-cutting-defense-budget/569198/49 "2011-01-28T16:15:06Z")
[QUOTE=Governor Goodhair] But I want to make private schools more accessible to Republican Christian families that cannot afford to pay high tuition [/QUOTE] Bah. If they cannot afford to pay high tuition, let them drop dead and decrease the surplus population. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-partiers-waffle-over-cutting-defense-budget/569198/50 "2011-01-28T16:20:55Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Sorry if this is drifting off topic of defense spending. But it definitely belongs in The Pit! That _has_ to be a joke, right? There’s no way he actually said all that. > [@Squink](#): > > **A [del]Disingenuous[/del] Clever Ruse:** > > [Senate Tea Party Caucus holds first meeting without some who had embraced banner](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/27/AR2011012706966.html?hpid=topnews) That’s a bit unfair. Rubio is very much an establishment Republican; before he was a Senator, he was the Speaker of the Florida House. And his argument that a Tea Party Caucus is pretty much the opposite of the point of a the Tea Party (such as it may be said to have one) is a good one. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-partiers-waffle-over-cutting-defense-budget/569198/51 "2011-01-28T16:43:35Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > That’s a bit unfair. Rubio… I am crying the worlds tinest river. [Fairness matters not a whit to these conservative opportunists](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Virtue_of_Selfishness). ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-partiers-waffle-over-cutting-defense-budget/569198/52 "2011-01-28T17:23:53Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > …he’d have to forget that secession & “gov’mint is evil” talk. And he got that degree at Texas A&M!.. Perry is an Aggie? ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-partiers-waffle-over-cutting-defense-budget/569198/53 "2011-01-28T17:26:57Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > That _has_ to be a joke, right? There’s no way he actually said all that. Yeah, I was going to say, are you sure that’s not an Onion story? Not that the notion of Perry saying this is outside the realm of possibility, but that’s pretty outrageous even for him. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-partiers-waffle-over-cutting-defense-budget/569198/54 "2011-01-28T17:32:16Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > Yeah, I was going to say, are you sure that’s not an Onion story? It’s not from the Onion, but it is a joke story. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-partiers-waffle-over-cutting-defense-budget/569198/55 "2011-01-28T19:03:33Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Gee, I don’t know. How about comparing what any given individual said during his or her campaign against what they say once they are in Congress? Or would that be too much work? Not too much work, but it’s not really the topic of this thread. This about the Tea Party as a whole. Under out political system, people join together to have a louder voice and more influence than they can as individuals. Everyone seems to agree that the Tea Party influenced the results of the last election. So how do we evaluate them? Who are their spokesmen, what are their priorities, and how fervently do they stand by those priorities? Let them nail their colors to the mast. If this isn’t waffling now, it’s only because they’ve been too gutless to say anything they could be held to account for. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-partiers-waffle-over-cutting-defense-budget/569198/56 "2011-01-28T19:17:13Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Perry is an Aggie? Yup, he was a yell leader. And I was fooled by the article, which _now_ has a note saying “(A nice bit of snark & satire for your Friday… - promoted by Phillip Martin)” The thing is–it’s not hard to imagine Perry saying all that stuff. Just probably not in public. And the links in the piece are all true! Published by the [Burnt Orange Report](http://www.burntorangereport.com/). A bunch of liberal Teasips eager to roast Aggie fools… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-partiers-waffle-over-cutting-defense-budget/569198/57 "2011-01-28T19:56:59Z")
I have no doubt that he had splendid marks in Animal Husbandry. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-partiers-waffle-over-cutting-defense-budget/569198/58 "2011-01-28T21:07:38Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Not too much work, but it’s not really the topic of this thread. This about the Tea Party as a whole. Under out political system, people join together to have a louder voice and more influence than they can as individuals. Everyone seems to agree that the Tea Party influenced the results of the last election. So how do we evaluate them? Who are their spokesmen, what are their priorities, and how fervently do they stand by those priorities? Let them nail their colors to the mast. > > If this isn’t waffling now, it’s only because they’ve been too gutless to say anything they could be held to account for. Well, one of the biggest things they wanted to do was vote to overturn HCR, and they already did that. Otherwise, though, it’s not like they’re a regular political party with leaders and spokesmen. They just aren’t. As for their priorities, I already linked to the Contract From America. If want to grade them against anything, grade them against that. But grading them against something that it’s unclear is a priority for them is just ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-partiers-waffle-over-cutting-defense-budget/569198/59 "2011-01-28T21:14:08Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I have no doubt that he had splendid marks in Animal Husbandry. I’m sure there’s a joke about horses’ asses somewhere in there, but I can’t quite figure it out. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-partiers-waffle-over-cutting-defense-budget/569198/60 "2011-01-28T23:25:35Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Well, one of the biggest things they wanted to do was vote to overturn HCR, and they already did that. Otherwise, though, it’s not like they’re a regular political party with leaders and spokesmen. They just aren’t. I thought their biggest priority as a group was to lower the deficit. Or to lower taxes (I’ve seen references that TEA stands for “taxed enough already”). I’m sure there’s some overlap with the anti-government-health-care folks, but was that central to the Tea Partiers? The CBO says that law will lower the deficit, which seems in conflict with their other goals. Maybe that’s their defense against charges of waffling; their positions are so contradictory that no matter what happens, they can dig up a cite of someone who was for it all along. Or as I said before, they want all the power of being a party with none of the accountability. That makes them gutless. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-partiers-waffle-over-cutting-defense-budget/569198.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-partiers-waffle-over-cutting-defense-budget/569198.md?page=4)