# Tea Party group skips out on $500,000 bill at Vegas hotel **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 20, 2011, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-group-skips-out-on-500-000-bill-at-vegas-hotel/589743 "2011-07-20T18:50:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-group-skips-out-on-500-000-bill-at-vegas-hotel/589743/21 "2011-07-20T21:17:58Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Yes, I read that. But my BS monitor is still pinging a bit. Seems like there would be a LOT of similar defaults if this is S.O.P. in the hotel industry. I’m not ready to buy the hotel’s side of this story. I have no particular reason to believe them, or to think it was S.O.P., but the cite states that copies of the contract and cancellation agreement were filed along with the lawsuit. That would imply “signed and agreed to” copies of the contracts, although it doesn’t spell that out. I can only find the same copy of this one newswire story on various websites at the moment. Maybe in time some more details will emerge. ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-group-skips-out-on-500-000-bill-at-vegas-hotel/589743/22 "2011-07-20T21:19:07Z")
Maybe the group’s just following the mess-iah’s advice from February last. “When times are tough, you tighten your belts. You don’t blow a bunch of cash on Vegas” ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-group-skips-out-on-500-000-bill-at-vegas-hotel/589743/23 "2011-07-20T21:23:14Z")
> [@JohnBckWLD](#): > > Maybe the group’s just following the mess-iah’s advice from February last. “When times are tough, you tighten your belts. You don’t blow a bunch of cash on Vegas” Then why book in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-group-skips-out-on-500-000-bill-at-vegas-hotel/589743/24 "2011-07-20T22:45:56Z")
It is possible the contract was approved by a hotel manager\former tea party group member who is now collecting unemployment checks. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-group-skips-out-on-500-000-bill-at-vegas-hotel/589743/25 "2011-07-20T22:46:07Z")
Hard to figure, from the Vegas end. I mean, a crowd of Teapers? Tighty rightys stuffed full of moral rectitude, no way they spend a nickel in the casino! And the hookers would fucking starve! ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-group-skips-out-on-500-000-bill-at-vegas-hotel/589743/26 "2011-07-20T22:53:32Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Hard to figure, from the Vegas end. I mean, a crowd of Teapers? Tighty rightys stuffed full of moral rectitude, no way they spend a nickel in the casino! And the hookers would fucking starve! Well, the female hookers, anyways. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-group-skips-out-on-500-000-bill-at-vegas-hotel/589743/27 "2011-07-20T23:37:31Z")
I would think an event like this pays for itself from fees people pay to attend the conference. If so, I imagine the group can only put up so much money as a deposit before it collects fees form the attendees. ---
**Author:** ![Chicagojeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@Chicagojeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chicagojeff)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-group-skips-out-on-500-000-bill-at-vegas-hotel/589743/28 "2011-07-21T02:54:54Z")
Well one thing we know is is that Clarke County doesn’t fuck around. If you need proof ask Paris Hilton… Oj Simpson… and former NBA player Antoine Walker. Vegas is the one place where they damn near have debtors prison. Snark… if they really want to bring things back to the way they use to be… running out on a bill in Vegas use to get you a helluva lot worse than a summons to court… lol ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-group-skips-out-on-500-000-bill-at-vegas-hotel/589743/29 "2011-07-21T02:56:57Z")
“Nice legs, Ms Bachman. Be a shame if something were to, you know, _happen_ to them…” ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-group-skips-out-on-500-000-bill-at-vegas-hotel/589743/30 "2011-07-21T03:03:33Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Meeting space usually comes free with such a large block of rooms. For anyone reading this thread, please know that the above statement is not in any way true. Not sure how Voyager got that impression. ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-group-skips-out-on-500-000-bill-at-vegas-hotel/589743/31 "2011-07-21T03:04:26Z")
> [@Chicagojeff](#): > > Well one thing we know is is that Clarke County doesn’t fuck around. If you need proof ask Paris Hilton.. Oj Simpson.. and former NBA player Antoine Walker. > Vegas is the one place where they damn near have debtors prison. > > Snark.. if they really want to bring things back to the way they use to be.. running out on a bill in Vegas use to get you a helluva lot worse than a summons to court.. lol Love it! Words of a true Chicagoan. Take it to its extreme: First female President takes the oath of office while in traction. Both elbows and knees will never function again but she insists that will not get in the way of her will to serve her homosexual husband. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-group-skips-out-on-500-000-bill-at-vegas-hotel/589743/32 "2011-07-21T03:33:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Voyager > Meeting space usually comes free with such a large block of rooms. > [@Mosier](#): > > For anyone reading this thread, please know that the above statement is not in any way true. Not sure how Voyager got that impression. For anyone else reading this thread, please note that I just finished working with a conference where we did indeed get our meeting space comped because our group managed to book a large block of rooms. Indeed, this was written into the contract at 50% discount on meeting rooms if we booked XX number of room nights, 75% at XX + Y and 100% at XX + Y + Z room nights. So I guess Voyager got that impression because sometimes it is true. ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-group-skips-out-on-500-000-bill-at-vegas-hotel/589743/33 "2011-07-21T03:53:12Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > For anyone else reading this thread, please note that I just finished working with a conference where we did indeed get our meeting space comped because our group managed to book a large block of rooms. Indeed, this was written into the contract at 50% discount on meeting rooms if we booked XX number of room nights, 75% at XX + Y and 100% at XX + Y + Z room nights. > > So I guess Voyager got that impression because sometimes it is true. Just in case people don’t get it, meeting space is often comped. That’s standard procedure. The planner contacts the hotel, says they need x-many rooms and asks for a conference room during certain hours. Of course food and coffee breaks have to be catered in but that makes it all the more attractive for the hotel. That’s the way the industry works. If you are planning a wedding and will book a significant number of rooms on a downtime weekend the hotel will give you the ballroom at no extra cost. That’s just good business. There is nothing underhanded or secret about it. That’s the way the hotel business works. Guarantee them a certain amount of up front revenue and they will provide the extras. No harm in that. Try to screw them and they can get very nasty, particularly in Vegas where they have seen every scam. This ain’t rocket surgery. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-group-skips-out-on-500-000-bill-at-vegas-hotel/589743/34 "2011-07-21T04:37:59Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Hotel reservations for large parties are always negotiated. It is quite possible, especially when you are dealing with a city with lots of vacancies, to reduce the guarantee and have a relatively low penalty for canceling early. That’s a whopping big penalty for really not that many room nights. My guess is that the nitwits who arranged this did not use a competent meeting planner, but assumed they were so smart they can do it themselves (typical of them, isn’t it?) and got walked over by the hotel. You aren’t seeing the world the way a Tea Partier does. The hotel is one of those most noble and beneficial institutions; a for-profit business struggling under the oppressive burdens placed on it by the government. With that in mind, I can see the convention driving a hard bargain to negotiate the rates upward. ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-group-skips-out-on-500-000-bill-at-vegas-hotel/589743/35 "2011-07-21T05:16:10Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > You aren’t seeing the world the way a Tea Partier does. The hotel is one of those most noble and beneficial institutions; a for-profit business struggling under the oppressive burdens placed on it by the government. With that in mind, I can see the convention driving a hard bargain to negotiate the rates upward. Love it! But the caveat is that no matter what it costs there can be no union employees. They will pay extra as long a there are no unions. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-group-skips-out-on-500-000-bill-at-vegas-hotel/589743/36 "2011-07-21T05:41:07Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Yes, I read that. But my BS monitor is still pinging a bit. Seems like there would be a LOT of similar defaults if this is S.O.P. in the hotel industry. I’m not ready to buy the hotel’s side of this story. My own knowledge is admittedly not extensive, but i’ve heard of a very similar incident in my own field. Each year, the American Historical Association holds an annual meeting that attracts professional historians from all over the US and the world. The locations of these meetings are generally decided years in advance (as of this moment, host cities have been decided up to the 2015 meeting), and the Association enters into agreements with hotels to house the thousands of people who attend. The 2010 meeting was in San Diego, and one of the hotels booked for the meeting was the Manchester Grand Hyatt. During the 2008 election cycle, the owner of the hotel, Douglas Manchester, was a big supporter—moral and financial—of Proposition 8 in California. There were many members of the AHA, as well as union groups such as San Diego Unite here Local 30, who thought that the Association should cancel its contract with Manchester’s hotel as a protest against his politics. While there were a number of factors at play in the AHA’s decision not to undertake such a boycott, one important reason was that the Association would have been on the hook for over half a million dollars if it had cancelled. Here’s a section from the AHA’s [official announcement](http://www.historians.org/members/emails/2009/September/SanDiegoStatement.cfm): > [@](#): > > Unite Here’s letter refers to the “possible cancellation fee” AHA would have paid had the Council voted to withdraw from the Hyatt. There is nothing theoretical about this fee. Had we cancelled, AHA would have been contractually obliged to pay $611,000, thus enriching the person Unite Here supposedly seeks to punish, the owner of the Manchester Hyatt, Doug Manchester. Beyond the cancellation fee, the AHA would also lose at least $180,000 in special concessions negotiated into the existing contract agreement when it was signed in 2003. > > The Business Meeting and the Council decided in a democratic process that AHA would not break its contract, and thus forfeit nearly $800,000 of Association resources to protest a political action taken by one person. In cases like this, the contracting entity often doesn’t have to put up a lot of money at the beginning. In this case, for example, the AHA itself didn’t pay anywhere near $800,000 to the hotel. But what happens is that the contract for the meeting causes the hotel to put aside large blocks of rooms at reduced rates (and, from experience, i can tell you that the rates negotiated by the AHA are considerably reduced) in the expectation of getting a guaranteed influx of customers who will not only pay for their rooms but will, in many cases, use the hotel’s bars, restaurants, room service, etc. It is this expected income that is the basis for the large cancellation fees. ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-group-skips-out-on-500-000-bill-at-vegas-hotel/589743/37 "2011-07-21T06:11:26Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > My own knowledge is admittedly not extensive, but i’ve heard of a very similar incident in my own field. > > Each year, the American Historical Association holds an annual meeting that attracts professional historians from all over the US and the world. The locations of these meetings are generally decided years in advance (as of this moment, host cities have been decided up to the 2015 meeting), and the Association enters into agreements with hotels to house the thousands of people who attend. > > The 2010 meeting was in San Diego, and one of the hotels booked for the meeting was the Manchester Grand Hyatt. During the 2008 election cycle, the owner of the hotel, Douglas Manchester, was a big supporter—moral and financial—of Proposition 8 in California. There were many members of the AHA, as well as union groups such as San Diego Unite here Local 30, who thought that the Association should cancel its contract with Manchester’s hotel as a protest against his politics. > > While there were a number of factors at play in the AHA’s decision not to undertake such a boycott, one important reason was that the Association would have been on the hook for over half a million dollars if it had cancelled. Here’s a section from the AHA’s [official announcement](http://www.historians.org/members/emails/2009/September/SanDiegoStatement.cfm):In cases like this, the contracting entity often doesn’t have to put up a lot of money at the beginning. In this case, for example, the AHA itself didn’t pay anywhere near $800,000 to the hotel. But what happens is that the contract for the meeting causes the hotel to put aside large blocks of rooms at reduced rates (and, from experience, i can tell you that the rates negotiated by the AHA are considerably reduced) in the expectation of getting a guaranteed influx of customers who will not only pay for their rooms but will, in many cases, use the hotel’s bars, restaurants, room service, etc. It is this expected income that is the basis for the large cancellation fees. The other thing is that the institution (for profit or non-profit) that books the convention gets a kickback from the hotel association. They steer people to hotels that are part of the package and then a percentage gets kicked back to them. It may look like they are providing a favorable rate, that is less than the “rack rate”, but in fact all parties are in on the scam. If you want to go to a convention in a major city you will probably be better off if you call the hotel directly, say you are not part of the convention and they will discount your room according to the amount they are kicking back to the convention organizers. Yea, it’s sleazy but that’s business. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-group-skips-out-on-500-000-bill-at-vegas-hotel/589743/38 "2011-07-21T07:26:20Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > For anyone reading this thread, please know that the above statement is not in any way true. Not sure how Voyager got that impression. I got that impression from being on the steering committee of a major IEEE conference. While I don’t negotiate hotel contracts, I certainly hear about them. Now, we also book ballroom space for exhibits, but we never pay for meeting rooms. We also are continuously negotiating room block minimums, which you of course want to keep as small as possible. We have the extra advantage of being under the IEEE umbrella, and since IEEE does lots of meeting business with hotel chains, we have more clout than the random Tea Party group. If you know anything about meetings, you know that everything is negotiable. My guess is that these clowns felt good about highballing the room night estimate with the hotel, not realizing the danger they were in, and that they didn’t exactly negotiate well. Now obviously if you are just booking a meeting room for a local meeting which is not getting the hotel any rooms sold, you pay. I’m talking about a meeting involving booking a good chunk of a hotel. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-group-skips-out-on-500-000-bill-at-vegas-hotel/589743/39 "2011-07-21T07:28:29Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > You aren’t seeing the world the way a Tea Partier does. The hotel is one of those most noble and beneficial institutions; a for-profit business struggling under the oppressive burdens placed on it by the government. With that in mind, I can see the convention driving a hard bargain to negotiate the rates upward. 😃 They should be happy to pay the $500K - the market has spoken. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-group-skips-out-on-500-000-bill-at-vegas-hotel/589743/40 "2011-07-21T07:34:15Z")
> [@R.P.McMurphy](#): > > The other thing is that the institution (for profit or non-profit) that books the convention gets a kickback from the hotel association. They steer people to hotels that are part of the package and then a percentage gets kicked back to them. It may look like they are providing a favorable rate, that is less than the “rack rate”, but in fact all parties are in on the scam. If you want to go to a convention in a major city you will probably be better off if you call the hotel directly, say you are not part of the convention and they will discount your room according to the amount they are kicking back to the convention organizers. Yea, it’s sleazy but that’s business. You need to tell me the hotels you deal with. 🙂 Actually, it seems to be common that you get a discount on city owned exhibit hall space if you hit room night numbers for surrounding hotels, and also from catering amounts. Since lots of companies these days insist on booking through their travel agency, not the conference, we have our housing people circulate attendee lists to local hotels which match them against their guest list so we get credit. I think you can tell someone who has done this by their thinking the most expensive Starbucks coffee is dirt cheap when compared to the cost on hotel or conference center catering menus. I nearly fell over the first time I saw one - “you mean they charge that much per piece!” Anyhow, thanks for the support, and perhaps **Mosier** ’s meeting is getting ripped off. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-group-skips-out-on-500-000-bill-at-vegas-hotel/589743.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-group-skips-out-on-500-000-bill-at-vegas-hotel/589743.md?page=3)