# Tea Party = treason **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 30, 2011, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-treason/590861 "2011-07-30T21:09:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-treason/590861/101 "2011-07-31T14:20:02Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > If Americans being dumb is treason, you may as well cancel the whole country. A pretty crude and ignorant statement there. :rolleyes: > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The Democrats have been willing to act like responsible grown-ups. And so have many Republicans. But the Tea-Party is acting like a bunch of whiny adolescents. What hasn’t happened yet, and which is what needs to, is for the Responsible Adult Caucus that still forms a strong majority to work out a deal themselves, leaving the Whiny Brat Caucus out of it. Nothing is going to pass a Dem-controlled Senate and a Dem President without Dem support being enlisted first. If that tears the GOP apart along the way, or even costs Boehner the nominal GOP leadership, well, that’s what choosing a public service career sometimes requires. “Country First”, as their last presidential nominee used to claim. OK, maybe give them a cookie to shut them up. Agree to having a free-standing debate and vote in both houses on a balance budget amendment, by itself. Some good might even come of that. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-treason/590861/102 "2011-07-31T14:55:54Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > OK, maybe give them a cookie to shut them up. Agree to having a free-standing debate and vote in both houses on a balance budget amendment, by itself. Some good might even come of that. I predict that this will likely be the compromise: Reid’s plan is modified for more cuts. I believe he current has $2.7 trillion (including the phantom war cuts). I think he ups that to $3.5 trillion and gets a deal that increases the debt ceiling past election day. Further, it is agreed that an up or down vote (no guarantee of passage) is held on the BBA. It passes the Senate with a few Republicans in support (the ones that aren’t standing for reelection in 2012) and passes the House with a weird coalition of Dems and non-TP Republicans. Boehner loses his speakership. You heard it here first! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-treason/590861/103 "2011-07-31T15:20:05Z")
Losing Boehner as Speaker would not be helpful if it means Cantor gets the job instead. He’s the biggest single part of the problem right now. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-treason/590861/104 "2011-07-31T16:04:14Z")
Looks like the deal that we’ll end up with will involve forming a committee to address the deficit problem in the future. Didn’t we just do that last year? I don’t see how this whole fiasco is going to benefit the Republicans politically. I know they think it will (or at least the Tea Partiers do), but the non-TPers are going to have some 'splaining to do before the next election. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-treason/590861/105 "2011-07-31T17:01:59Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The FBI infiltrated and broke up the Ku Klux Klan. That’s a large right-wing extremist group. No, the FBI infiltrated a series of _ongoing criminal conspiracies_. That’s what they’re there for. It was simply happenstance that the various Klan groups were based around a right-wing ideology. Anyway, it wasn’t the FBI that “broke up” the Klan. It was the Southern Poverty Law Center. In any event, the Klan is hardly a right wing analogue of the ACLU, is it? ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-treason/590861/106 "2011-07-31T17:34:30Z")
For that matter, it’s not like the Klan has ceased to function since it was “broken up”. David Duke (former Klan Wizard, felon, and Republican Louisiana state rep) claims that Tea Partiers are begging him to run, and he’s thinking about it, even though his felony conviction makes him ineligible. (I’m linking to Wiki, because I don’t want to link to Duke’s site directly, but the direct links are there on wiki, if anyone wants to pursue them.) > **[David Duke](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Duke#Possible_2012_presidential_campaign)** > > David Ernest Duke (born July 1, 1950) is an American politician, author, white supremacist, antisemitic conspiracy theorist, and former Grand Wizard of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. From 1989 to 1992, he was a member of the Louisiana House of Representatives for the Republican Party. His politics and writings are largely devoted to promoting conspiracy theories about Jews, such as Holocaust denial and Jewish control of academia, the press, and the financial system. In 2013, the Anti-D Duke ... ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-treason/590861/107 "2011-07-31T18:36:55Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > For that matter, it’s not like the Klan has ceased to function since it was “broken up”. They pretty much just hung up the robes and changed their name to Council of Conservative Citizens. Trent Lott (Republican Senate leader until pretty recently) is one of their supporters. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-treason/590861/108 "2011-07-31T18:52:52Z")
Heh. The whole robes-n-wizards thing is so lame, it doesn’t surprise me that they’d rather just wear their Brooks Brothers instead. The wiki article I linked above says that the current Klan functions mostly as small groups, now which makes it harder to infiltrate. It also says that the Klan in general is more or less merging with the Neo-Nazi organizations. Stormfront was started by David Duke’s ex wife (and some other guy, whose name escapes me) and Duke posts there often. As for Lott - he was hounded out of office for telling former segregationist congressman Strom Thurmond that life would have been better if he (Strom) had been president. It’s was Strom’s 173rd birthday party, iirc, and I always sort of thought that the reaction to the remark was a bit overblown. I didn’t regret the results, of course. Still, it doesn’t surprise me that Lott’s a fan of the Council of Conservative Citizens. Here’s a wiki like to the CCC, in case anyone’s wondering if they’re really anything like the KKK or if Elvis is just joking (spoiler: Elvis is not joking). > **[Council of Conservative Citizens](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Conservative_Citizens)** > > The Council of Conservative Citizens (CofCC or CCC) is an American white supremacist organization. Founded in 1985, it advocates white nationalism, and supports some paleoconservative causes. In the organization's statement of principles, it states that they "oppose all efforts to mix the races of mankind". > Headquartered in Potosi, Missouri, as of 2015, the group's president is Earl Holt; Jared Taylor is the group's spokesman, and Paul Fromm is its international director. > The CofCC traces it... ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-treason/590861/109 "2011-07-31T18:56:57Z")
Even 50 years ago it was misleading to talk about the Klan. Since the [Oberholtzer affair](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madge_Oberholtzer) the Klan has been a bunch of loosely affiliated but independent groups, rather than one big one. The good thing about today’s stealth Klan is that they don’t kill lots of black people, and go to prison when they do. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-treason/590861/110 "2011-07-31T19:00:56Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > I always sort of thought that the reaction to the remark was a bit overblown. I thought it was a make-up call. The Beltway Village media had known about Lott for a long time, but had failed to follow through with their professional responsibilities _and knew it_. Then the Thurmond incident gave them the opening to correct their failure. The reaction wasn’t to the remark itself, but to Lott’s (and by extension that of the party which made him one of its leaders) embrace of bigotry, and if seen in that light was both seriously belated and still seriously underblown. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-treason/590861/111 "2011-07-31T20:51:21Z")
So, what does the Klan have to do with the Tea Party’s attack on the US economy again? Seems like quite the hijack to me. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-treason/590861/112 "2011-07-31T20:55:53Z")
Still waiting for the OP to return and defend his thesis, but I’m not holding my breath. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-treason/590861/113 "2011-07-31T21:03:32Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > So, what does the Klan have to do with the Tea Party’s attack on the US economy again? Seems like quite the hijack to me. Der Trihs claimed that the American government only went after left-wing groups and left right-wing groups alone. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-treason/590861/114 "2011-08-01T00:41:37Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > So, there’s two things I’d like to comment on. Firstly, the debt ceiling is going to be raised. Obama is currently saying there is an agreement in a press conference. > [@](#): > > Looks like the deal that we’ll end up with will involve forming a committee to address the deficit problem in the future. Didn’t we just do that last year? And there is going to be another committee. Yippee!!! ---
**Author:** ![SherwoodAnderson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@SherwoodAnderson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SherwoodAnderson)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-treason/590861/115 "2011-08-01T01:04:57Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > And there is going to be another committee. Yippee!!! Because congressional republicans walked away from negotiations on a Grand Bargain on account of them all having signed pledges never to raise taxes on the rich, lest we forget. The committee form is to accomodate those who’ve pledged fealty to Grover Norquist - by not increasing revenues upfront. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-treason/590861/116 "2011-08-01T01:09:22Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Der Trihs claimed that the American government only went after left-wing groups and left right-wing groups alone. No, I said they “bent over backwards to ignore the transgressions of right wing groups”. They go after right wing groups when they make too much of a violent spectacle of themselves to ignore. While, again, constantly spying on and harassing “left wing” organizations like the ACLU regardless of how law abiding they are. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-treason/590861/117 "2011-08-01T01:19:07Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > I’ll try to keep this post within the bounds of GD. > > Calling people who oppose one politically “traitors” is a action of both ignorance and maliciousness. I don’t care if it comes from the right or the left; it’s wrong. > > Aaron Burr was a traitor, Ezra Pound was a traitor, Aldrich Ames was a traitor. > > Those who fight for what they believe is best for the country are not traitors. They may be wrong, misguided, and stupid, but they are not traitors. > > It’s despicable to call one’s political opponents traitors simply because they disagree on what is best for the country. People who do so should be ashamed of themselves. +1 Well said, Frank. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-treason/590861/118 "2011-08-01T01:38:58Z")
> [@SherwoodAnderson](#): > > Because congressional republicans walked away from negotiations on a Grand Bargain on account of them all having signed pledges never to raise taxes on the rich, lest we forget. The committee form is to accomodate those who’ve pledged fealty to Grover Norquist - by not increasing revenues upfront. Which is exactly why the whole “pledge” thing is nuts. To be elected to a lawmaking body MEANS that your\*\* job\*\* is to _compromise_, every day, all day long. (Any job, really, is about this, in one way or another..but for a legislator, it’s basically the whole _job description_.) If you can’t handle that, okay…but for God’s sake don’t run for public office. ---
**Author:** ![SherwoodAnderson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@SherwoodAnderson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SherwoodAnderson)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-treason/590861/119 "2011-08-01T01:52:00Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Which is exactly why the whole “pledge” thing is nuts. To be elected to a lawmaking body MEANS that your\*\* job\*\* is to _compromise_, every day, all day long. (Any job, really, is about this, in one way or another..but for a legislator, it’s basically the whole _job description_.) If you can’t handle that, okay…but for God’s sake don’t run for public office. If you ask me it’s only the latest sign that movement conservatism is by now a bankrupt ideology that lacks solutions to real world problems and is solely chugging along on faith, good messaging and powerful institutions. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-treason/590861/120 "2011-08-01T02:00:17Z")
> [@SherwoodAnderson](#): > > If you ask me it’s only the latest sign that movement conservatism is by now a bankrupt ideology that lacks solutions to real world problems and is solely chugging along on faith, good messaging and powerful institutions. These pledge things are indeed supremely counterproductive. Everything needs to be on the table all the time if you are going to be effective. It’s one thing to hold that low taxes are the key to economic growth, but it’s another thing entirely to bind your hands and close your eyes regardless of what might happen in the future. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-treason/590861.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-treason/590861.md?page=7)