If Obama gives in, the Tea Party will do it again in six months.
Are you under the opinion that we should capitulate to people who hold hostages? Obama signing the bill is paying the ransom. Why on Earth is that a good idea?
I don’t think the Tea Party are traitors, well some of them are, but by and large no. They are however delusional, misinformed and angry. And their are creating a situation where they are threatening to destabilize the world economy. The Democrats aren’t doing that. Obama isn’t doing that. The Tea Party are specifically creating the threat. They are basically acting like Cobra Commander, and the sniveling pieces of shit in the Republican House, not the Tea Partiers, but the other, sane Republicans (to the extent that they exist) are cowards for not standing up to them.
Come on. You are on the SDMB. Anything short of Communist State Central control of the economy is considered radical right wing. Surely talk of a balanced budget and government control of spending is at minimum treasonous, if not worthy of summary execution without trial.
tomndebb, given the thread title this focus on the fairness of the HS wife alledging “treason” is understandable and low hanging fruit. I would submit though the the rest of his post - the part about subversion of the political process to jackboot consideration of an amendment to the US constitution is a very real IRL concern and of far greater consequence than the “treason” charge.
First, “meaning well” doesn’t make you not a traitor. Someone working as a mole in the US government and giving secrets to the USSR because he considers Communism superior would have been both well meaning and a traitor. Second, I see no reason to consider these people well meaning in the slightest. They don’t care about anyone but themselves; they are ideologically committed to not caring about anyone besides themselves - caring about others is Evil Socialism. And they’ve demonstrated quite clearly that they don’t care and are not well meaning in any way.
So you are okay with one tenth of the congress threatening to destroy the US economy unless they get a constitutional amendment (that could never get through under normal means, because it’s a stupid idea) through the house and senate in two days?
Is there anything a right-leaning group could do that would be evil enough for you to be upset about? If the Democrats were doing this I’d be shouting at them. Of course, the Democrats don’t generally do evil stuff like this.
The amendment would put in place a permanent requirement for supermajorities for all legislation that raises taxes. That’s unprecedented in the history of the nation and in fact “radical right wing”, as you put it.
It’s called divided government. Both parties do it when they can. You are simply objecting to the scale this time. The thing is, it’s the GOP (or a subset of them) shooting themselves in the foot yet again. They tried to do this to Clinton, and it backfired.
Can you name which ones who are traitors, and what acts of treason they have committed?
The problem here is that the entire situation is artificial. There’s no reason for us to go into default. We have a system to deal with the budget. You don’t bypass the system by threatening to cause additional, unnecessary damage unless your demands are met. It’s extortion, really.
Ah so Jane Fonda going on a propaganda trip to Hanoi wasn’t treason but opposition to raising the debt ceiling is/ :rolleyes:How does this “give aid and comfort to the enemies of the United States”.
Not that I care much about such an amendment, since it would be mostly symbolic. But maybe some of these Tea Partiers feel they were elected to do things the voters want.
This is highly specious. The debt ceiling has in fact been raised ~80 times (lousy memory). Each time a “clean bill”.
Each and every time the party in control of the House could have gone for what congressional republicans went for this time. But not once has anyone opted to do that up until now. Neither democrat nor republican.
This isn’t “politics as usual”, and it’s not run-of-the-mill “divided government”.
Really? A balanced budget amendment is stupid and evil?
I’d love to see a balanced budget amendment. I guess I’m stupid and evil like that, but if I have to live that way, the government should as well. That would be your golden opportunity to get all those military spending cuts and tax increases you’ve been looking for, too. But what am I thinking? I guess I’m not, being stupid and all.
Do you think that 3/4 of the american public would want this legislation after it was debated in congress and in the media for a month or so, like the normal political process would work?
This bill is inscribing in the constitution that supermajorities are needed to raise taxes and that grand total federal spending must be lower than pre-Great Society levels. And then it’s all branded with “balanced budget amendment” and sent to Rasmussen for polling.
We dont know sh-t about what “the american public” thinks of this particular legislation because the american public hasnt had time to consider it in the way the Founders intended the legislative process to work. PPACA was debated for a year, still those very same teapartiers claimed with a straight face it was “rammed through congress”.
And the supporters of any Balanced Budget Amendment legislation (even a more reasonable one that doesnt read like Ayn Rands wish list) should try to pass it the usual way, the way the Founders intended it, the way we pass all legislation - by pitching it to the public, by getting enough supporters elected to congress, by getting a supporter elected to the White House.
Is there any reason not to do it that way? Win on the merits rather than by blackmailing the referee as it were.
Sharon Angle said we should have armed insurrection if they didn’t win at the ballot box. She’s certainly all too cowardly to actually do anything about it. I go to the Freeper site constantly and there are people who are specifically hoping that the government will collapse so that presumably in the Mad Max scenario that followed the aged, obese Freepers would go Galt and bootstrap the nation back to the country the founders wanted.
Now those aren’t exactly treasonous, mostly because those people are all talk. However the people who are working specifically to ensure that a debt ceiling upraise isn’t and never is enacted (rather than the dickweeds that are using it as a threat) are a lot closer.
Mostly I was thinking of the specific secession organizations that are around. Those guys are working to split the union, wouldn’t that count?
That’s just sophistry. Sorry, man, but what else can I say.
Do you concede that if shifting majorities (perfect bipartisan consensus) has opted not to do something for about a century and then someone suddenly does it - then that qualifies as “unprecedented”?
No, there’s not. But I want you to ponder this for a minute:
If a “Balanced Budget Amendment” passes through both houses of Congress, even for the sole purpose of getting this fixed, it then has to be ratified by the legislatures of a minimum of 38 states. Do you really think that a piece of garbage will be able to get that kind of support? Really?
As the obvious answer to the question is “No”, I don’t see why placating the Tea Party with an obviously flawed, hastily-written, slapdash bill is anything to worry about. Kiss their ass, get it done, and forget about it.
They way they’re going about it is evil, because they are threatening trillions of dollars and perhaps millions of lives so they can get their way. It is stupid though. You see, in the real world, sometimes you need to deficit spend. Not the way Bush did, but in an emergency. Forcing a situation where a handful of idiots (like the Tea Party caucus) can nix any spending is moronic.
We can have balanced budgets without an amendment. But having an amendment means our hands are tied in extraordinary circumstances.
You strike me more as angry and under misconceptions.
You aren’t a government. By the way, I assume you paid for your house in cash, right? Because if you didn’t, you aren’t living under a balanced budget.
Like I say, having a misunderstanding doesn’t make you stupid.