# Tea Party vs. GOP thread 2014 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 6, 2014, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-vs-gop-thread-2014/687836 "2014-05-06T20:45:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-vs-gop-thread-2014/687836/102 "2014-05-20T18:08:42Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > There’s no evidence that REpublicans want to disenfranchise legitimate voters. The key word here is “legitimate” which apparently only your side is allowed to use. Goalpost shift. Just stop already. First law when in a hole – stop digging. Nearly everything you’ve said on the subject has been proven to be false. Are you just going to continue to throw out random stuff on the off chance that something might be accurate by chance? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-vs-gop-thread-2014/687836/103 "2014-05-20T18:09:42Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > On that one I can confidently say you’re wrong. Historically, your confidence has had little to do with your accuracy. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-vs-gop-thread-2014/687836/104 "2014-05-20T18:13:51Z")
Then prove that Republicans want to disenfranchise legitimate voters and not just prevent non-legitimate voters from voting. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-vs-gop-thread-2014/687836/105 "2014-05-20T18:22:45Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Then prove that Republicans want to disenfranchise legitimate voters and not just prevent non-legitimate voters from voting. I’m not going to play along with your continuous goalpost shifting. You’ve been proven wrong; that’s enough for me, for now. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-vs-gop-thread-2014/687836/106 "2014-05-20T18:38:48Z")
The number of voters who lack ID is considerably greater than the number of vote fraud cases. This is already well-demonstrated. This means that someone who is attempting to stop people without ID from voting is attempting to stop legitimate voters from voting. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-vs-gop-thread-2014/687836/107 "2014-05-20T18:41:35Z")
That would be like saying we don;'t have a tax fraud problem because the IRS prosecutes very few cases. Therefore, we don’t actually need people to prove their income. One could also say that many more people are unregistered than those who commit registration fraud, therefore voter registration should be unnecessary since it’s an impediment to eligible voters voting. Which is true. It’s far more of an impediment to voting than any ID requirement. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-vs-gop-thread-2014/687836/108 "2014-05-20T18:47:31Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You’ve been proven wrong; that’s enough for me, for now. Such a massive amount of driving ambition will carry you far in life. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-vs-gop-thread-2014/687836/109 "2014-05-20T18:48:56Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Such a massive amount of driving ambition will carry you far in life. 😉 You gotta set realistic goals in life. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-vs-gop-thread-2014/687836/110 "2014-05-20T19:52:05Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Goalpost shift. Just stop already. First law when in a hole – stop digging. > > Nearly everything you’ve said on the subject has been proven to be false. Are you just going to continue to throw out random stuff on the off chance that something might be accurate by chance? Doesn’t he always? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-vs-gop-thread-2014/687836/111 "2014-05-20T20:06:32Z")
Hey, you guys are the one complaining about skewed elections. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-vs-gop-thread-2014/687836/112 "2014-05-21T01:17:31Z")
I firmly believe that Jeb Bush, Ted Cruz, Ron Paul, and Chris Christie get together once a year to ritually torture, kill, and then eat young African-American, Jewish, and Hispanic children while offering worship to the god of Mammon. According to **adaher** , I cannot be accused of lying. I therefore demand immediate investigation into my completely plausible\* allegations. - Again, by the adaher definition of “I believe it even without a shred of evidence or even overwhelming counter-evidence, but belief=plausibility”. So, adaher, how do you feel about supporting baby-killing, cannibalistic, idol-worshippers? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-vs-gop-thread-2014/687836/113 "2014-05-21T01:46:59Z")
Not equivalent, since there are actually examples of voter fraud, but no examples of Republicans eating children. Our dispute isn’t about whether it exists. I assume we all live in the real world. The dispute is over how significant it is, which we really can’t know without a systematic investigation. Much as we have no idea what the true extent of tax fraud is. Using the logic of, “If we don’t see it, it doesn’t exist”, that would mean that tax fraud is very rare and that people should not have to prove their income, since this is a violation of our constitutional right to privacy. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-vs-gop-thread-2014/687836/114 "2014-05-21T02:31:54Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Not equivalent, since there are actually examples of voter fraud, but no examples of Republicans eating children. > > Our dispute isn’t about whether it exists. I assume we all live in the real world. The dispute is over how significant it is, which we really can’t know without a systematic investigation. Much as we have no idea what the true extent of tax fraud is. Using the logic of, “If we don’t see it, it doesn’t exist”, that would mean that tax fraud is very rare and that people should not have to prove their income, since this is a violation of our constitutional right to privacy. Actually as recent court decisions striking down Voter ID have shown, there _have_ been systematic investigations and they couldn’t find enough to justify the law. It’s funny how the GOP is all “a few mass murders are a small price to pay for being able to masturbate all over my giant gun collection”, but “a few bad votes are enough reason to disenfranchise thousands upon thousands of legitimate\* voters”. Consistency, thy name is NOT the Republican Party. Imagine if I tried to pass a gun law that required the equivalent of Voter ID from gun purchasers. Oh wait, that’s right. You don’t have to imagine it 'cause it’s been proposed and opposed by the NRA’s political arm (the GOP). - Legitimate by the normal world definition. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-vs-gop-thread-2014/687836/115 "2014-05-21T11:28:06Z")
Bravo, Zakalwe. One of the finest posts I’ve ever read. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-vs-gop-thread-2014/687836/116 "2014-05-21T12:37:05Z")
Actually it makes my posts look good. Is Zakalwe seriously claiming that one does not need ID to exercise your 2nd amendment rights? Heck, in most cases you need ID to exercise your 1st amendment rights. Try getting into a townhall meeting without presenting ID. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-vs-gop-thread-2014/687836/117 "2014-05-21T12:50:50Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Actually it makes my posts look good. Is Zakalwe seriously claiming that one does not need ID to exercise your 2nd amendment rights? Heck, in most cases you need ID to exercise your 1st amendment rights. Try getting into a townhall meeting without presenting ID. I never tried to get into a town hall. I presume you might be checked for ID just to make sure that you reside in the district that the speaker is from, just so that non-residents don’t crowd out residents. And you can certainly post on this board and exercise your 1st amendment rights without showing ID, you don’t show ID to go into church, etc. I won’t even get started on the 2nd because I don’t recognize that these “rights” apply to individuals. ---
**Author:** ![MahFL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbce88/32.png) [@MahFL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MahFL)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-vs-gop-thread-2014/687836/118 "2014-05-21T12:51:10Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > …been systematic investigations and they couldn’t find enough to justify the law… I always say show me 10 convictions for voter fraud that actually changed the result of an election, then you can have voter id laws, but you won’t ever find those results. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-vs-gop-thread-2014/687836/119 "2014-05-21T12:53:27Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I never tried to get into a town hall. I presume you might be checked for ID just to make sure that you reside in the district that the speaker is from, just so that non-residents don’t crowd out residents. And you can certainly post on this board and exercise your 1st amendment rights without showing ID, you don’t show ID to go into church, etc. That is a very similar rationale for justifying ID for voting. Is the voting right that isn’t even specifically listed greater than 1st amendment rights, which are not only written down, but also known as our “first freedoms”? > [@](#): > > I won’t even get started on the 2nd because I don’t recognize that these “rights” apply to individuals. That’s one of the fundamental differences between right and left these days. The left simply does not acknowledge the rights written in the Constitution as absolute rights, yet rights that aren’t written down are sacrosanct. It’s as if the left has a “Shadow Constitution” which they regard as more legitimate than the actual Constitution. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-vs-gop-thread-2014/687836/120 "2014-05-21T12:55:03Z")
> [@MahFL](#): > > I always say show me 10 convictions for voter fraud that actually changed the result of an election, then you can have voter id laws, but you won’t ever find those results. Show me someone who boarded a plane under a fake ID and then did something bad. Oh wait, that never happened. Even the 9/11 hijackers showed legitimate ID. Show me someone who entered a townhall without showing ID and did something bad. That never happened either. If you can require ID for imagined problems for exercising other rights, you can do it for something that isn’t even a right. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-vs-gop-thread-2014/687836/121 "2014-05-21T12:56:00Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That’s one of the fundamental differences between right and left these days. No it’s not. > [@](#): > > The left simply does not acknowledge the rights written in the Constitution as absolute rights, yet rights that aren’t written down are sacrosanct. This is false too. > [@](#): > > It’s as if the left has a “Shadow Constitution” which they regard as more legitimate than the actual Constitution. Newsflash – on some issues, the Constitution is not perfectly clear, and their is disagreement on the intention and interpretation of some parts of it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-vs-gop-thread-2014/687836.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tea-party-vs-gop-thread-2014/687836.md?page=7)