# Teabaggers mock man with Parkinson's **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 19, 2010, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teabaggers-mock-man-with-parkinsons/533009 "2010-03-19T14:29:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teabaggers-mock-man-with-parkinsons/533009/201 "2010-03-21T05:17:34Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I’m not asking anyone to. No, actually, you seem to be demanding it. > [@](#): > > So you think we should do away with credit card companies, home and car loans and any other kind of credit, as well as insuring that both birth control and abortion are legal, cheap and easily accessible? It appears that you think one has something to do with the other, and if so you will need to be clearer. If not, my answer to doing away with credit card companies and all that is no, but I am beginning to think that if we have to have a nanny state, we should do it in ways that actually create a better society, so why not have laws that cap the amount of credit people should be allowed to carry? And/or how much mortgage they can have. And put education on how to intelligently deal with credit in the high schools. Maybe even require people pass a test in order to get credit. All forms of birth control, including abortion, should always be legal and easily accessible. Simple forms should be cheap. No one should be forced to have (women) or pay for (men) a baby they never wanted to have. Access to sterilization should not be so difficult. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teabaggers-mock-man-with-parkinsons/533009/202 "2010-03-21T09:14:03Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Jesus said to pay your taxes. Of course. And I do. Jesus didNOT say I must stay silent when proplr discuss whether we should raise taxes. If this thing passes, I’ll pay my increased taxes for it. And I’ll accept that my fellow citizens, misguided as they will be if they approve this, are acting in good faith, and that we can add another expected entitlement to the list of things that Americans support. Like the Monopoly Free Parking, I can argue that the idea is poor, but if we as a society disagree, I as a member of society accept it. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > This is an utterly false and disingenuous of progressive ideology, and a callow dismissal of your civic responsibility. I have no idea if it’s a fair representation of progressive ideology, but it’s what **Blaron** said. And it’snot my civic responsibility to donate the money I earn in excess f $90,000 to make you happy. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teabaggers-mock-man-with-parkinsons/533009/203 "2010-03-21T09:58:19Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Since Bricker doesn’t want to try this one, I will. I think that we need to get back to a society where personal responsibility is _expected_, where people actually wait until they can afford it to buy things, who only have as many children as they can realistically comfortably raise and who do not have them as teens or underemployed singles. This would make a big cut in the number of uninsured and unisurable, to the point that it would be far easier for the government to take care of those people who “fall thru the cracks”. Instead of wanting and expecting to live in a nanny state, people need to get back to taking care of themselves. In other words, you want people to be exploited, and to suffer. Because that’s what happens in the real world with nonsense like “personal responsibility”; it translates to “you’re on your own, sucker!” “Personal responsibility” it just a noble sounding way of saying “screw you” to the rest of humanity; it’s a way of saying that you have no responsibility. People wouldn’t stop behaving in the ways you condemn as irresponsible; they’d just suffer and die when they did. Just like they always have throughout history. The golden age of “personal responsibility” you want to return to never existed. Instead, we had a smug society where if, say, a girl got pregnant young and unmarried, she was coerced into marriage, into an abortion, or locked away somewhere while everyone studiously ignored the whole thing, pretending such problems didn’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teabaggers-mock-man-with-parkinsons/533009/204 "2010-03-21T12:38:25Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > Exclusion of pre-existing conditions isn’t a “yarn.” It’s a fact. In the absence of legislation prohibiting them from doing so, insurance companies will naturally (and do) exclude from coverage those who have known conditions that may require expensive treatment. Or at least exclude that condition from coverage. You do realize that group coverage typically does not exclude pre-existing conditions, right? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teabaggers-mock-man-with-parkinsons/533009/205 "2010-03-21T12:40:23Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I didn’t use any definition at all, but as it happns, most rich people never earn a dime of it. We have a very small, parasitic overclass that needs to be punctured and drained. Right. You are only talking about 100 people. The run-of-the mill member of the top 1% or so of taxpayers earns every dime he/she makes. As it happens, you are also wrong about what should be done with these 100. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teabaggers-mock-man-with-parkinsons/533009/206 "2010-03-21T12:50:15Z")
I love it when people like Der Trihs and Dio talk tough to rich people (i.e, talking about how rich people are parasites that need to be drained, and all that). It’s like hearing a serial killer in the world’s most secure jail cell bragging about the murders he would perform if he got out–it would be creepy to hear the bragging if he weren’t locked up, but when he is locked up, there is something sort of satisfying about it. It’s nice to know that someone who wants to do evil things really really wants to do those things and has absolutely no power to do them. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teabaggers-mock-man-with-parkinsons/533009/207 "2010-03-21T13:48:06Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > You do realize that group coverage typically does not exclude pre-existing conditions, right? Cite? From the [Department of Labor FAQ on HIPAA](http://www.dol.gov/ebsa/faqs/faq_consumer_hipaa.html): Although HIPAA adds protections and makes it easier to switch jobs without fear of losing health coverage for a preexisting condition, the law has limitations. For instance, HIPAA: Does not require that employers offer health coverage; Does not guarantee that any conditions you now have (or have had in the past) are covered by your new employer’s health plan; and Does not prohibit an employer from imposing a preexisting condition exclusion period if you have been treated for a condition during the past 6 months. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teabaggers-mock-man-with-parkinsons/533009/208 "2010-03-21T14:17:22Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I love it when people like Der Trihs and Dio talk tough to rich people (i.e, talking about how rich people are parasites that need to be drained, and all that). It’s like hearing a serial killer in the world’s most secure jail cell bragging about the murders he would perform if he got out–it would be creepy to hear the bragging if he weren’t locked up, but when he is locked up, there is something sort of satisfying about it. It’s nice to know that someone who wants to do evil things really really wants to do those things and has absolutely no power to do them. Wow. You know what’s funny and ironic about that? No, come to think on it, no, you probably don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teabaggers-mock-man-with-parkinsons/533009/209 "2010-03-21T16:14:57Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Wow. You know what’s funny and ironic about that? No, come to think on it, no, you probably don’t. Well, I know what you think is funny and ironic about it. But I don’t have adolescent fantasies about what I would do to a class of people if I got my way. I just have ideas about the best way to govern a society. That’s the critical difference. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teabaggers-mock-man-with-parkinsons/533009/210 "2010-03-21T17:44:55Z")
No, the critical difference is that you’re wrong. All the rest of it is just confetti and cotton candy. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teabaggers-mock-man-with-parkinsons/533009/211 "2010-03-21T18:10:29Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > You do realize that group coverage typically does not exclude pre-existing conditions, right? I don’t know what’s “typical.” I admit this freely. I do know that, in the past, I have been denied coverrage for a pre-existing condition upon taking a new job. It wasn’t Parkinson’s – this was quite a few years ago, before I had Parkinson’s, or at least before I knew I had it. I was denied coverage for needed knee surgery (a knee replacement). It took a long time, but ultimately I did get coverage (under a different insurance plan). It was a rough year between needing the surgery and getting it. For all I know, the law, or the plan that denied me coverage, may have changed since then. Now, putting up with knee pain and the inability to walk very far, or ride a bicycle, is an inconvenience. It can be dealt with. Putting up with untreated Parkinson’s in the future, as the condition progresses, would be more than an inconvenience. And, in any event, let us say that legislation is passed that prohibits group plans from excluding pre-existing conditions. Good. This would be a good thing. I would still not be able to go out on my own as a consultant (something I’ve thought of doing – I believe there’s a market for what I do) and purchasing my own insurance. And covering me (if I could) \*and \*my wife would be prohibitively expensive, especially in the initial stages of running my own business. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teabaggers-mock-man-with-parkinsons/533009/212 "2010-03-21T18:17:55Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > You do realize that group coverage typically does not exclude pre-existing conditions, right? From **Zakalwe’s** cite above: > [@](#): > > I just changed jobs. Seven months ago, I received my last treatment for carpal tunnel syndrome. Can my new employer’s plan apply a preexisting condition exclusion? > > No. If your last treatment was more than 6 months before enrollment in your new employer’s health plan and you have had no other advice or care relating to your carpal tunnel syndrome in the last 6 months, your condition cannot be subject to a preexisting condition exclusion. Since I take medication every day, and have to renew my prescriptions monthly, seems to me that I could be excluded, at least for coverage for this condition. My last treatment (depending on how that word is defined) is either the last pill I took, or the last time my doctor called in or wrote a prescription for me. These things obviously happen more frequently than every six months. It is true that I might find a job with insurance that doesn’t exclude pre-existing conditions, or at least my pre-existing condition. It may be that my state insurance regulation rules provide stronger protections. Right now, I don’t know. But I’m sure you can imagine that it’s all pretty worrying. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teabaggers-mock-man-with-parkinsons/533009/213 "2010-03-21T19:35:38Z")
SL, there are ways to get group insurance even if you are an independent consultant. One way is to become a “group” of one. Look, the main point here is you shouldn’t let scare tactics from the left (or the right, for that matter) keep you up at night. You could also use a health savings account to save money on regular health expenses. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teabaggers-mock-man-with-parkinsons/533009/214 "2010-03-21T19:54:21Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > SL, there are ways to get group insurance even if you are an independent consultant. One way is to become a “group” of one. Look, the main point here is you shouldn’t let scare tactics from the left (or the right, for that matter) keep you up at night. You could also use a health savings account to save money on regular health expenses. I know. New York is a particularly tough and expensive market, but yes, there are policies available, if one is willing to pay the price. I don’t let scare tactics from either left or right worry me. Realities worry me, responsibilities (my wife) worry me, the future worries me. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teabaggers-mock-man-with-parkinsons/533009/215 "2010-03-22T02:14:50Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > In other words, you want people to be exploited, and to suffer. Because that’s what happens in the real world with nonsense like “personal responsibility”; it translates to “you’re on your own, sucker!” “Personal responsibility” it just a noble sounding way of saying “screw you” to the rest of humanity; it’s a way of saying that you have no responsibility. Those are other words, but they are not mine. OTOH, yes, I don’t have any responsibility to you or anyone else who demands that I go without to pay for whatever it is that you are currently thinking you are entitled to. Since you apparently like those words, your demands on our income is the same thing as saying “screw you sucker, I want you to pay for this”. > [@](#): > > People wouldn’t stop behaving in the ways you condemn as irresponsible; they’d just suffer and die when they did. Really? If we no longer allowed people to go bankrupt while keeping some or most of their possessions, you don’t think they might be more careful about running up credit card debt? If our society quit treating teenage pregnancy and children born in poverty as natural and something to be celebrated, you don’t think people might quit choosing to have children they cannot afford? If we as a society placed more reward on personal responsibility instead of punishing it, you don’t think more people might decide to be responsible? > [@](#): > > Just like they always have throughout history. The golden age of “personal responsibility” you want to return to never existed. Instead, we had a smug society where if, say, a girl got pregnant young and unmarried, she was coerced into marriage, into an abortion, or locked away somewhere while everyone studiously ignored the whole thing, pretending such problems didn’t exist. And how is that worse than what we currently have? Do you think that is worse than 14 year olds raising babies, women who cannot afford the children having more, restrictions on birth control but none on birth? You prefer to condemn all these babies to a poor upbringing, instead of putting the punishment on the ones who put them in that situation? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teabaggers-mock-man-with-parkinsons/533009/216 "2010-03-22T02:44:50Z")
Wait, why are they doing this?! [Didn’t Rush Limbaugh already **cover** Parkinson’s?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_limbaugh#Michael_J._Fox_incident) It’s **so**'06! ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teabaggers-mock-man-with-parkinsons/533009/217 "2010-03-22T16:13:52Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > Nobody likes one-trick pony socks. Now I want pony socks. ☹ I can’t decide if they’d be more awesome as socks with ponies on them or socks for a pony, but either way, I want. > [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > I was diagnosed quite recently, less than a year ago. The only people who know about this, online or in the real world, are my wife and my closest friend. Well, that blows. Thanks for sharing–hopefully if you ever have to switch insurance, we’ll have modified our system enough that your concerns will be a moot point. > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > UHC requires higher taxes, which necessarily reduces economic activity. So, if you want to think about an alternate universe where the US has UHC, you can’t just think “I wouldn’t have to worry about paying for health care.” You also have to think “The job I have may not exist.” Yes–let’s not forget the vast economic wasteland that is every country with UHC. The last time I transferred through Heathrow, it was pretty much a tent city. … Oh wait. > [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > In the absence of legislation prohibiting them from doing so, insurance companies will naturally (and do) exclude from coverage those who have known conditions that may require expensive treatment. Or at least exclude that condition from coverage. Until we require everyone to have health insurance at all times, pre-existing condition clauses will never go away. Ever. Otherwise, people would only pick up health insurance when they had a problem and then drop it as soon as they were healthy. Premiums would go through the fucking roof. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teabaggers-mock-man-with-parkinsons/533009/218 "2010-03-22T16:29:49Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Yes–let’s not forget the vast economic wasteland that is every country with UHC. The last time I transferred through Heathrow, it was pretty much a tent city. > > … Oh wait. We keep the areas close to the international airports full of Potemkin villages to fool the toursits. Get more that 20 miles away and the streets are full of the bodies of those killed by the Death Panels. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teabaggers-mock-man-with-parkinsons/533009/219 "2010-03-23T00:30:06Z")
> [@Rand Rover](#): > > UHC requires higher taxes, which necessarily reduces economic activity. So, if you want to think about an alternate universe where the US has UHC, you can’t just think “I wouldn’t have to worry about paying for health care.” You also have to think “The job I have may not exist.” If that’s the case, [why hasn’t the stock market reacted](http://www.salon.com/technology/how_the_world_works/2010/03/22/healthcare_reform_and_the_stock_market/index.html)? If the doomsayers were correct, shareholders should be bolting to sell their shares before they become worthless. That doesn’t look like it’s happening. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teabaggers-mock-man-with-parkinsons/533009/220 "2010-03-23T01:40:07Z")
Hey SFG and Blalron, those are some extremely good arguments. They are so good that I cannot refute them. You win. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teabaggers-mock-man-with-parkinsons/533009.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teabaggers-mock-man-with-parkinsons/533009.md?page=12)