Teach me to appreciate Metal?

If I could provide a slight diversion into a style I love related to the point in history you are at, may I present Industrial Metal?

Ministry*, oh yeah, gimme some Ministry, pretty please!

Maybe some White Zombie, too. I’d be surprised if you hadn’t heard More Human Than Human on the radio. There’s a lot more than that, but the style tends to get pretty poppy or heroin-y pretty fast (heh, almost synonyms).

But! While we were talking crossover earlier, I forgot to mention the completely irreplaceable Bad Brains they were crossover long before even thrash was even really a thing. Heck, they invented Groove Metal, hell, they could do a medley of one of their own songs, a Beatles song and a Stones song, Damn, they ruled.
*I’m still not sure if that opening riff is really someone picking that fast, or a sample of a stun gun. I can still do an OK Dick Dale, but I’ve never been able to pull that one off convincingly. The guy from Rigor Mortis was playing guitar for him a lot at the time (JFC, that guy was fast). That makes it about a 50/50 proposition, since they also used a lot of samples. Only Jorgensen’s hairdresser knows for sure.

Yesterday was busy so I didn’t get to write up my daily progress report.

I listened to Master of Puppets. I have heard the title track before, but only because it was used in the film that Snowboarder Bo had me watch when I started this whole thing. Given that it’s such a classic song it’s weird to me that it never made it to my ears before. Maybe because it’s almost 9 minutes long. The other thing that struck me was, even though I had only heard in in the movie, it was INSTANTLY recognizable. The only other song that I am positive I would recognize like that was Iron Maiden’s Run for the Hills (also from that movie and off of Number of the Beast. I should have probably given that track more credit for having the same quality). Like I said I also listened to Ride the Lightning again, and watched the Lost in Vegas reaction to Fade to Black. I really like Ride the Lightning. I found Master of Puppets the album to be a little less engaging, though the title track was awesome and totally deserving of the praise.

Last night I watched Get Thrashed as recommended by Bo. It caused me to add a couple of bands to my playlist, and to decide that I want to listen to Kill Em All before I listen to Peace Sells since it seems (from the movie) that it is kind of a halfway Metallica halfway Megadeath album. I am really looking forward to Megadeath now though.

Ministry is decidedly on my list, but I want to hang with thrash for a bit before I head off into other subgenres. Also, I am vaguely familiar with White Zombie because of when they were popular. I know Nine Inch Nails pretty well too for the same reason (Smashing Pumpkins Melancholy and the Infinite Sadness and NiN The Downward Spiral were two of the first records I bought with my own money before I fell in with the punk rock crowd).

It’s weird because I absolutely know some of the crossover bands. I have listened to the fist Suicidal Tendencies album maybe a thousand times. It played at almost every party I went to in high school (as did the first two Rage albums who are, I suppose, technically metal) If the Bad Brains are a crossover band (I’m skeptical, to me that are fully pure punk) but I know them well too. The movie helped me understand that blending though. Metal Heads seem to have been a little more accepting of other sub cultures than other sub cultures were of them. At least where Thrash is concerned culture seems to be a much bigger dividing line than actual music was. It is crazy to me that I wrote off bands like Metallica (and especially Anthrax) for years simply because they were metal and I was a punk. And I wasn’t a ride or die punk either. I was into hip hop and ska and old school country western and thought of myself as way more open minded than my peers. Sometimes you don’t realize you are being closed minded until you look back.

So that’s my revelation for the day.

Up today is going to be Kill Em All and Peace Sells. And then I’m going to try to watch that other movie.

Your posts are fun to read, NAF.

You’re about to listen to those 2 albums in the right order, you know.

See, Dave Mustaine was in Metallica in the early days of the band. He co-wrote some of the songs on Kill 'Em All. Nothing motivates Dave Mustaine like hate, tho, so when he was kicked out he formed Megadeth, with the intention of out-thrashing his former bandmates (and everyone else). It’s debatable whether or not he did that (he didn’t), but it’s pretty clear that Megadeth still rocks.

With a background in punk rock music, yes, you’re going to start seeing some band names pop up on t-shirts, in interviews, maybe even in footage, that you know and associate with punk rock but that are part of the Heavy Metal Universe. Suicidal Tendencies, Rage Against The Machine, hed (P.E.), Snot. Starting in the late 1970s and early 1980s, we started to see some very talented musicians with some very disparate influences trying their hand at melding what they loved.

At the forefront was Bad Brains. They had the musical chops playing and the talent in songwriting and arranging to meld hard rock/heavy metal of the mid 1970s with funk and reggae, but it was their embrace of the energy and immediacy of punk rock that truly set them apart musically. Throw in their politics and religious perspective and they were undeniably interesting, but it was the sheer frenzy of their live shows, all conducted while maintaining precise playing, that won people over. There was never anything like them, and never really has been anything else like them since.

They paved the way for acts like Suicidal Tendencies, who similarly embraced punk, rock and funk and then filtered that thru the haze of late 1970s Southern California’s lower middle class for another fairly unique sound and perspective.

By the early 1980s punk bands were starting to flirt with other genres, particularly the dance music emerging from the rubble that disco left behind and jazz, with rap music a rapidly gaining third. The more technically proficient musicians, the ones who were able to ideate and translate their ideas into actual music, led the way.

The same thing started to happen in metal in the mid-80s, shortly after thrash developed. There was already some splintering, some experimentation that was being done, but once Possessed and Death (especially Death, IMO) came into being, it was impossible not to notice that there were a number of distinct branches that were growing, no matter that they were all part of the same tree.

Feel free to listen to Megadeth to your heart’s content: their output doesn’t change much from one album to the next; they are fairly consistent in tone and quality, at least thru Countdown To Extinction.

Then, when you’ve had your fill, listen to Slayer’s Reign In Blood.

She listening to Kill Em All, I weirdly don’t recognize the band on that album. About 3 songs actually sound like Metallica on Ride the Lightning or Master of Puppets. It was really surprising. It was also a little less interesting than Ride the Lightning was as an album. So I have decided that Ride the Lightning is my favorite Metallica album. I should probably listen to the ones that came after Master of Puppets to be sure, but based on what everyone is saying those are yet again more or less a different band. So, another time. I really really like Ride the Lightning though. It’s easily my favorite thing I have listened to in this whole experience followed by… Peace Sells But Whose Buying? which takes the second slot from Judas Priest.

That is also a heck of an album. Just, fun, front to back, nothing I don’t like about it other than a lack of sonic variety. I listened to Rust in Peace also, which was good too but felt like it was trying a little harder to be epic and didn’t have the effortless feeling that Peace Sells has. Tornado of Souls is great though. Probably my favorite off Rust in Peace. But I can very much see myself listening to both Megadeth albums more.

Classics for a reason, right?

I watched the Rise of LA Thrash movie also, and have decided that I should probably listen to Exodus, Dark Angel and Testament before I tackle Slayer. I am going to listen to the first Exodus album today and probably the S.O.D. album that was suggested.

Any recommendations for Testament or Dark Angel? They seem to be the other two bands that everyone was talking about in both these Thrash documentaries. Oh, I was also going to listen to Kreator based on the documentary. And I seem to like Thrash, which makes sense now that I know more. I’ll be listening to Slayer before the week is over though (and Ministry) and then, I guess on to Black Metal starting with Bathory?

It seems that the path sort of goes in a few directions. It goes off to Black Metal, off to Death Metal and off to Other (seems like mostly Doom metal but also Groove and other stuff).

Not really sure how to follow those paths or if I should even tackle them separately. I have Death, Possessed, and Celtics Frost on my playlist which chronologically all happen around this time period.

Ride The Lightning is also my favorite Metallica album, even tho MoP is my favorite Metallica song, so you’re not alone there.

Exodus, Testament, Dark Angel, Kreator… listen away. The thing is, IMO, all of these bands were far, far better in the 2nd Wave of Thrash (post 2000) than in the first run. I dunno what happened, but ALL of the older bands (well, not Metallica) suddenly were out-agro-ing all their younger counterparts, and then the young 'uns kinda went “ohhhhhh like that” and got on board themselves. So you have a lot to look forward to when you want to feed your thrash hunger.

And yeah, from here on the paths are many. Glam metal/hair metal dies a much deserved death, death metal comes into form, black metal and goth metal march on, grindcore takes form and takes off and stoner/doom/groove & desert metal are in their nascent stages.

At this point, just take your pick and we can help you start exploring; you’ve got a good handle on the history of metal and some experience with some of the landmark bands and music. You’re pretty much good to go.

This is just to say that this S.O.D. album you guys suggested rules and that Exodus Bonded by Blood was a little disappointing. My expectations for it were maybe too high.

But Speak English or Die, that’s a keeper. Anti procrastination song is my favorite thing ever.

Aye; that one is pure genius.

As far as where next, Black Metal seems to have more fans in this thread than Death does. What is the bridge between this stuff and Mayhem posted earlier? Bathory?

Also, what actually is Doom Metal? I see that mentioned a lot but usually without any examples.

Doom is the genre that worships Black Sabbath; all things doom trace a direct line back to them.

Subject matter is typically dark and gloomy stuff: death, demons, bad places, bad people, hopelessness, etc.

The music is, like Black Sabbath, blues based but crucially includes the tritone. Doom is usually medium or slow paced, but not always. Low end via drums and bass are essential components, where in lots of other metal the bass is effectively nonexistent or creatively secondary. Guitars are typically down-tuned one or more whole steps. Doom is meant to be listened to LOUD, so that the music moves so much air that it feels suffocating, pressing all around you with tangible force. Or at least, as close as you can get before you actually start losing your hearing or breaking windows.

First came Sabbath just being Sabbath. Then we had some bands that kind of were Sabbath-like, but were also kinda arena rock/power metal-y; bands like Witchfinder General, Trouble and Pentagram. Then Scott “Wino” Heinrich eventually came along, realized he was born like 15 years too late and started trying to rectify that with a series of bands that continues to this day, including his first band, The Obsessed and his second band, Saint Vitus (the title of this album is Born Too Late, ffs). Wino is a key figure in doom metal, a true Defender of the Faith; any metalhead who sees him in public should thank him for his life’s efforts and offer to buy him a beer or fire up a joint, IMO (I would).

You can hear the ultra-slow drums there. The long, drawn out guitar riff is still only a few notes/chords, but it takes like ten seconds to happen instead of one-and-a-half. The melancholy, Ozzy-esque vocals. This is proto-doom, IMO, not quite fully formed yet.

Then the whole desert/stoner thing started kicking up dust (think Kyuss) and before we could cough, Sleep happened. Holy Mountain, did Sleep happen!

So now with Doom as a full-fledged genre, we started to see some ideas coalesce around the term: Sabbath influence, reverence for analog recordings, old amps, old guitars, old effect, etc. A love of marijuana. Near universal attempts to make music that was “heavy” sounding musically.

Doom bands often seem to need at least one album to get warmed up, get their feet under them, etc. The UK’s Electric Wizard fit into that category, delivering two landmark albums after a decent but not-very-exciting debut: 1997’s …come my fanatics (my favorite of theirs) and 2000’s Dopethrone. These two albums set the bar impossibly high for just how low music could be and remain seminal 2 decades on; Funeralopolis is pretty much Doom’s perfect song just like Master Of Puppets is Thrash’s perfect song.

From there, things just kind of took off. Take the basic blueprint of Black Sabbath’s music, twist it up and smoke it and call it Doom.

Another notable band/album from the early days, one that took me a few years to finally acquire back in the mid-2000, is Acrimony - Tumuli Shroomaroom. Awesome stoner/doom, but since they only released this one full length many overlook them.

Note that desert and stoner often walk the line between “rock” and “metal”; for the most part nobody gives a shit except people who want to argue like it means something.

Anyway, after that thing shave kept evolving. There’s actual stoner doom, (bands like Bongzilla and Bongripper and Seedeater, where everything is related to pot), there’s classical doom (like Candlemass), there’s Satanic doom, black doom, death doom, drone metal, etc. Even sludge metal traces it’s roots directly back to Black Sabbath (and I love me some sludge!). Oh, and certain locales also have their own special flavor of doom: southern US doom, Pac NW doom, UK doom, etc.

Doom is one of my favorite genres. I can offer plenty of recs including new bands like Whores Of Tijuana and bands that are still active after long careers, like Sleep - Marijuanaut’s Theme.

Oh, and then there’s new bands that sound like they’re old bands, like Orchid.

That’s a pretty good start, I reckon. Let me know if you wanna talk more about Doom, eh.

ffs :smack: I just noticed that autocorrect changed Weinrich to Heinrich.

:mad: DYAC!

I traffic turned a 45 minute drive into a 2 hour drive today, so I decided screw the plan let’s listen to Rein In Blood.

HOLY FUCK.

I was not prepared for that. No, scratch that, I was prepared, I just didn’t expect it. I also listened to Seasons in the Abyss, that was more what I expected. Rein in Blood was not that. First off, are we certain that they weren’t speeding up the tape? It is rare that I am just full on astonished by a guitar part. But I don’t know how the heck you string those ideas together, and make them sound good, and play IN RYTHM at that speed. Also, the guitar sound is perfect for this type of music. This is probably the first band since motorhead where the guitar sound on the lead is exactly right. Maybe that’s Rick Rubin, maybe it’s just advances in technology, but I love the guitar sound on this album on the leads. But yeah, in the race for who is the hardest and fastest and most literally jaw dropping band, Slayer wins. Is it even a competition? I get the feeling at one point it was a competition.

Here is the thing that kills me though. And this was thrown into relief by the Exodus album, it’s hard and fast and still musical. It’s not just speed, it’s not just power. It’s speed and power played with a swing and melody and honest to God the most creative lead guitar I have ever heard. Without the lead guitar I don’t know if I would have liked them as much. The rhythm section was solid, the singer has a great voice (actually I’ll come back to him because there is cool stuff there too) the rhythm guitar is great, but non of it on its own is extra remarkable. But, that lead guitar destroys and their songs, with the notable exception of Reborn and Epidemic which are the same damn song with different lyrics, all find unique ways to play off that hardcore sound. Just ridiculous.

Back to the singer. His articulation was damned impressive. Again, at that speed a lot of people become unintelligible. You can understand him clear as a bell. Again, some of that is probably Rick Rubin and the fact that most of the people who sing at that speed are recording in a garage rather than at Def Jam, but even still.

Legitimately, a week ago I don’t think I would have gotten it. But, yeah, I get it. This was great. I’m glad I’m doing this project!

Oh, one other thought. I was pretty concerned that I would have difficulty taking Slayer seriously because of lyrical content. The satanic thing doesn’t do anything for me and anyone ringing that bell too seriously is going to be a little hard to take (See Venom, who I liked for what they were but haven’t listened to again and likely won’t.)

But, here, no problem. Likely because it was really well written and at times clever. It ended up being like hip hop about subjects that don’t resonate with me. It ends up being about the sound of the words more than the content.

Good stuff.

So, a couple of duds, but SOD and Slayer win out the day!

That’s great, NAF; I’m glad you ‘got’ it.

Like, all of it, especially how it takes some education and experience before a person’s ears are ready for some of this. There’s this whole set of building blocks that got the music where it is today, and it can be difficult to get there for listening purposes without building up the musical vocabulary, so to speak.

Keep in mind that Slayer’s RIB came out in 1986, the same year that Megadeth gave us Peace Sells… and Metallica released MOP. There simply wasn’t anything else like Slayer. They were clearly several light years beyond other thrash bands technically, with a lyrical focus on evil in all it’s forms that their contemporaries lacked. Their songwriting was solid because it was simple; they weren’t trying to wow us with their ability to change the tone of their songs at all, they were just trying to bludgeon everything in their path as quickly as possible. I’m pretty sure that literally every single musician who has heard it has said “yep: they win.”

Death metal latched onto the evil lyrics, the precision, the power of Dave Lombardo’s double kick, etc. and explored more complex song structures that they fused with the melodocism that Slayer eschewed in favor of atonality. At the same time, the guys were coming of age who would soon form the bands at the heart of the Norwegian Black Metal movement, who also embraced more complex song structures and more melodic content.

Metalcore, meanwhile, focused on the chug, taking all the best parts of metal and burning the fluff off. What’s left is chugging, mosh pit-able riffs with brutal breakdowns and lots of shouted, gang choruses. It’s metal that’s punk as fuck.

Hatebreed - Destroy Everything
Throwdown - Burn

Later, some jackass figured out that a tiny bit of melody could be a cool contrast to all the shouting which then got overdone by like the 3rd song but hey, chicks dig it so now we got screamo and emocore and that kind of stuff and I doubt it’ll stop any time soon. Thanks Killswitch Engage. :mad:

So going through this thread and the Map of Metal this morning I decided to put Doom Metal on a back burner and try to follow both Black and Death metal sorta kinda at the same time. They seem to more or less co develop and then splinter right around this point in the late 80s so we shall see what happens.

With that being said Bathory (self titled) Possessed - 7 Churches, and Death - Scream Bloody Gore are on the docket for my drive time. Which, if I am reading things correctly, weave in and out with when Slayer in particular was at its most influential which seems to be something of a key.

So with Bathory… Is it supposed to sound like the recording equipment is in the room with the drum kit and everyone else is in a room next door or is it just a function of them not having great recording equipment?

One of the things I can’t stand about black metal is it’s embrace of poor recording as an aesthetic.

I am having a hard time with it.

I am liking Possessed better, but I think expecting that I could take in three albums in one day was ambitious. Both took multiple listens and I’m not even ready to write up thoughts yet.

It used to piss me off when I was younger, but then I grew to somewhat appreciate it. This was a time with lots of terrible releases production-wise, with records being re-released on cd.

I’ll post some examples I like:

Darkthrone - A Blaze In The Northern Sky (It sounds like it’s recorded in a toilet, but somehow works.)
Satyricon - Dark Medieval Times (The quintessential black metal guitar sound, really angry wasps.)
Gorgoroth - Pentagram (Amazing vocals)

Here’s a really weird one… I got it as a kid and could never listen all the way through! I was fucking pissed off at the sound. I’m still not sure if I like it or not, but I think it’s hilarious:
Darkthrone - Goatlord (It’s a demo! Those backing vocals! Haha!)

I’m posting full albums, I hope that’s okay. I usually don’t listen to single songs, I like to put on the whole thing. NAF, I would love to take you through an introduction of black metal like Bo did, but I just can’t. In a living room with some cold beer, sure, but I’m just not enough of a writer to put it into writing.

No worries. I just feel like with Black Metal I’m missing a key to something. There are points when I am listening to some songs on the Bathory album or the Darkthrone you linked to where I am almost starting to get into it, but it really feels a lot of the time like I’m stuck in someones drum practice and the band I really want to listen to is in the studio next door. And, I am getting the feeling that that is maybe a choice? But I can’t make sense of it. I really want to figure it out because there is some of what is going on that is cool and interesting, but I am missing the road map. I don’t know if jumping ahead in time will fix some of this or not.

And it kills me because I like low fi stuff generally, but this is low fi to the point that I’m struggling to find the song. Seem like it would be awesome live, and maybe that’s the point?

I think I have thoughts on Possessed but I want to listen to Death today also and I’ll come back with thoughts on both of them. Short answer is I like them less than Slayer but that may be sort of unfair to Possessed.