Teach me to appreciate Metal?

Cafe Society
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I was listening to bands on YouTube tonight and a video popped up in my recs that I thought might be good to link here, so I gave it a view. Not only was it a fairly decent job of history-telling, the guy who made the video at the end recommended a written piece published by another guy just before he published this video. I gave that a whirl as well and thought that the video guy’s rec was terrific so I’m providing that link as well.

For all interested parties, here’s the video: The Surprising Origins of the Death Growl (7:24 long)

And here’s the written piece: Harsh Vocals: A History by Andrew Hatch over at Heavy Blog Is Heavy.

Both go back hundreds of years in describing other guttural vocal styles and techniques; it’s a nice touch to show that they’re serious about this endeavour. But they mostly focus on metal, of course, and show the evolution of the style in much more detail than I did in my post.

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Thanks for those. That article in particular was really great. I’m going to go back to that blog.

I have been listening to Bolt Thrower pretty much non stop for the last couple days. It’s really really fun. But I’m here to talk about Amon Amarth. I don’t know if I will ever play Twilight of the Thunder God again or not, but I will forever charish the memory of driving home from work going 70 on the highway and driving into the sunset while that played full blast. Hell of a way to end a day.

Strikes me as a touch cheesy in the same way King Diamond is. Cheesy but leaning into it and sort of saying “screw you we are going to be too awesome to be lame” So, very fun. Would gladly take suggestions for other albums or other similar stuff.

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You’re welcome; I thought that you and perhaps others would appreciate them.

Awesome! Glad to hear it. Not only am I glad you enjoy them, but I’m glad you’re listening to them a lot. I really can’t stress enough how much of this education has to with repetition. Just like we did multiplication tables and spelling quizzes and all manner of other rote things in school, we can educate our ears best by exposure.

Oh, I think if you listen to more of them you’ll find that they’re as committed to their style of death metal as Bolt Thrower was to theirs.

I don’t find them cheesy, but I understand what you mean. The thing is, you have to remember that theatrical aspect.

Rock stars are all about the person that the fans supposes is on the stage.

Metal doesn’t do it that way, for the most part. When you look at a metal act on stage, you’re looking at theatre, remember? And theatre is only cheesy when it’s half-assed or pandering and acknowledging it. GWAR is kinda cheesy; Amon Amarth not so much IMO.

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Okay, I forgot to incude a single link in that post; I’ve come back to rectify that.

So now we’ve got you all the way up to 1990 as far as metal in general but also death metal, black metal and thrash. We’ve actually got you into the late 1990s and even 2000 with Doom.

You know many of the basics of the genres, how they developed and who some of the key formative bands were. You even know who influenced many of those bands, providing more insight into the music and its evolution.

At this point, I’d encourage you to keep listening to bands and noting what you like and don’t like about specific genres and styles. Because from here on out, there’s like a million sub-genres to explore, but frankly, you’ll encounter lots of them naturally if you just keep listening to stuff and remember to stray from your comfort zone once in a while.

For instance, I really like doom, but I can’t only listen to doom bands. When I go to bandcamp and hit ‘explore’ I end up searching thru all the different genres of metal. People misclassify their bands, they cross genres, etc. so browsing is a good skill to develop. Myself, I developed mine with decades of bookstore, record store and magazine rack shopping.

So anyway, some bands to keep in mind that we haven’t really mentioned yet:

Atheist brought a whole new level of musicianship and a crazy jazz influence to metal starting in 1990. While I find their music more compelling than rocking, it’s more the arrangements than the parts, and I wouldn’t change the arrangements at all. I think the music is meant to be compelling rather than rocking, to focus us more on the changes than the grooves, and in that I think it’s remarkably successful. This band ended up exerting a ton of influence on metal even if they had less-than-stellar sales.

In 1994, as thrash bands were fleeing for arena rock territory and grunge was converting the record industry, Rob Flynn emerged with his new band’s debut album. Machine Head’s Burn My Eyes. This was huge, and fans weren’t disappointed with the follow-up, 1997’s …The More Things Change.

Then, after what seemed like 6 or 7 really lean years, we were suddenly inundated with metal (okay, sure, a lot of it was nü metal, but ffs, a lot of that shit rocks). Korn’s first couple of albums, Snot, Suicidal Tendencies, Tool, Helmet, Kreator, Marilyn Manson, Metallica and, of course, Slayer.

In short order we had deathcore and tech death and microgrind and darkwave and all manner of crazily-named genres and bands.

So at this point, like I say, just keep listening and feel free to ask if you need help getting pointed in a particular direction. Oh, and let us know what you like and why you like it so we can try and help you find similar artists.

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We haven’t really done Tool yet, and I like them a lot. I’m not even sure what genre their later output is classed as - there is definitely a lot of prog in there - but Opiate, their first EP, was like being suddenly and unexpectedly punched in the face by a very angry, articulate Oxford don turned bare-knuckle boxer.

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So would you consider this whole exercise worth the effort? Have you come to appreciate Metal, which was the point of the thread? Do you have a sense of what elements of the diffrent subgroups you enjoy and which you don’t?

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Interesting question.

I definitely have a new appreciation for Thrash Metal. Slayer in particular is a band that a month ago I would have written off as just noise and I have been listening to Rein In Blood every couple of days now just because I want to. I am sort of disappointed by the Thrash bands outside the Big Four. I don’t hate what I have heard but I haven’t fallen in love with any of it. I do like Celtic Frosts first three albums quite a bit. They feel like they strike a nice balance between Thrash and some of the more theatrical NWOBHM. I think from this point in my life I want stuff that has that level of depth behind the pure aggression. The big four seem to have it, the other stuff mostly seems to not. I may, genuinely, be to old to listen to some of it for the first time. The crossover bands trip my punk rock trigger so that’s a whole other thing.

Doom Metal and some of the early NWOBHM stuff it was more about me simply being exposed to it. I knew Judas Priest existed but had never heard of, for example, Mercyful Fate or Venom. I don’t care for Venom much (they are fine and I am glad to know them, I get why they were influential.) but Mercyful Fate is awesome as is Judas Priest and Motorhead. There is something genuinely powerful about how they take the hard blues rock that I already liked from the 70s and push it forward.

Beyond that there is still a bit of wrapping my head around things I need to do. I think I’m starting to get the death growl thing. I actually really like it in Bolt Thrower. Bolt Thrower is, for me, what I liked about Motorhead but cranked up even further and in that sense the vocals make sense. I love that there is a sense of groove and drive and every now and then chaos, but mostly control. It’s exciting. I literally listened to them for 4 hours on Thursday non stop.

In Opeth the death growl is still a little weird but I prefer it to his clean vocals and, I like Opeth. I think what they are doing with instrumentation is really cool. Their use of rhythm is interesting and the textured worlds they build with their music are awesome.

Mastodon almost doesn’t feel like a metal band if that makes sense. They feel like any of the art rock I listened to in college and immediately after. Harder maybe? But that might comes from them growing out of the Doom (and sludge? I’m not totally sure I understand sludge) environments. Doom Metal instantly made sense so I almost want to leave them out. It’s like, oh this is where rock and roll disappeared to. It called itself doom metal and disappeared from public view. I haven’t explored some of the funeral doom and what not, but that’s all familiar territory for me.
Then there is drums. I think, I get the blast beat thing? But I’m still having trouble with it on the black metal front. There is a disconnect for me between what it feels like the rest of the music is trying to do and where the drums are going. I don’t know what to do with that. I’m going to keep plugging with the Black metal thing. I don’t get it. I don’t hate it, but I don’t get it.

Then there is the theatricality. Amon Amarth was fun, but Bo might be right I’m not appreciating the theater of it. I really like the theater of an album like Abigail by King Diamond. It’s was like listening to Opera. I plan to listen to more of his stuff, but it is a bit like listening to Tommy by the Who. It’s great, but works best as a whole not in pieces. When you add the death metal and dial back the overt theater just a notch it gets weird. I do feel like if I can wrap my head around it I might really like it. I had a similar reaction to bands like The Pogues when I first heard them, and they are a top ten band for me now. Sometimes it is just about exposure. And, Amon Amarth are the only band that I have felt really compelled to find out if they are playing in Philly anytime soon. They seem fun live. So there is that.
So, what elements am I connecting with independently of bands. I tend to have a hard time with bands that don’t have one of these elements. Lyrical interest, rhythmic and dynamic variety, melody. You don’t need all three but I need one of them. So, SOD is all fast and loud with no melody, but the lyrics are funny and they manage to surprise you with their songs too. Slayer lacks much in the way of melody and their lyrics don’t do anything for me but the rhythms and dynamics are constantly shifting in weird and interesting way that keep me engaged.
Motorhead and Mercyful Fate are pretty much all fast and loud but have melody to hook into. Bolt Thrower weirdly manages all three though they don’t do much with dynamics their rhythms kick ass and they manage to create melody in weird ways. They are a little light on lyrics that mean anything to me I guess, but with them I’m just jazzed that I can tell what the songs are about. Opeth seems to have all three. Mastodon has all three. Metallica has all three, megadeath has all three. Doom Metal all seems to have all three. Cannibal Corpse? None of the above.

I think most of all I have to have a little groove. I have too much blues rock in my background to be able to truck with stuff that abandons swing entirely unless you are going full on orchestral or you have lyrics that carry the day.

I also don’t care for flashy for the sake of flash. I went and listened to some hair metal and that’s what it feels like. All surface no depth. I didn’t even write a post because I couldn’t figure out what to say that wasn’t super trite. It’s… Meh. I have similar issues with Van Halen and some of this comes from me being super snobby about guitar and how it should be used. I think guitar, especially lead, need to be treated like a vocal instrument almost. A song with a lot of lead guitar is like a duet and a solo is another verse or chorus of the song. So solos that don’t match what the singer is doing or contrast in a logical way or otherwise compliment it dont work for me. Crazy speed for the sake of crazy speed also doesn’t work. I can play fast. Anyone can with enough practice. Play fast and say something. Play notes with intention. Be Charlie Parker not Kenny G.

Fortunately, it seems like a lot of stuff has groove and most non metal post 85 or so seems to not abuse the guitar in that way. Power metal might. I haven’t really gone down that rabbit hole.

So, have I gained an appreciation for metal? I have gained an appreciation for how silly that question is. Metal is vast. Way more vast than I imagined. More vast than Jazz which I didn’t think was possible. I have found bands and albums that I really like a lot. Maybe even some new favorites? Time will tell on that front.

I’m glad I did this. And I’m not bored yet so I’m going to keep digging. I will grok black metal before I die! But for now I’m going to keep pulling on this death metal string. I know melodic death metal is a sub genre unto itself. As are progressive and technical death metal. Suggestions are appreciated. I’ll give feedback but probably less often. I feel less if a need to go forward at break neck speeds than I did before.

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I’m unlikely to ever be a full-on metal fan. However a couple of years ago I was turned onto some sub-genres that I found cool. Drone metal, doom metal, etc. Boris, Earth, that sort of thing. Also even if it’s not really your taste, everyone should be aware of BabyMetal.

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Since you mentioned melodic death metal, I have to mention black death metal (or death black metal, blackened death metal etc.). This is in itself a pretty varied genre, often characterized by slower, heavier beats, variation in guitar work from black metal-style dissonant chords to more death metal-style technicality, and influences from other genres like industrial metal.

Zyklon - Core Solution

I’ll throw in something else: Killl!

I think you can call Killl glitch avant-metal or somesuch, only performing and recording live and never in a studio. They work with a lot of electronics, to the point of running the drummer (and maybe a guitar?) through the keyboards doing live-glitching. I’ve posted this video before in other metal threads, but I think they deserve another mention. I highly recommend “Live at Henie Onstad”, truly crazy album.

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And it’s probably about time you listen to some symphonic black metal: [Dimmu Borgir - Blessings Upon The Throne of Tyranny](Dimmu Borgir - Blessings Upon The Throne of Tyranny)

It is what it is, really. Totally over the top, theatrical and in this case awesome IMO. This album marked the point of no return for Dimmu. They were now becoming a black metal parody band and no hardcore black metal fan would them seriously ever again.

After this we’ll get to loner black metal. Incredibly depressive stuff.

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Aye; there’s a good reason that the Big 4 are called the Big 4.

You should prolly go ahead and start exploring bands from the 2nd Wave of Thrash and onward at this point.

Slayer brought Dave Lombardo back into the fold for the 2001’s God Hates Us All and it truly is a return to form for the band. Don’t get me wrong, I’m one of the unabashed fans of Diabolus In Musica, but its stripped down sound was a far cry from RiB or SitA. Kreator re-emerged with a new ferocity and focus; Mille seemed to have figured things out. Exodus re-emerged with a fucking vengeance, followed in short order by Testament. Dark Angel came back to us again (and again), although Gene Hoglan never left (thank Og). Etc., etc.

And a bunch of new bands popped up, carrying the torch for thrash metal but possessed of even better skills than bands had back in the '80s: they were actually able to play the kind of music they were trying to make. At the forefront, was Municipal Waste, from Richmond, Virginia. They showed up fully formed, totally grokking thrash music and with a gameplan of their own and they fucking nailed it, IMO. They brought fun and excitement and irreverence lyrically, but were so perfect in their execution that it didn’t seem corny, it was just fun (they still are, btw).

Anyway, they helped get some interest flowing and some momentum building that helped open the way for other bands like:

Gama Bomb is an Irish band. Kinda screechy vocals, but they work and the music is kick-ass.

Evile - UK band; this is their first album, before they went full Metallica.

Blood Tsunami - Norwegian band

Cripper - German band

Don’t forget Arch Enemy: Angela Gossow’s presence was huge, and really helped blaze a trial for women in extreme metal. A handful of their songs are good, IMO, but they are a good example of trying to meld the bombast of 80’s European metal (all the classical influences, the guitar wanking, etc.) with the intensity of thrash and the insanity of black metal and death metal. Alicia Gluz-White sings for them now, hand-picked by Miss Gossow herself.

I highly recommend the first few albums by The Haunted; they clearly worship at the altar of Slayer.

Revocation was amazing their first couple of albums, before they became a 4 piece and changed drummers (they’re still good, just different).

Skeletonwitch is from Ohio; they totally fucking rock.

Toxic Holocaust is from Portland, Oregon and they’re still going strong.

That’s not a complete list, by any means, but it is a fairly good set of known and respected bands that have emerged in the last 15 or so years.

Exodus’s Atrocity Exhibition albums are fucking amazing; don’t miss them.

Explore @ bandcamp.com, too. Come back and recommend something to us, eh. :smiley:

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The best heavy metal bands are all German, IMO - Rammstein, Kraftwerk, and Eisbrecher. and Blutengel. A good starter song for your German playlist would be “Links 2 3 4” by Rammstein.

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nm that sounded horrible, I had something playing in another tab that made it sound kind of good.

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Godspeed You! Black Emperor

I don’t know if post-metal is metal, but enjoy that.

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I do like Godspeed. I never considered them metal. They live in the same quasi math rock quasi ambient art rock category that Slint, Sigur Ros, and A Silver Mt. Zion live in.

I’ve always been partial to F#A#infinity personally, though it seems that Lift Your Skinny Fists stood the test of time better.

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For thrash outside the big 4 I would recommend Overkill.

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Ok. I have been listening to the Liquid Metal station on satellite radio today.

I just heard Voice of Trespass by Between the Burred and Me.

It’s insane and wonderful.

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Woot!

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Dead Flag Blues is a fucking masterpiece.

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Back with an update.

Still listening to Bolt Thrower. The only problem I have with them is that all their songs tend to rush together for me. If pressed I don’t think I could pick a favorite song, but I have decided that Mercenary and Honor Valor Pride are my favorite albums. Of the death metal bands I have listened to they are the ones that work the best for me and I have been thinking about why, and here is what I have come up with. They write songs that I recognize as songs and have a lot of rhythmic and dynamic variety that keeps things interesting. Also it does not hurt that I can kinda sorta understand the singer. Also there is a bit of an x factor. This is a band I genuinely like and there is always something a little intangible about that.

Other stuff I have been listening to. Listened to Entombed The Left Hand Path and enjoyed that a good bit too. I think the breaks into d beat style punkish rhythms (not exactly blast beats I don’t think, at least not from what I have read) see a little out of left field. I would like them to be a touch more logical in their song structure, but I dig the lead signers voice a lot and the general sound and vibe of the band works for me. I lined up Wolverine Blues to listen to in my next round of new (to me) stuff.

I gave At The Gates a listen and found it to be a little boring? I maybe had too high expectations because of the raves that it got and people writing about how it was a new style of Death Metal. I’m not sure I get that. Maybe you had to be there. It’s ok but nothing really grabbed me.

I listened to Nile - Those who the God’s Detest. OK. So. I think this is something that I will like if I come back to it. I couldn’t make it through the whole album in one sitting. It got to be a little much, but taken in smaller chunks I can dig this. I really appreciate that it has a very different musical approach while still being clearly Death Metal. It was intense, but the use of some of those more middle eastern sounding modes in the guitar was really neat. I think I appreciated it more intellectually than emotionally though which is why I needed to break up the listen. There is a level still where the super extreme stuff doesn’t make a ton of sense to me but this album gave me some hope that it might someday click. I know this isn’t the most extreme either because I also listened to…

Cryptopsy - None So Vile. One song. Not even the whole song. Only 2 and a half minutes of the first track. So, this is Technical Death Metal?
I… It was unpleasant. Maybe I’ll circle back. It gets a crap ton of praise. I do not understand it. Even a little. Back to broken brain territory.

I’ve also been listening to a TON of Sleep and Mastodon. I think I agree that I like the early Mastodon better than the newer stuff. They sort of wander off into a softer prog rock sound in later albums which is ok but I miss the intensity of The Leviathan or Blood Mountain. Honestly, finding The Leviathan had made this whole project worth it for me all on its own. I love that album. I plan to actually give Electric Wizard a listen this weekend. This whole genre feels very comfy to me.

Oh and I gave Amon Amarth another listen. I still think the Twighlight of the Thunder God album sounds just a little like it’s full of TV show theme music (not in a bad way) , but the next album Sutur Rising I really liked. The intensity is turned up a click on that one and the whole thing works a lot more for me. I feel less like a goof listening to it. So, in general Amon Amarth gets a thumbs up. They are what, melodic death metal? Who else is doing stuff like that. I am really starting to dig the harsh vocals on top of some of the more majestic instrumentation where do I find more stuff like that? (I already know I’m not a huge fan of the symphonic stuff though, that’s a little too over the top for me.)

Ok, now I guess I need to talk about Opeth. I want to like Opeth so much. I really really do. And when they are doing their heavy stuff I REALLY like them. But then they transition into the softer stuff and they sound like Creed and I kind of can’t handle it. I have sat down to listen to Blackwater Park 5 times and each time I keep turning it off about halfway through to put on Mastodon or Bolt Thrower or Slayer instead. I like the proggy arty idea, I would very much like to hear more bands that do very heavy death metal sounding things that are very progressive like that (I kinda liked Gojira and the little I have heard of Between the Burried and Me I have enjoyed, they are also going to get a full listen this weekend) but… Maybe I just need a different Opeth album? Do they do harder than Blackwater Park? Because that one isn’t working for me at all.

Ok, so that’s it for this week I think.