# Teach your brats some manners, you pricks! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 29, 2005, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teach-your-brats-some-manners-you-pricks/306018 "2005-05-29T20:43:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2005, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teach-your-brats-some-manners-you-pricks/306018/61 "2005-05-31T16:52:47Z")
Well Hentor, the expectation in our house is that polite, reasonable behavior is the default expectation, in other words, we aren’t going to bribe you to do your chores and to clean your room, you ARE going to do those things, and with a minimum of whining too. However, we have also made it abundantly clear to our son (11) that we love him and want to do nice things for him, and that if he behaves himself, we WILL do those things. Rather then being a reward for a specific action, treats and the like are a general reward for a pattern of good behavior. If he’s been misbehaving we won’t go get ice cream or go to the movies because of his misbehaviors, but when he is acting as he should, nice things happen fairly regularly. ---
**Author:** ![GLWasteful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f05b48/32.png) [@GLWasteful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GLWasteful)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2005, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teach-your-brats-some-manners-you-pricks/306018/62 "2005-05-31T17:09:59Z")
> [@Incubus](#): > > (i.e. I will give you a cell phone/gas money/etc if you stop cutting class/doing drugs/shooting people). Well, I hesitate to speak for anyone else, but I can assure you that I would have stopped shooting people for a little gas money. And for the promise of a car I would have started burying the ones I’d already shot. Waste ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2005, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teach-your-brats-some-manners-you-pricks/306018/63 "2005-05-31T17:11:03Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > Well Hentor, the expectation in our house is that polite, reasonable behavior is the default expectation, in other words, we aren’t going to bribe you to do your chores and to clean your room, you ARE going to do those things, and with a minimum of whining too. > > However, we have also made it abundantly clear to our son (11) that we love him and want to do nice things for him, and that if he behaves himself, we WILL do those things. Rather then being a reward for a specific action, treats and the like are a general reward for a pattern of good behavior. If he’s been misbehaving we won’t go get ice cream or go to the movies because of his misbehaviors, but when he is acting as he should, nice things happen fairly regularly. Good for you! Exactly as I said. For some families, these expectations evolve as mutual, trusted expectations. Were it to start breaking down for some reason, one good strategy would be to systematize it with specific goals and specific rewards and punishments. Don’t forget that praise, positive statements, and signs of affection are also reinforcers (more often than not) and rewards. Hopefully these are not begrudged to children as well. However, these have a value dependent on the larger context of the existing relationship. Part of the problem, also, is that some parents pay attention only when their child misbehaves. Often, one of the first steps of parent training is to have the parent “catch the child being good,” and praise and socially reinforce the observed positive behavior. The goal with any formal, systematized behavioral system between parents and children is for it to fade from use as it becomes no longer necessary, and the standard practice becomes one such as you ( **Weirddave** ) describe - you both have persisting expectations of one another that function to shape and elicit desired behaviors on both sides. ---
**Author:** ![phall0106](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/phall0106/32/5934_2.png) [@phall0106](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phall0106)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2005, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teach-your-brats-some-manners-you-pricks/306018/64 "2005-05-31T17:30:36Z")
> [@Brynda](#): > > Not one single person to watch your child for the hour or two it takes to go to the doctor? Sorry, I am not buying it. It seems to me that everyone should have at least one babysitter they can call on if need be. No friends? No moms of your kid’s friends? No neighborhood kids? I’ve been there and done that too many times to count. Just because you’ve never been in that situation, doesn’t mean that others haven’t either. Isolation sucks. No available friends (what few I had at the time all worked), and no family members I could trust (and certainly could not trust the pot-head in-laws to watch my kids). Then-hubby worked a job at minimum wage (this was 20 years ago, but even then minimum wage wasn’t shit) and we didn’t have enough money to buy the stuff we really needed, let alone buy stuff like a baby sitter. Medical Assistance (which paid for the drs. visits) wouldn’t cover daycare… ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2005, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teach-your-brats-some-manners-you-pricks/306018/65 "2005-05-31T20:25:28Z")
> [@phall0106](#): > > I’ve been there and done that too many times to count. Just because you’ve never been in that situation, doesn’t mean that others haven’t either. > > Isolation sucks. No available friends (what few I had at the time all worked), and no family members I could trust (and certainly could not trust the pot-head in-laws to watch my kids). Then-hubby worked a job at minimum wage (this was 20 years ago, but even then minimum wage wasn’t shit) and we didn’t have enough money to buy the stuff we really needed, let alone buy stuff like a baby sitter. Medical Assistance (which paid for the drs. visits) wouldn’t cover daycare… I don’t doubt that these cases occur - especially when money’s tight, it’s very difficult to manage these things. However, I still don’t see them as the doctor’s responsibility. Many times bad things happen, and it’s unfair, and they’re not due to your doing. But it’s still your responsibility to figure something out. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2005, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teach-your-brats-some-manners-you-pricks/306018/66 "2005-05-31T20:40:00Z")
> [@GLWasteful](#): > > Well, I hesitate to speak for anyone else, but I can assure you that I would have stopped shooting people for a little gas money. > > And for the promise of a car I would have started burying the ones I’d already shot. Heck, I probably would have _started_ shooting people if I got a car in high school. Darn kids today with their gangs and their cell phones… ---
**Author:** ![C3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/c3/32/3108_2.png) [@C3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C3)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2005, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teach-your-brats-some-manners-you-pricks/306018/67 "2005-05-31T22:19:48Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > I don’t doubt that these cases occur - especially when money’s tight, it’s very difficult to manage these things. However, I still don’t see them as the doctor’s responsibility. Many times bad things happen, and it’s unfair, and they’re not due to your doing. But it’s still your responsibility to figure something out. I don’t think anyone’s saying that it’s the doctor’s _responsibility_, but if a doctor is in private practice, he’s the purveyor of a small business. If he wants to be profitable, he has to think about things like marketing and customer service. Unless a doctor is a phenomenal diagnostician or some obscure specialist, he’s going to be in competition with a lot of competent doctors. In some cities, I may have a choice of hundreds of doctors who can successfully diagnose a UTI or say I have an ulcer. I’m going to go with the one who offers a nice office, professional front office staff, and is welcoming to me and my child. There are many doctors out there who think what they are doing is magic or that they’re the only doctor in existence. When I go to the doctor, I’m paying for a service and I’ll take my money to one who offers the best service. Since there seem to be many people who have to (or want to) bring their kid to the doctor’s office, it seems that a good businessperson would capitalize on that. If a doctor doesn’t want kids there, all he has to do is be rude to the people who bring their kids. I’m sure they’ll stop coming to his office and word will get around. And **Brynda** , I think I’m in the same position as **Hokkaido Brit** , in that I’m an expat who is _very_ far away from home. We don’t have any family near us and the friends we have all work. My son’s too young to be left with a random neighborhood kid. My husband could take off work when I need to go to the doctor (which isn’t very often), but instead, I chose a doctor who is friendly to my son and provides toys. She’s the one who gets my money and she’s the one I recommend to friends. She doesn’t _have_ to provide those services, but I think it’s good for her business that she does. Like I said before, if there was another competent doctor who offered evening hours, that service may very well sway me to take my business elsewhere. It’s capitalism, baby! ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2005, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teach-your-brats-some-manners-you-pricks/306018/68 "2005-05-31T22:21:52Z")
Have you watched “Nanny 911”? I’ve seen several, mostly identical shows: children are running riot while over-extended Mom yells at them ineffectually and Dad had checked out, at least mentally and emotionally if not physically, too. And what does Nanny prescribe for the parents? Such shocking behaviors as: Paying attention to your child, making eye contact when you talk with him. Have consist rules. Have an established punishment – time outs – and follow through when needed. Stand up to your children and insist they understand that the ADULTS ARE IN CHARGE. Have a routine schedule: times to get up, eat meals, play, nap, bedtimes and so forth. Even the worst of the hellions seem to turn around to an amazing degree in just days once the parents follow the rules – shocking, eh? Of course, what’s really shocking is that these so-called adults needed to be told such basic, simple rules of child care. Maybe child care should become a mandatory course at HS. And not just theory, but time spent caring for a child. Maybe your ‘final’ is having to provide total supervision of a loaner child for 24 hrs. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2005, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teach-your-brats-some-manners-you-pricks/306018/69 "2005-06-01T03:39:08Z")
> [@Amazon Floozy Goddess](#): > > Wow. Some real brat stories here. > > I think the ripping up of the bamboo was the one that pissed me off the most. Partly because bamboo takes so long to grow, and partly because the brats had complete disregard and disrespect for a living thing. If I had ever done that as a kid - Holy Hannah. That would have benn it for me. It does? When I took horticulture in high school, my teacher told us that bamboo grows quite fast-he told us a story about how some tribe or another would torture prisoners by cutting bamboo stalks to the roots, staking the prisoner out over them for a week or so. Then, the bamboo would grow and tear into their backs. ---
**Author:** ![Hokkaido\_Brit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/d26b3c/32.png) [@Hokkaido\_Brit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hokkaido_Brit)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2005, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teach-your-brats-some-manners-you-pricks/306018/70 "2005-06-01T03:55:06Z")
> [@C3](#): > > I don’t think anyone’s saying that it’s the doctor’s _responsibility_, but if a doctor is in private practice, he’s the purveyor of a small business. If he wants to be profitable, he has to think about things like marketing and customer service. Unless a doctor is a phenomenal diagnostician or some obscure specialist, he’s going to be in competition with a lot of competent doctors. In some cities, I may have a choice of hundreds of doctors who can successfully diagnose a UTI or say I have an ulcer. I’m going to go with the one who offers a nice office, professional front office staff, and is welcoming to me and my child. There are many doctors out there who think what they are doing is magic or that they’re the only doctor in existence. When I go to the doctor, I’m paying for a service and I’ll take my money to one who offers the best service. Since there seem to be many people who have to (or want to) bring their kid to the doctor’s office, it seems that a good businessperson would capitalize on that. If a doctor doesn’t want kids there, all he has to do is be rude to the people who bring their kids. I’m sure they’ll stop coming to his office and word will get around. > > And **Brynda** , I think I’m in the same position as **Hokkaido Brit** , in that I’m an expat who is _very_ far away from home. We don’t have any family near us and the friends we have all work. My son’s too young to be left with a random neighborhood kid. My husband could take off work when I need to go to the doctor (which isn’t very often), but instead, I chose a doctor who is friendly to my son and provides toys. She’s the one who gets my money and she’s the one I recommend to friends. She doesn’t _have_ to provide those services, but I think it’s good for her business that she does. Like I said before, if there was another competent doctor who offered evening hours, that service may very well sway me to take my business elsewhere. It’s capitalism, baby! Yes, I am not even saying a doctor’s office “should entertain” my kid for the entire length of my visit. Just the few minutes it takes me to have an injection, or internal, or drilling, or whatever procedure makes it impossible for me to hold the baby or chase after the kid who is running away. The office who has staff who are willing to be humane about these situations will get me back again, and more of my money. And this is even more of a hijack, but expats sometimes have an even harder job getting help - in Japan for example, there is NO custom of neighbourhood teens babysitting. And don’t get me into the whole “responsibility” thing. Where we used to live, there was a school bus for kindy, but then money got tight and the bus service was withdrawn. I suggested to the other mothers at our stop that we car pool - an idea they had never heard of, but they thought it was great. A couple of days before the bus service ended, I asked who would be in on it. And was told that they all were, except me. Because it was too much responsibility to have a "foreign " kid in their cars. So they were all going to carpool but I was on my own. That was five years ago and it still hurts. And Back To The OP… As a parent, I am grateful to members of the public who take time to correct my kids’ behaviour, if it is done in a non-abusive manner. Kids get much more impact from a stranger bringing them up short, and it hopefully hammers home the lessons that I have been trying to get into them. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2005, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teach-your-brats-some-manners-you-pricks/306018/71 "2005-06-01T13:07:59Z")
**Starving** --ITA. the most disturbing thing about Nanny is that these adults have to be told this stuff. Um–were they raised in labs somewhere? I dont’ get it. I don’t even like kids all that much–I don’t dislike them, but don’t love always being around them (my three excepted!)–and I didn’t babysit very much and I know this stuff. How self absorbed are these people? **Hokkaido** --unintentionally, you just completely destroyed the premise I have held about the exquisite politeness of the Japanese. Stereotypes can be both good and bad–I had always assumed that Japanese people were extremely courteous, especially to foreigners. Oh, well. I think yours is a special, rare case-I’m sure that there are many women in your situation, but doubt that the OP was thinking of expats when he posted. I have known women here(USA) who bitch about not finding sitters so that they can do X…yeah, with a high school with 4000 kids in it, 1/2 of them girls, you can’t find someone for an hour. I think it has alot to do with the martyrdom that motherhood can become for some women…but that’s another thread. ---
**Author:** ![Amazon\_Floozy\_Goddess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/779978/32.png) [@Amazon\_Floozy\_Goddess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amazon_Floozy_Goddess)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2005, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teach-your-brats-some-manners-you-pricks/306018/72 "2005-06-01T14:37:33Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > It does? When I took horticulture in high school, my teacher told us that bamboo grows quite fast-he told us a story about how some tribe or another would torture prisoners by cutting bamboo stalks to the roots, staking the prisoner out over them for a week or so. Then, the bamboo would grow and tear into their backs. Huh… I’d heard that one of the reasons potential destruction of bamboo forests was such a threat because bamboo grew slowly and would take a long time to grow again. Not that it really matters, anyway, the kids were still destroying a living thing that will have to be replaced. ---
**Author:** ![Bongmaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Bongmaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bongmaster)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2005, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teach-your-brats-some-manners-you-pricks/306018/73 "2005-06-01T15:18:45Z")
Gak…threads like these scare me. I found out recently that I am going to have a child of my own sometime in January and I find myself imaging myself in these situations. In the perfect little world in my mind all it will take is one glance from me to reign in my kids bad behavior…I have a feeling reality will differ a bit from my mental picture. Still, I can’t imagine myself tolerating behavior like that from my kids, no way. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2005, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teach-your-brats-some-manners-you-pricks/306018/74 "2005-06-01T15:38:38Z")
> [@Amazon Floozy Goddess](#): > > Huh… I’d heard that one of the reasons potential destruction of bamboo forests was such a threat because bamboo grew slowly and would take a long time to grow again. > > Not that it really matters, anyway, the kids were still destroying a living thing that will have to be replaced. All right, y’all made me go searching. It looks like **Guin** is right: [http://www.bamboogarden.com/The%20Beauty%20of%20Bamboo.htm](http://www.bamboogarden.com/The%20Beauty%20of%20Bamboo.htm) > [@](#): > > One cannot actually see bamboo grow, but with a growth rate of over 12 inches a day, the bamboo can actually achieve measurable growth while the observer sits nearby having a cup of coffee or tea. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2005, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teach-your-brats-some-manners-you-pricks/306018/75 "2005-06-01T16:06:49Z")
Of course, most of this thread has been assuming that the child is normal, psychologically speaking. Yes, a ‘normal’ child can and should be socialized. OTOH, there are conditions, like ADHD and, um, I’m forgetting the exact name, but something like ‘oppositional defiant disorder’ which makes controlling your childs behavior enormously harder. Like comparing a ride on a bucking bronco to a ride on a placidly plodding pony. When I was a teenager, our next door neighbor had a child with that oppositional thing. For years I had nightmares that _I_ would have a child like that. As I saw it, my choices would eventually come down to murder vs. suicide. ---
**Author:** ![Fionn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Fionn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fionn)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2005, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teach-your-brats-some-manners-you-pricks/306018/76 "2005-06-01T16:07:52Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > **Starving** --ITA. > > the most disturbing thing about Nanny is that these adults have to be told this stuff. Um–were they raised in labs somewhere? From the episodes I’ve seen, all the parents seem to convince themselves their kids are a special case. They always seem to brush off the first suggestions of setting rules or enforcing limits with “You don’t know what’s going on.” ---
**Author:** ![Mint\_Julep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc79bd/32.png) [@Mint\_Julep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mint_Julep)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2005, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teach-your-brats-some-manners-you-pricks/306018/77 "2005-06-01T17:17:43Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > …or the blood bank offering you a gift certificate for your donation,… Whoa, Whoa Whoa…I have been giving my precious life juice away when there are gift certificates to be had? (Kidding) ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2005, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teach-your-brats-some-manners-you-pricks/306018/78 "2005-06-01T17:25:16Z")
> [@Fionn](#): > > From the episodes I’ve seen, all the parents seem to convince themselves their kids are a special case. They always seem to brush off the first suggestions of setting rules or enforcing limits with “You don’t know what’s going on.” How sad and clueless. We all know what is going on (assuming normal children, of course)–in-attention, negative attention, inconsisten attention to discipline etc. My kids were always thrilled to go out with me. Know why? I gave them my complete attention at the museum etc–there is so much to do at home, chorewise, that I didn’t pay that much attention to them. They got more and better quality attention out in public places, most times. There is the other side of the coin–parents need to relay expectations of behavior to the kids–what they can touch and not touch; boundaries, respect for other people’s property (and hearing). ---
**Author:** ![C3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/c3/32/3108_2.png) [@C3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C3)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2005, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teach-your-brats-some-manners-you-pricks/306018/79 "2005-06-01T22:06:31Z")
> [@](#): > > There is the other side of the coin–parents need to relay expectations of behavior to the kids–what they can touch and not touch; boundaries, respect for other people’s property (and hearing). My sister-in-law (really great mom of four very polite boys) had a great rule - whenever they were in a store, the boys had to keep their hands in their pockets. Not only were they not able to touch anything, but it’s really hard to make that big of a ruckus with your hands in your pockets. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2005, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teach-your-brats-some-manners-you-pricks/306018/80 "2005-06-01T22:07:50Z")
Bravo! Excellent idea–one smart mom there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teach-your-brats-some-manners-you-pricks/306018.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teach-your-brats-some-manners-you-pricks/306018.md?page=5)