# Teacher Orders Kid to Lose Romney Shirt **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 4, 2012, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-orders-kid-to-lose-romney-shirt/636714 "2012-10-04T17:04:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2012, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-orders-kid-to-lose-romney-shirt/636714/81 "2012-10-07T03:16:21Z")
> [@j666](#): > > The comment of the teacher it was a Democratic school > > That the other students are mad at the t-shirt student for getting a teacher in trouble > > That the teacher - or was it an aide? - tried to write on the shirt > > I don’t remember all the details, but the stories were just a little odd. It’s Philly city school where the student population is 1/3 black, 1/3 Latino and 1/3 white and the teacher in question is black. Of course the teacher is convinced it was a “Democratic school” and there are lots of other students defending the teacher. What’s strange about it? ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2012, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-orders-kid-to-lose-romney-shirt/636714/82 "2012-10-07T13:41:39Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Yeah, unless the shirt said, “Elect Mitt Romney: He’ll Keep the Niggers in their Place,” this is pretty inexcusable. > > Of course, if that was what was on the students shirt, what does it say about the teachers who were fine with it? This language has no place on the Dope, not even in the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2012, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-orders-kid-to-lose-romney-shirt/636714/83 "2012-10-07T14:12:03Z")
I could see maybe having a “no political t-shirt” rule\*, but the teacher’s comments make it clear that it’s just about the t-shirt’s message. I do think this teacher could just as easily be a Romney supporter. \*I personally would think it was stupid, but I understand that schools have a lot of leeway here, and a political t-shirt could cause a fight. But, as the article says, there were no problems with the t-shirt until she got to that class. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2012, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-orders-kid-to-lose-romney-shirt/636714/84 "2012-10-07T14:24:07Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > It’s Philly city school where the student population is 1/3 black, 1/3 Latino and 1/3 white and the teacher in question is black. Of course the teacher is convinced it was a “Democratic school” and there are lots of other students defending the teacher. What’s strange about it? See, I do have a problem with any teacher thinking that a public school can have a political party. Then again, she is apparently not very bright. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2012, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-orders-kid-to-lose-romney-shirt/636714/85 "2012-10-07T14:54:56Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > This language has no place on the Dope, not even in the Pit. No, people freaking out over a word, particularly people to whom it doesn’t refer, rather than the context has no place here. We’re supposed to be intelligent. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2012, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-orders-kid-to-lose-romney-shirt/636714/86 "2012-10-07T18:50:11Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > See, I do have a problem with any teacher thinking that a public school can have a political party. Then again, she is apparently not very bright. Of course there is a problem there. But it’s not “strange”. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2012, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-orders-kid-to-lose-romney-shirt/636714/87 "2012-10-07T21:02:04Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > It’s Philly city school where the student population is 1/3 black, 1/3 Latino and 1/3 white and the teacher in question is black. Of course the teacher is convinced it was a “Democratic school” and there are lots of other students defending the teacher. What’s strange about it? > [@BigT](#): > > See, I do have a problem with any teacher thinking that a public school can have a political party. Then again, she is apparently not very bright. That’s my point; I grew up in as single party state as you can get, and I never heard anything like that. And I don’t remember a student ever defending a teacher. Meh. Maybe the other kids are just jealous. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-orders-kid-to-lose-romney-shirt/636714/88 "2012-10-08T12:38:27Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > I wanted to get in on the punning action, so went to the wiki article on geometry to look for geometry terms which hadn’t been used. It’s become such acute thread with all the punning. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-orders-kid-to-lose-romney-shirt/636714/89 "2012-10-08T15:37:00Z")
> [@42fish](#): > > It’s become such acute thread with all the punning. It’s been looked at from every angle. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-orders-kid-to-lose-romney-shirt/636714/90 "2012-10-08T23:29:10Z")
> [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](#): > > As far as I know, schools in fact can NOT have a policy prohibiting shirts with political messages, under _Tinker v. Des Moines_. As long as it’s not obscene and it’s not likely to disrupt the classroom, the kids have an actual right to wear such shirts. So it makes the teacher’s actions doubly bad - illegally suppressing free speech and doing it on the fly with personal viewpoint discrimination! Yet schools are free to ban shirts with a message, writing, or image of any kind (ie only solid color shirts allowed). Or just have a uniform policy and make all students wear the exact same shirt. Cases like this being one of the many reasons while school uniforms can be a very attractive option for administrators. > [@Anaamika](#): > > Agreed. I had a teacher start talking about abortion. It’s been twenty years and I’ll never forget what happened when I raised my hand and tried to state my viewpoint…Teachers are people, too, and they do stupid things, too. Now it’s news every time they do. I had a health teacher bring in a speaker who described how she used to work in an abortion clinic and personally saw infants being delivered alive by doctors then drowned in a bucket. :rolleyes: And then there was the social studies teacher who matter of factly told us that in China babies born with Downs Syndrome never make it out of the delivery room. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-orders-kid-to-lose-romney-shirt/636714/91 "2012-10-10T07:49:32Z")
Well, along with [Non-Euclidian Geometry](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-euclidian_geometry), the teacher in question appears to also be an expert in [the Non-Apology Apology](http://news.yahoo.com/teen-returns-school-romney-t-shirt-flap-132419966.html): > [@](#): > > “I’m very sorry for all the chaos and negative attention that has surrounded the school in the past couple of weeks,” she wrote. “What I meant as a light and humorous remark during class has developed into a huge conflict between students, faculty, parents and neighbors. My words were never meant to belittle Ms. Pawlucy, or cause any harm, and I truly regret that we have come to this point.” That’s not even close to an apology. It’s just bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-orders-kid-to-lose-romney-shirt/636714/92 "2012-10-10T11:43:57Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Yet schools are free to ban shirts with a message, writing, or image of any kind (ie only solid color shirts allowed). Or just have a uniform policy and make all students wear the exact same shirt. Cases like this being one of the many reasons while school uniforms can be a very attractive option for administrators. Being English, I had to wear a school uniform. My history teacher did ask whether a classmate knew the identify of the chap he had emblazoned on his coat (Che). Not really too keen on Che myself given his authoritarian attitude to rock music. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-orders-kid-to-lose-romney-shirt/636714/93 "2012-10-10T13:01:23Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > This language has no place on the Dope, not even in the Pit. Chill out, Jack. It’s a hypothetical. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-orders-kid-to-lose-romney-shirt/636714/94 "2012-10-10T13:12:39Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Well, along with [Non-Euclidian Geometry](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-euclidian_geometry), the teacher in question appears to also be an expert in [the Non-Apology Apology](http://news.yahoo.com/teen-returns-school-romney-t-shirt-flap-132419966.html): > > That’s not even close to an apology. It’s just bullshit. Agreed. The proof is in the pudding. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-orders-kid-to-lose-romney-shirt/636714/95 "2012-10-10T15:46:03Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Could you be more specific about who’s in the idiot gallery? I want to know whether I should be offended by being included in it, or by being left out of it. > > > [@Bricker](#): > > > > Nah. “The wcked flee where no man pursueth.” See, **Bricker** , this is why you’re so frustrating to debate! A person asks for a lists of persons on the (obviously Nixonian) “Idiot Gallery” list, and you respond with some bible verse! Are they the wicked, or the man pursuing? I’m starting to believe that you’re a lawyer. And the teacher should have the boots put to her, [“medium style”.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=5p7ywIk4rl4#t=12s) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-orders-kid-to-lose-romney-shirt/636714/96 "2012-10-10T17:22:14Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Chill out, Jack. It’s a hypothetical. [**Cartooniverse** has a lot of trouble telling the difference between fiction and reality.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=355044) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-orders-kid-to-lose-romney-shirt/636714/97 "2012-10-10T17:48:05Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > See, **Bricker** , this is why you’re so frustrating to debate! A person asks for a lists of persons on the (obviously Nixonian) “Idiot Gallery” list, and you respond with some bible verse! Are they the wicked, or the man pursuing? I’m starting to believe that you’re a lawyer. > > And the teacher should have the boots put to her, [“medium style”.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=5p7ywIk4rl4#t=12s) The idiot gallery is everyone who smarmily hinted or outright said that this was somehow a “gotcha” thread, as though “gotcha” was some sort of generic insult with a highly flexible meaning, if an individual does not know if he did that or not, how likely is it that my further commentary will be helpful? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-orders-kid-to-lose-romney-shirt/636714/98 "2012-10-10T18:01:30Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Well, along with [Non-Euclidian Geometry](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-euclidian_geometry), the teacher in question appears to also be an expert in [the Non-Apology Apology](http://news.yahoo.com/teen-returns-school-romney-t-shirt-flap-132419966.html): > > That’s not even close to an apology. It’s just bullshit. I find non-apology apologies highly irritating too— but that said, I find it easier to believe that the teacher was basically teasing her in (what she thought was) a humorous way, and wasn’t literally ordering her to leave the classroom. I had a lot of teachers that were pretty informal in the classroom and said things jokingly that would’ve sounded really bad taken out of context. I can imagine one of them doing something similar if, say, a student was wearing the jersey of a sports team they didn’t like. “Get out of my class!” The media narrative, along with most of the comments in this thread, suggest this was an egregious attempt at censorship, but it strikes me more as a teacher doing a poor job kidding around. The girl was embarrassed (allegedly) by it and her family saw an opportunity to Take A Stand Against Liberals, and here we are. The “Democratic school” and “KKK” shit (assuming she really said those) were dumb remarks, but I’d still tend to consider them ham-handed attempts at jokes. I heard a lot worse shit from some of my teachers. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-orders-kid-to-lose-romney-shirt/636714/99 "2012-10-10T18:31:41Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I find non-apology apologies highly irritating too— but that said, I find it easier to believe that the teacher was basically teasing her in (what she thought was) a humorous way, and wasn’t literally ordering her to leave the classroom. If this is her style of teasing then she should be fired for being such an idiot. 1. Political. Never tease a student’s political or religious views. 2. Telling a student to get out. Never make a student feel unwelcomed in your class unless it is a safety issue. 3. Maybe because I’m male but if I told a female student to take off the shirt I would lose my credential and be sued before I even finished that sentence. Bottom line: She got caught when someone called he on her shit. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-orders-kid-to-lose-romney-shirt/636714/100 "2012-10-10T19:36:00Z")
She could very well be an idiot. I don’t know anything about her, or whether she’s a generally good teacher who’s well-respected or a complete moron that nobody likes. I just remember my own experiences in school, where I had some teachers who were all business and others who were a lot more informal and said things that were joking, teasing, sarcastic, etc. The latter were often a lot more more pleasant to be taught by, because they seemed almost human. In this case, I just don’t find it credible that the teacher was _seriously_ ordering the girl to leave the class or remove her shirt. But yes, she sounds like kind of an idiot. \* Scene: Suburban Chicago, 1975\* “ **Vinyl** , if you get out of your chair one more time I’ll tape you to it!” \* Next day’s headline:\* **TEACHER THREATENS TO BIND STUDENT TO CHAIR** **Angry parents demand answers “I just wanted to go wee-wee!” says tearful boy, 6** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-orders-kid-to-lose-romney-shirt/636714.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-orders-kid-to-lose-romney-shirt/636714.md?page=6)