# Teacher Placed On Leave For Hanging Foreign Flags **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 24, 2006, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-placed-on-leave-for-hanging-foreign-flags/370043 "2006-08-24T14:47:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2006, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-placed-on-leave-for-hanging-foreign-flags/370043/1 "2006-08-24T14:47:18Z")
I figure the reactions to something this stupid are going to get this thread into the Pit, so I might as well just put it there… [Teacher Placed On Leave For Hanging Foreign Flags](http://www.thedenverchannel.com/education/9726287/detail.html?rss=den&psp=news) > [@](#): > > LAKEWOOD, Colo. – A Jefferson County geography teacher was placed on paid administrative on the second day of school for hanging several flags from other countries in his classroom. > > Eric Hamlin said the flags were part of a world geography lesson plan at Carmody Middle School and refused to take them down. The school’s principal escorted Hamlin out of class Wednesday morning after he refused to remove the flags of China and Mexico. > > The school district placed him on administrative leave for insubordination, citing a Colorado law that makes it illegal to display foreign flags permanently in schools… ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2006, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-placed-on-leave-for-hanging-foreign-flags/370043/2 "2006-08-24T14:52:30Z")
Wow. That’s \*exceptionally \* stupid. I’m very nearly impressed. ---
**Author:** ![kinoons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a698b9/32.png) [@kinoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kinoons)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2006, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-placed-on-leave-for-hanging-foreign-flags/370043/3 "2006-08-24T15:22:20Z")
I’m not sure what’s more disturbing, Colorado having a law about not displaying foreign flags permanently in a classroom (I’m sure there is no purpose of displaying flags in a classroom, none at all :rolleyes: ), or someone was dumb enough to try and enforce it. Seriously, does anyone think something like this through before they pull the trigger? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2006, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-placed-on-leave-for-hanging-foreign-flags/370043/4 "2006-08-24T15:42:43Z")
I’m not sure I understand why they would even have a geography curriculum if they have a problem with the display of foreign flags. ---
**Author:** ![hawksgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ed655f/32.png) [@hawksgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawksgirl)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2006, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-placed-on-leave-for-hanging-foreign-flags/370043/5 "2006-08-24T15:46:28Z")
Then I guess the Spanish teacher’s room doesn’t have a Spainish or Mexican flag, and the French teacher can’t display a French flag. I hope those teachers don’t go rotting our kids’ minds with their commie ideas and teach them about different cultures or anything like that. That is fucking ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2006, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-placed-on-leave-for-hanging-foreign-flags/370043/6 "2006-08-24T15:51:03Z")
They were up for two days and that’s _permanent_? Hell, all he has to do is take them down over Christmas break and put them back up after break and they’re not permanent. Does this principal figure the flag police are going to stake out the school? Dumbass. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2006, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-placed-on-leave-for-hanging-foreign-flags/370043/7 "2006-08-24T15:54:22Z")
“…a Colorado law that makes it illegal to display foreign flags _ **permanently** _ in schools.” What did he do that was permanent? Did he superglue them to the walls, or what? ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2006, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-placed-on-leave-for-hanging-foreign-flags/370043/8 "2006-08-24T15:55:04Z")
So hanging flags for two days is “permanent”? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2006, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-placed-on-leave-for-hanging-foreign-flags/370043/9 "2006-08-24T15:59:47Z")
What’s stupid is, if you read the law, it makes an exception for flags that are displayed temporarily for a lesson plan or student project. So, yeah, I don’t see why the principal was concerned the teacher was breaking the law there. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2006, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-placed-on-leave-for-hanging-foreign-flags/370043/10 "2006-08-24T16:06:27Z")
And some people wonder why American kids know nothing about world geography. I must say, this is almost so stupid i can’t even get angry or worked up about it. The notion that foreign flags can’t be displayed in a geography classroom is just so “Bizzarro World” that i’m almost having trouble believing the OP’s link isn’t a hoax of some sort. For those who are interested, i’ve found the text of what appears to be the relevant Colorado law. Subsection 4 (a) (IV) seems to be the most directly applicable: > [@](#): > > TITLE 18 CRIMINAL CODE : ARTICLE 11 OFFENSES INVOLVING DISLOYALTY : PART 2 ANARCHY - SEDITION : 18-11-205. > > 18-11-205. Unlawful to display flag - exceptions. > > (1) Any person who displays any flag other than the flag of the United States of America or the state of Colorado or any of its subdivisions, agencies, or institutions upon any state, county, municipal, or other public building or adjacent grounds within this state commits a class 1 petty offense. > > (2) Any person who displays any flag other than the flag of the United States of America or the state of Colorado or any of its subdivisions, agencies, or institutions in any place where it is likely to be viewed by the public or a substantial portion thereof, knowing that under the circumstances then existing such display is likely to cause a breach of the peace, commits a class 1 petty offense. > > (3) “Flag”, as used in this section, means any flag, ensign, banner, standard, colors, or replica or representation thereof which is an official or commonly recognized symbol of a particular nation, state, movement, cause, or organization. > > (4) (a) This section does not apply to: > > (I) The display of the flag of the United Nations or the flag of a foreign nation displayed to identify persons officially representing such foreign nation or the property or premises of the person or nation; > > (II) The display of an appropriate flag upon ceremonial or commemorative occasions proclaimed by the president of the United States, the governor of the state of Colorado, the board of county commissioners of any county, or the mayor or other chief executive officer of a city or town within this state; > > (III) The display of the flag of any adjacent state with the flag of the state of Colorado at the ports of entry weigh stations, in recognition of the joint state port operation; or > > (IV) The display of any flag or representation thereof described in subsection (1) of this section that is part of a temporary display of any instructional or historical materials not permanently affixed or attached to any part of the buildings or grounds described in subsection (1) of this section. > > (b) This subsection (4) shall be an affirmative defense. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2006, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-placed-on-leave-for-hanging-foreign-flags/370043/11 "2006-08-24T16:08:50Z")
Plus, and I cannot stress this enough, it has occurred to me that flags on display for two days do not fall under any reasonable definition of “permanent.” Now that that is cleared up, what would happen if he displayed pictures of flags? After all, the map is not the territory. On preview, I see that \*\*mhendo \*\*has provided the answer. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2006, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-placed-on-leave-for-hanging-foreign-flags/370043/12 "2006-08-24T16:17:18Z")
Now I want to go to Colorado. That guy is actually going to have an areest record for “Anarchy-Sedition.” I am jealous as hell. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2006, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-placed-on-leave-for-hanging-foreign-flags/370043/13 "2006-08-24T16:21:05Z")
[QUOTE=saoirse] Now I want to go to Colorado. That guy is actually going to have an areest record for “Anarchy-Sedition.” I am jealous as hell. [/QUOTE] No. He wasn’t arrested or charged. He was put on leave by the school district for refusing to take down the flags. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2006, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-placed-on-leave-for-hanging-foreign-flags/370043/14 "2006-08-24T16:23:07Z")
Once somebody reads 18-11-205 (4) (a) (IV) to the court, and they dismiss charges against Eric Hamlin with apologies, perhaps the court will take the opportunity to give a lesson to the unnamed Carmody Middle School principal and Jeffco Public Schools spokeswoman Lynn Setzer on the subject of frivolous charges, the purpose behind the law and how it does not apply in this case, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2006, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-placed-on-leave-for-hanging-foreign-flags/370043/15 "2006-08-24T16:24:03Z")
Section 2 is interesting, and would seem to prohibit a private person from displaying a flag on his or her own property that will be seen by the public, if that is likely to cause a breach of the peace. It makes me think of the Nazi on Maytide street and his White Power and swastika flags that he flies from his porch in a mixed race neighborhood. I wonder if it would be numbnuts like that for which this law was intended, at least in part. I don’t like it, and I’d hope that we as a people would be able to tolerate being exposed to flags of other nations. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2006, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-placed-on-leave-for-hanging-foreign-flags/370043/16 "2006-08-24T16:26:53Z")
So, a Virginia flag counts. Wow. So, does Colorado still think of itself as a sovereign nation? Does this mean that the First Amendment to the US Constitution is not applicable to Colorado? They go spurs that jingo jingo jingo. Tris ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2006, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-placed-on-leave-for-hanging-foreign-flags/370043/17 "2006-08-24T16:36:13Z")
[QUOTE=Polycarp] Once somebody reads 18-11-205 (4) (a) (IV) to the court, and they dismiss charges against Eric Hamlin with apologies, perhaps the court will take the opportunity to give a lesson to the unnamed Carmody Middle School principal and Jeffco Public Schools spokeswoman Lynn Setzer on the subject of frivolous charges, the purpose behind the law and how it does not apply in this case, etc. [/QUOTE] Well, again, the guy hasn’t been charged with anything. He’s been placed on administrative leave for disobeying instructions by his principal. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2006, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-placed-on-leave-for-hanging-foreign-flags/370043/18 "2006-08-24T16:40:31Z")
Welcome to Bizarro World, where teaching geography in geography class gets you suspended. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2006, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-placed-on-leave-for-hanging-foreign-flags/370043/19 "2006-08-24T16:43:28Z")
I’m not getting the outrage. The guy was placed on leave for subordination. IOW, the principal told him to take the flags down and he refused. The principle appears to have believed that having the flags up was breaking the law. Now maybe he was wrong, or maybe he was right but the law is stupid. IMO that doesn’t matter, your supervisor tells you to do something, your response is not “No.” Not unless it is something you feel so strongly about that you’re willing to risk losing your job over it. At the end of the day, I think you’ll find that regardless of how the flag issue shakes out, the administrative leave will be upheld. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2006, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-placed-on-leave-for-hanging-foreign-flags/370043/20 "2006-08-24T16:46:32Z")
[QUOTE=Triskadecamus] SDoes this mean that the First Amendment to the US Constitution is not applicable to Colorado? [/QUOTE] They certainly seemed to think so pre Romer v Evans… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-placed-on-leave-for-hanging-foreign-flags/370043.md?page=2)