# Teacher Placed On Leave For Hanging Foreign Flags **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 24, 2006, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-placed-on-leave-for-hanging-foreign-flags/370043 "2006-08-24T14:47:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-placed-on-leave-for-hanging-foreign-flags/370043/81 "2006-08-25T20:31:40Z")
My reading of the incident from [this page](http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/9726287/detail.html?subid=22100484&qs=1;bp=t) is that the principal put the teacher on leave because the principal wanted the flags of **China** and **Mexico** (specifically cited) to be removed, and the teacher refused. Which means it’s not even the stupid law that’s at fault, but the stupid xenophobia of the principal that’s to blame. What kind of a moron does it take to have their sense of nationalism/patriotism/whatever threatened by the sight of a _piece of cloth?_ ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-placed-on-leave-for-hanging-foreign-flags/370043/82 "2006-08-25T21:16:50Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] I can see their reasoning for banning such representations. Doesn’t mean I agree with this reasoning, but I can see where they are coming from. It prevents the politicalization of school walls. I know I’d be pissed if my tax dollars were supporting a school with Aztlan banners on the walls. I’d like to know the makeup of the Colorado Legislature when this bill was passed. It had to be Republican, but by what majority, and how recently. [/QUOTE] I suspect that it was tied to the flag burning rule in the same section of law. I also think that they actually tried to exclude the classroom from the law, though the whole “temporary vs. permanent” thing muddied the waters. What flag is ever truly displayed permanently? Ten seconds and a pair of scissors is all it takes to take a flag down. Even a mural can be undone in 10 minutes with paint roller. I see a law like this as a clear attempt to restrict political expression. If I want to protest at city hall, and bring along a [flag](http://www.allstates-flag.com/flags/military/pow-mia.htm) I would be in violation of this law, and would be subject to imprisonment. There’s no classroom exception for this. If any person flies a flag on government property that’s not one of the approved flags, they are in violation of this law. Of course, nobody would DARE attempt to enforce the law, not with that flag, at least. If you’re some stupid hippie, or a dirty foreigner carrying the wrong flag, promoting the wrong message, watch out! ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-placed-on-leave-for-hanging-foreign-flags/370043/83 "2006-08-25T21:39:05Z")
I’d say the principal had better watch his back lest the Martinets’ Union starts picketing outside the school gates for bringing its members into disrepute. ---
**Author:** ![Wensleydale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ce7236/32.png) [@Wensleydale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wensleydale)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-placed-on-leave-for-hanging-foreign-flags/370043/84 "2006-08-25T21:49:23Z")
As a teacher and reading through the comments (as well as some of the other threads on the dope) I count myself lucky that I do not have to live under what appear to be the extremely oppresive and stupid laws of the USA. As an outsider looking in it often seems as if the USA is one of the more conservative countries out there and not the great bastion of freedom as it would like to portray itself. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-placed-on-leave-for-hanging-foreign-flags/370043/85 "2006-08-25T22:11:43Z")
[QUOTE=Wensleydale] As a teacher and reading through the comments (as well as some of the other threads on the dope) I count myself lucky that I do not have to live under what appear to be the extremely oppresive and stupid laws of the USA. As an outsider looking in it often seems as if the USA is one of the more conservative countries out there and not the great bastion of freedom as it would like to portray itself. [/QUOTE] Agreed! I mean, we count ourselves lucky that you don’t live here too. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-placed-on-leave-for-hanging-foreign-flags/370043/86 "2006-08-25T23:04:47Z")
[QUOTE=Cheesesteak] I suspect that it was tied to the flag burning rule in the same section of law. I also think that they actually tried to exclude the classroom from the law, though the whole “temporary vs. permanent” thing muddied the waters. [/QUOTE] That’s pretty much the way I read it. To think otherwise would be to attribute stupidity to the Legislature that may not be warranted…yet. > [@](#): > > If you’re some stupid hippie, or a dirty foreigner carrying the wrong flag, promoting the wrong message, watch out! But of course! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2006, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-placed-on-leave-for-hanging-foreign-flags/370043/87 "2006-08-26T00:46:52Z")
[QUOTE=Wensleydale] As an outsider looking in it often seems as if the USA is one of the more conservative countries out there and not the great bastion of freedom as it would like to portray itself. [/QUOTE] It was a perfectly fine country until the conservatives got their grubby mitts on it… ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2006, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-placed-on-leave-for-hanging-foreign-flags/370043/88 "2006-08-26T01:09:24Z")
[QUOTE=rjung] It was a perfectly fine country until the conservatives got their grubby mitts on it… [/QUOTE] Hard to argue with that. 1861 _was_ a pretty shitty year. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2006, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-placed-on-leave-for-hanging-foreign-flags/370043/89 "2006-08-26T20:44:07Z")
[QUOTE=rjung] It was a perfectly fine country until the conservatives got their grubby mitts on it… [/QUOTE] In this, personally, I’d have to include the Democrats, who are a great deal further to the right even of our own Conservative Party. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2006, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-placed-on-leave-for-hanging-foreign-flags/370043/90 "2006-08-26T21:21:36Z")
[QUOTE=mhendo] Huh? The law says:I was under the impression that we are talking about a public school here. I was also under the impression that the buildings that make up a public school would qualify under the list of properties presented here. Am i incorrect? [/QUOTE] The law clearly does address the quesiton of schools; there is, after all, this section in it: > [@](#): > > (4) (a) This section does not apply to: > … > (IV) The display of any flag or representation thereof described in subsection (1) of this section that is part of a temporary display of any instructional or historical materials not permanently affixed or attached to any part of the buildings or grounds described in subsection (1) of this section. > > (b) This subsection (4) shall be an affirmative defense. So the folks designing the law anticipated this sort of misreading, and went out of their way to make it clear that they weren’t talking about schools. The principal’s reading of the law was unambiguously wrong; that shouldn’t be debated by anyone who has read the law carefully. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2006, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-placed-on-leave-for-hanging-foreign-flags/370043/91 "2006-08-26T21:23:06Z")
On rereading those several posts, I’m unclear, **mhendo** , whether you’re suggesting that the principal’s reading is defensible. If that’s not what you’re saying, my apologies. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2006, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-placed-on-leave-for-hanging-foreign-flags/370043/92 "2006-08-26T22:31:30Z")
[QUOTE=Left Hand of Dorkness] On rereading those several posts, I’m unclear, **mhendo** , whether you’re suggesting that the principal’s reading is defensible. If that’s not what you’re saying, my apologies. Daniel [/QUOTE] No, i’m completely in agreement with you about this: the law was intended to make an exception in the case of schools, and the principal fucked up. I was merely questioning **silenus** ’s contention that “the law says nothing about a classroom.” ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2006, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-placed-on-leave-for-hanging-foreign-flags/370043/93 "2006-08-26T23:02:04Z")
It was more a problem with my phrasing than it was of \*\*mhendo’\*\*s understanding and position. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2006, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-placed-on-leave-for-hanging-foreign-flags/370043/94 "2006-08-27T02:55:17Z")
[QUOTE=mhendo] No, i’m completely in agreement with you about this: the law was intended to make an exception in the case of schools, and the principal fucked up. I was merely questioning **silenus** ’s contention that “the law says nothing about a classroom.” [/QUOTE] Okay, sorry–I think I read them too quickly on the first go-round. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2006, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-placed-on-leave-for-hanging-foreign-flags/370043/95 "2006-08-27T09:01:42Z")
Two questions spring to mind here: 1. Why is there even a law about this on the books? 2. How could flying the flag of another country be considered “disloyal”? If we live in a democratic society, don’t we have the _right_ to be disloyal if we so choose? Ok, flying the Nazi Swastika in a Jewish neighbourhood could be seen as disturbing the peace- but, as another poster pointed out, there are already laws on the books covering disturbances of the peace. Since everything is offensive to someone, perhaps they should ban the flying of the US Flag since it might offend Southerners, and the flag of Colorado might offend Native Americans… ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2006, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-placed-on-leave-for-hanging-foreign-flags/370043/96 "2006-08-27T16:48:10Z")
Hmmm… would be interesting to know whether the law as it stands is one passed relatively recently in close to its present form, or if it built upon amendments to an older statute originating in WW1 or WW2 days, a time when folks were seriously hysterical about “loyalty” and found nothing contradictory about it. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2006, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-placed-on-leave-for-hanging-foreign-flags/370043/97 "2006-08-27T18:46:27Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] That said, the administrative leave will stand, because it isn’t the courts business. The teacher was insubordinate. That was strictly an internal discipline decision by the school district. The principal may get a letter of reprimand placed in his file, but that’s about it. In my opinion, both the teacher **and** the principal are idiots here. [/QUOTE] Not necessarily. Depending on the contract, refusing to do what a principal tells you to do may not be insubordination if it relates to academic freedom re: implementing a curriculum as long as the teacher is not violating the law. Notice that the principal (erroneously) based the leave on the teacher violating Colorado’s flag laws. ---
**Author:** ![Will\_Repair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a698b9/32.png) [@Will\_Repair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Will_Repair)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2006, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-placed-on-leave-for-hanging-foreign-flags/370043/98 "2006-08-28T19:03:59Z")
Good thing he didn’t display the French flag or he would be facing charges of treason. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-placed-on-leave-for-hanging-foreign-flags/370043.md?page=4)