# Teacher Reveals Former Prostitution in Support of Craigslist Adult Services Rights - Loses Job **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 28, 2010, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-reveals-former-prostitution-in-support-of-craigslist-adult-services-rights-loses-job/555352 "2010-09-28T14:47:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![theR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@theR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theR)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-reveals-former-prostitution-in-support-of-craigslist-adult-services-rights-loses-job/555352/41 "2010-09-28T17:08:55Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > In what way did Ms. Petro violate this, or in what way does this section support her removal? I have not seen the specific background investigation form, but I’m willing to bet it does not require the applicant to reveal any uncharged criminal conduct. I am willing to bet it merely asks about convictions; I’ll allow it might ask about arrests. I am certain it does not ask about uncharged past criminal activity. The portions quoted read like a typical background check/disclosure policy, and usually the only uncharged criminal conduct most employers even consider asking about is drug use. I think you’re on the right track that it probably did not directly violate anything related to the background investigation. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-reveals-former-prostitution-in-support-of-craigslist-adult-services-rights-loses-job/555352/42 "2010-09-28T17:16:22Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Should she lose her job? > > You bet. > > Us parents have rights and many of us go to great lengths to protect our young from negative influences. > > To allow a teacher who so mater of factly discloses her experience can result in several negative outcomes. > > 1. My kid may disrespect the teacher and thus his/her education. > > 2. My daughter may view prostitution as a viable alternative for quick cash later on given the tacit > > 3. My son may develop a disrespect for women. > > 4. My son may more readily use the services of prostitutes later on givin the tacit approval. > > None of which is a forgone conclusion. > > Regardless, there’s no seatbelt for these outcomes. You could level those claims at most anyone. Teachers are human. They have pasts and may have done things that are not legal (maybe smoking a joint or having a beer before they were 21 I suspect is pretty common). Teachers’ views are also probably all over the place as any large group would be. Some positions of theirs you might agree with, some not. By your measure any teacher that does not agree with you 100% on all issues could have a negative impact, in your view, on your children. If the teacher in question is telling her students to do illegal things or if this teacher was regaling her students of the wonders of prostitution you’d have a point. If, as I suspect, she was dutifully teaching the curriculum then her personal opinions are not an issue. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-reveals-former-prostitution-in-support-of-craigslist-adult-services-rights-loses-job/555352/43 "2010-09-28T17:17:01Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Or, let’s go for something more directly relavent… > > > [@](#): > > > > Guy writes a letter saying that he was a bit of a late bloomer in college. One day his buddies take up a collection, take him to Vegas (where prostitution is illegal) and get him a hooker. It turns out that this hooker- Jade- is the proverbial hooker with a heart of gold. They end up hanging out all weekend, and he learns about her life. He learns that she chose this profession freely, and is saving up to finish her education. > > > > Guy ends up making friends with Jade and her family. Eventually he falls in love and marries her sister and he’s got a life as a family man now. Jade has since finished her education and is working as a teacher as well, having long left her old life. But guy doesn’t think Jade was harmed by her brief career as a prostitute. Indeed, guy is thinks she benefited from being able to fund her education. He thinks prostitution should be legal. > > If we heard this, do you think he’d get fired? I bet at best he just get a good talking to about being more discreet. Certainly he wouldn’t get a lot of “what kind of role model are you?” talk. We recognize that men are sexual beings, and it doesn’t make us question the morality of a single man seeking out sex. In any case, I know plenty of situations where men are _actually sleeping with their students_ and it doesn’t merit more than a reshuffle to a new school. Not all that relevant. Your man in the example committed but a single illegal act. Ms. Petro’s admission is to an on-going, months-long series of acts. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-reveals-former-prostitution-in-support-of-craigslist-adult-services-rights-loses-job/555352/44 "2010-09-28T17:29:57Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Not all that relevant. Your man in the example committed but a single illegal act. Ms. Petro’s admission is to an on-going, months-long series of acts. So imagine a guy who smoked pot his junior and senior year of high school. He gave it up in college and four years later earns his teaching degree and becomes a teacher. In his off-time this guy advocates for the legalization of marijuana. That more relevant? ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-reveals-former-prostitution-in-support-of-craigslist-adult-services-rights-loses-job/555352/45 "2010-09-28T17:32:47Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Her past, which she “hopes” to never repeat, is also a legal risk for the school, can you imagine the lawsuit if she was accused of misbehavior? Once a dirty whore, always a dirty whore, huh? How you gonna keep them on the farm once they’ve seen Karl Hungus? She works with little kids. There is no intersection between “teaching finger painting” and “experimenting in college with having guys over from Craig’s list for money.” Maybe if she, I don’t know, had a job in charge of a crew of hot sweaty guys in the navy her past might indicate that she is more likely to commit work-related misconduct. But having a healthy appetite for sex with adult males has absolutely nothing to do with her job as an elementary school teacher. She is no more likely to commit misconduct than the guy who admits that when he was in college he’d download music off Napster. If your children disrespect their teacher because of her past, you need to teach them that adults sometimes have sometimes made decisions in their past that you don’t respect, but you need to respect who they are now. A good teacher who teaches you your subject deserves respect no matter who they are outside of the classroom. Learning that nobody is perfect is a great lesson for kids. If your daughter sees prostitution as a viable way to make money…maybe that is because prostitution is a viable way to make money. She’s going to realize that eventually one way or another. It’s your job, as a parent, to teach her about her values and expectations and make those values strong enough that they aren’t overwhelmed by someone she once met occasionally as a small child. Likewise with your son. I promise you, when he is of an age where he is thinking about prostitutes, a teacher he once had as a kid is going to be nowhere as big of an influence as the drunk college girls throwing themselves at him, the quality sex education he is going to get off the internet, and the Girls Gone Wild DVDs his friends are going to loan him. And if your son somehow loses respect for women because a woman he knew as a kid once was involved in paid Craig’s List encounters- maybe that is your fault for teaching hm that a woman’s value is based on her degree of sexual purity and that a minor sexual transgression in the past makes her tainted for life. Just a thought. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-reveals-former-prostitution-in-support-of-craigslist-adult-services-rights-loses-job/555352/46 "2010-09-28T17:38:42Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Her past, which she “hopes” to never repeat, is also a legal risk for the school, can you imagine the lawsuit if she was accused of misbehavior? Actually, I can’t imagine it. Well not a successful one. I’m not sure how a past experience as a hooker would lead to a lawsuit against the school. Lets say she turns tricks again - that might result in her arrest, but I don’t see what the liability to the school would be. Or if you’re suggesting that if she is involved in any impropriety with the school children, well, then the school would be sued anyway, and the fact she used to be a hooker isn’t going to be relevant unless you can show that ex-part-time-hookers have a predeliction to impropriety with children, and the school should have known this. And I don’t think you can prove that very easily. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-reveals-former-prostitution-in-support-of-craigslist-adult-services-rights-loses-job/555352/47 "2010-09-28T17:45:51Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > > [@Bricker](#): > > > > Not all that relevant. Your man in the example committed but a single illegal act. Ms. Petro’s admission is to an on-going, months-long series of acts. > > So imagine a guy who smoked pot his junior and senior year of high school. He gave it up in college and four years later earns his teaching degree and becomes a teacher. > > In his off-time this guy advocates for the legalization of marijuana. > > That more relevant? Right on point, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-reveals-former-prostitution-in-support-of-craigslist-adult-services-rights-loses-job/555352/48 "2010-09-28T17:50:18Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > If your children disrespect their teacher because of her past, you need to teach them that adults sometimes have sometimes made decisions in their past that you don’t respect, but you need to respect who they are now. A good teacher who teaches you your subject deserves respect no matter who they are outside of the classroom. Learning that nobody is perfect is a great lesson for kids. Correct. Now, if she had been a private school teacher in a school which holds that prostitution is inherently immoral, and further requires all teachers regardless of subject to evince the school’s view of morality… sure, fire away. But a public school teacher, elementary school, art class? No way. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-reveals-former-prostitution-in-support-of-craigslist-adult-services-rights-loses-job/555352/49 "2010-09-28T17:52:30Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > If the teacher in question is telling her students to do illegal things or if this teacher was regaling her students of the wonders of prostitution you’d have a point. She went on the record defending prostitution using herself as a model of how one can successfully enter the profession and leave it. That reiforces the false impression that many girls have going into prostitution that they won’t get trapped . There’s a saying that the government has no business in the bedrooms of the nation. True, but if you make your bedroom experience public, then you’ve made it their business. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-reveals-former-prostitution-in-support-of-craigslist-adult-services-rights-loses-job/555352/50 "2010-09-28T17:56:24Z")
**Bricker** Although I think you’d be surprised what the DOI form DOES ask about (ie, whether you have any outstanding parking tickets, even if not yet overdue; whether you’ve ever been the subject of a search warrant; whether you’ve ever been named in an accusatory instrument, including as an “unnamed co-conspirator”; whether you’ve ever associated with anyone _reputed_ to be affiliated with organized crime), you’re right in that it does not ask about uncharged criminal conduct. [http://www.nyc.gov/html/doi/downloads/pdf/biq\_01\_10\_v10.pdf](http://www.nyc.gov/html/doi/downloads/pdf/biq_01_10_v10.pdf) I was misremembering from my own experience there, and conflating it with immigration matters where you must answer questions about uncharged conduct involving moral turpitude, mea culpa. At any rate, I took a quick look the the [UFT contract for NYC](http://www.seethroughny.com/Portals/0/Emp72SchoolContracts/Documents/06022010NewYorkCityT.pdf) and it seems that you can be suspended pending investigation, at full pay and no loss of benefits, for up to 6 months, (around p 112-120 of the contract) which is appears to be what happened here. It’s probably not fair to say she “lost” her job, at least not yet. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-reveals-former-prostitution-in-support-of-craigslist-adult-services-rights-loses-job/555352/51 "2010-09-28T17:57:29Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > She went on the record defending prostitution using herself as a model of how one can successfully enter the profession and leave it. That reiforces the false impression that many girls have going into prostitution that they won’t get trapped . I guess you would ban anyone who had quit drugs from teaching, then. I mean telling kids you can smoke crack and later stop is a negative message that will tempt them to fire up the pipe. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-reveals-former-prostitution-in-support-of-craigslist-adult-services-rights-loses-job/555352/52 "2010-09-28T18:06:04Z")
> [@villa](#): > > > [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > > > She went on the record defending prostitution using herself as a model of how one can successfully enter the profession and leave it. That reiforces the false impression that many girls have going into prostitution that they won’t get trapped . > > I guess you would ban anyone who had quit drugs from teaching, then. I mean telling kids you can smoke crack and later stop is a negative message that will tempt them to fire up the pipe. No, I would not want to ban any former drug users. But if the teacher acknowledged former drug use and said it was okay and should be permitted , you bet I would want to fire his ass. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-reveals-former-prostitution-in-support-of-craigslist-adult-services-rights-loses-job/555352/53 "2010-09-28T18:07:18Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > > > If the teacher in question is telling her students to do illegal things or if this teacher was regaling her students of the wonders of prostitution you’d have a point. > > She went on the record defending prostitution using herself as a model of how one can successfully enter the profession and leave it. That reiforces the false impression that many girls have going into prostitution that they won’t get trapped . > > There’s a saying that the government has no business in the bedrooms of the nation. True, but if you make your bedroom experience public, then you’ve made it their business. What she does on her own time (as long as it is legal) and what she chooses to advocate is her own business. Teachers are citizens and free to express their opinions. If not then where do you draw the line? Who gets to drawn the line where someone feels the teacher’s opinion, not being their own, demands the dismissal of the teacher? If you can show that somehow this crept into the classroom then you have a point. I would not be happy if my child’s math teacher was a KKK member but unless I can see how his/her KKK membership affects them doing the job I am not sure it is relevant (e.g. if the KKK math teacher treated minorities in the class differently then that is a relevant issue). ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-reveals-former-prostitution-in-support-of-craigslist-adult-services-rights-loses-job/555352/54 "2010-09-28T18:08:35Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > No, I would not want to ban any former drug users. But if the teacher acknowledged former drug use and said it was okay and should be permitted , you bet I would want to fire his ass. What if they never did drugs but advocated for legalizing drugs in their off time? (There are many people in this category) ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-reveals-former-prostitution-in-support-of-craigslist-adult-services-rights-loses-job/555352/55 "2010-09-28T18:09:22Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > She went on the record defending prostitution using herself as a model of how one can successfully enter the profession and leave it. That reiforces the false impression that many girls have going into prostitution that they won’t get trapped. No, she is reinforcing the very real impression that one woman went into prostitution and didn’t get trapped. Sometimes reality doesn’t line up perfectly with your morals’n’values. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-reveals-former-prostitution-in-support-of-craigslist-adult-services-rights-loses-job/555352/56 "2010-09-28T18:11:13Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > **Bricker** Although I think you’d be surprised what the DOI form DOES ask about (ie, whether you have any outstanding parking tickets, even if not yet overdue; whether you’ve ever been the subject of a search warrant; whether you’ve ever been named in an accusatory instrument, including as an “unnamed co-conspirator”; whether you’ve ever associated with anyone _reputed_ to be affiliated with organized crime), you’re right in that it does not ask about uncharged criminal conduct. > > [http://www.nyc.gov/html/doi/downloads/pdf/biq\_01\_10\_v10.pdf](http://www.nyc.gov/html/doi/downloads/pdf/biq_01_10_v10.pdf) That is a bit more exhaustive, and does surprise me, but still - as you implicitly concede - it does not appear to reach Ms. Petro’s situation. > [@](#): > > At any rate, I took a quick look the the [UFT contract for NYC](http://www.seethroughny.com/Portals/0/Emp72SchoolContracts/Documents/06022010NewYorkCityT.pdf) and it seems that you can be suspended pending investigation, at full pay and no loss of benefits, for up to 6 months, (around p 112-120 of the contract) which is appears to be what happened here. It’s probably not fair to say she “lost” her job, at least not yet. Well, to the extent that her job was teaching art to kids, as opposed to an administrative function of some kind, she has at least temporarily lost it. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-reveals-former-prostitution-in-support-of-craigslist-adult-services-rights-loses-job/555352/57 "2010-09-28T18:14:28Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > > [@Bricker](#): > > > > Not all that relevant. Your man in the example committed but a single illegal act. Ms. Petro’s admission is to an on-going, months-long series of acts. > > So imagine a guy who smoked pot his junior and senior year of high school. He gave it up in college and four years later earns his teaching degree and becomes a teacher. > > In his off-time this guy advocates for the legalization of marijuana. > > That more relevant? I think you are still missing a key ingredient: sex. No matter how analogous your example is to the story in the OP, there was no sex involved in your example. Sex as a subject is something that squicks out parents of young kids (i.e. they fear their kids might be exposed to a story with a sexual component), and when combined the fact that prostitution is illegal, that makes this a topic most parents don’t want to talk to their kids about. I think the only way to make a truly analogous example is to say that there was a guy teacher who 3 years ago was a gigolo for some extended period of time, and now he has stopped doing that and is teaching art to young kids, and he comes out in support of making prostitution legal. I don’t think the above guy would face a different outcome than this lady. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-reveals-former-prostitution-in-support-of-craigslist-adult-services-rights-loses-job/555352/58 "2010-09-28T18:19:49Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > > [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > > > No, I would not want to ban any former drug users. But if the teacher acknowledged former drug use and said it was okay and should be permitted , you bet I would want to fire his ass. > > What if they never did drugs but advocated for legalizing drugs in their off time? (There are many people in this category) Good question. I don’t think there are many advocates in that category though. I would have to take a position on this on a case by case basis, considering the age group he teaches and exactly how he promotes legalization. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-reveals-former-prostitution-in-support-of-craigslist-adult-services-rights-loses-job/555352/59 "2010-09-28T18:23:23Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > > [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > > > She went on the record defending prostitution using herself as a model of how one can successfully enter the profession and leave it. That reiforces the false impression that many girls have going into prostitution that they won’t get trapped. > > No, she is reinforcing the very real impression that one woman went into prostitution and didn’t get trapped. > > Sometimes reality doesn’t line up perfectly with your morals’n’values. It has nothing to do with morals/values. When I was young there was a successful business man with a grade 6 education who went around telling people that they didn’t need to go to college. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-reveals-former-prostitution-in-support-of-craigslist-adult-services-rights-loses-job/555352/60 "2010-09-28T18:25:45Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > > > Her past, which she “hopes” to never repeat, is also a legal risk for the school, can you imagine the lawsuit if she was accused of misbehavior? > > Once a dirty whore, always a dirty whore, huh? Those were her words, not mine. “I hope to never again make the choice to trade sex for cash” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-reveals-former-prostitution-in-support-of-craigslist-adult-services-rights-loses-job/555352.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-reveals-former-prostitution-in-support-of-craigslist-adult-services-rights-loses-job/555352.md?page=4)