# Teacher Reveals Former Prostitution in Support of Craigslist Adult Services Rights - Loses Job **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 28, 2010, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-reveals-former-prostitution-in-support-of-craigslist-adult-services-rights-loses-job/555352 "2010-09-28T14:47:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-reveals-former-prostitution-in-support-of-craigslist-adult-services-rights-loses-job/555352/141 "2010-10-01T18:15:20Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Bottom line the issue here is some uptight parents have their panties in a wad. Nothing more. Yes but their panties are not in a twist without reason. ---
**Author:** ![crazyjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f14d63/32.png) [@crazyjoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crazyjoe)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-reveals-former-prostitution-in-support-of-craigslist-adult-services-rights-loses-job/555352/142 "2010-10-01T18:35:14Z")
[QUOTE=villa;12969329Well yes, if you are caught, and if the state chooses to punish you. I think the punishment should also fit the crime as well. I don’t see this woman saying “I shouldn’t have been fined or imprisoned for being a hooker.” She’s not breaking a law **now**. The punishment is out of place. It would be the equivalent of Rosa Parks being punished not for sitting on the bus, but instead for giving a lecture 3 years later about how she sat at the front of the bus, and didn’t think it should be illegal for black folks to do that. And, to be honest, I would have been in favor of MLK and Rosa Parks getting off scott free too.[/QUOTE] Do you think that MLK, were he a public school teacher, would have kept his position? Fuck no, and for good reason. Regardless of the quality of teacher he would have been, he would have brought more scrutiny and more controversy and more disruptiveness into the lives of students then most schools are capable of handling, especially given their current budgets. It’s hard to make a compassrison to other forms of civil disobedience, because, for example, with weed, you can hold a smoke-rally where everyone tokes up, which is directly related to your cause. With racial discrimination, you can host a sit-in at a whites-only place of business. Prostituion? What are you supposed to do? Get a bunch of hookers to try to sell their wares out in the open? Like it or not, people who work with children are going to be much more thoroughly vetted, especially for deviant sexual behavior. Selling sex for money is onesuch deviant behavior, and therefore she has been at least temporarily removed from her access to children. She isn’t saying she regets the behavior, and in fact she wants this behavior to become legal, so I completely understand the school’s response in removing her from her duties. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-reveals-former-prostitution-in-support-of-craigslist-adult-services-rights-loses-job/555352/143 "2010-10-01T18:46:24Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Which is just proof of how deep the stupid goes. So its deeply stupid to not want your children to be taught by a teacher who was a hooker? It may be a bit irrational but its not deeply stupid, espeically when that teacher STILL advocates for leaglizing prostituion. > [@](#): > > More proof of how deep the stupid goes.. Yes, the fear of homosexual contagion is irrational and actually stupid but I don’t see the connection people who don’t want homosexual teachers teaching their kids because they are homosexual and people who don’t want a former prostitute who advocates for the elgalization of prostitution teaching their kids simply because the teacher is advocating the legalization of prostitution. thats a bit of a leap in my opinion. > [@](#): > > I really think we need to stop pandering to and legitimizing ignorance & stupidity. In teh case of the homophobic parent, you’re right, in the case of parents that don’t want their kids taught by someone who believes strongly enough in the legalization of prostitution taht she risks her job over it, not so much. > [@](#): > > Another lousy analogy, and not accurate either. > > First, drug abuse can kill you, and that would be true even if it were entirely legal. Prostitution is only dangerous because it is illegal. If it were legal, it would be as safe…really, safer, than random promiscuity. Safety for the participants is not the only factor I am considering. To extend the homosexual analogy. I have no fear that my son is going to decide he likes dick because he once had a homosexual teacher, on the other hand if my son was homosexual, having a homosexual teacher (i.e. role model) might keep him from blowing his brains out one day. On the other hand I can see my son deciding its a lot easier to suck dick for money than dig ditches all day long and that having a teacher that argued for the legalization of prostitution might make this more acceptable for him no matter how I raised him, I don’t see any silver lining in that scenario. > [@](#): > > Second, there is a difference between advocating for women (and men) to become prostitutes, and advocating for the legalization of prostitution so that those who engage in it are safer and healthier, along with society as a whole. (As well as making it easier and simpler to stop trafficking.) Same thing with drugs… big difference between advocating for the legalization of drugs and advocating that people take them. > > And please don’t trot out the tired and worthless argument that tolerating a thing means you are actively promoting it, that is a giant pile of steaming crap when applied to condoms vs. abstinence, drgs, prostitution, etc. It’s about being a sane, enlightened society that recognizes the wide range of human activity and the waste and destruction that follows from trying to control and stop activities that have no victim and that people very much desire to engage in. Regulate, monitor, tax… there is a thousand times more harm done to everyone when vice is illegal than when it is legal. That we do not apply the painful lesson of Prohibition across the board boggles my mind. I don’t have a problem with someone who does not come in contact with my children advocating for the leaglization of prostitution (heck you can probably make a reasoably good argument why society is no worse off and is probably better off with legalized prostituion (or heroin use for that matter), I have a problem with the person who teaches my children advocating for the legalization of prostitution. > [@](#): > > And while I really can’t take the time to go there in depth at this moment, I’d just like to say, as a woman, that almost all sex for almost all of history was prostitution. Prostitutes are just smart and strong enough to take control of the exchange. But sex-for-stuff is the fundamental heart of all sexual relationships. It’s only been in recent decades, with the advent of real birth control and women choosing careers and making their own money that sexual relationships have lost some of that. > > I know it’s distasteful. But it’s a fact. So it’s really annoying to listen to people freak out about it. What self-deluding crap. I disagree. My ancestors for generations had arranged marriages, marriage was more than a trade of sexual favors for financial security, it was often the seal on a business or political relationship. Sure marriage was sometimes a woman tolerating the sexual advances of her husband for financial security but I don’t think that was the case anywhere near all of the time. You act as if women were almost universally gold diggers or are sold into marriage. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-reveals-former-prostitution-in-support-of-craigslist-adult-services-rights-loses-job/555352/144 "2010-10-01T18:55:58Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Everyone needs to eat and to have a roof over their head. Throughout history, and throughout virtually all cultures, women have had two, sometimes three choices to make sure they ate and had a roof: > > 1. Wife (Husband feeds and clothes and provides a roof for her and the children she will bear as a result of what HE gets in return: sex. Whether they like or love each other is not the question. You are distorting the marriage relationship beyond recognition. Men get much more out of marriage than sex. If that’s all they got out of marraige very few people would get married. You may be projecting how you view relationships and men in general onto the world but most women i know don’t take more thana passing glance at a man’s wallet before sleeping with him. > [@](#): > > What it really is is a daughter taking control of her own life, which is not ok with daddy. The distinctions between “good girls” and whores are completely manufactured for the purposes of men, to control women. I don’t really care about girls engaging in discreet casual sex. I have a problem with women who advocate for the legalization of prostitution teaching my children. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-reveals-former-prostitution-in-support-of-craigslist-adult-services-rights-loses-job/555352/145 "2010-10-01T19:05:35Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > > [@BayouHazard](#): > > > > Maybe if it were a less dangerous and stigmatized activity, it wouldn’t be so crazy-making to the hookers, no? It may only be as unhealthful as it is in context.. > > How wise of you to recognize that. The only reason it’s icky is because society tells us it is icky. > > We don’t need to stop it, we need to stop stigmatizing it. Sure lets make it safer but why stop stigmatizing it? Unlike you, I do see the harm that a permissive attitude towards prostitution could create. I don’t think it would be a good thing if our young girls thought of prostitution as a totally legitimate career choice to make coming out of high school or if our young women viewed every sexual relationship as an exchange for value. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-reveals-former-prostitution-in-support-of-craigslist-adult-services-rights-loses-job/555352/146 "2010-10-01T19:21:41Z")
Is prostitution a felony in New York? If it’s a felony, I’m leaning towards firing. If it’s a misdemeanor, I’m very firmly in the “so what?” camp. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-reveals-former-prostitution-in-support-of-craigslist-adult-services-rights-loses-job/555352/147 "2010-10-01T19:46:31Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Is prostitution a felony in New York? If it’s a felony, I’m leaning towards firing. If it’s a misdemeanor, I’m very firmly in the “so what?” camp. The reasoning here escapes me completely. The activity is the same, no matter how the government has classified the crime. It’s not like you don’t know the nature of the crime and the only thing you have to go on is whether it was a misdemeanor or a felony…so what’s the thinking? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-reveals-former-prostitution-in-support-of-craigslist-adult-services-rights-loses-job/555352/148 "2010-10-01T19:50:22Z")
It shouldn’t be treated differently just because it’s a sex crime. However, it should be treated based on the relative severity of the crime as defined by the New York legislature. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-reveals-former-prostitution-in-support-of-craigslist-adult-services-rights-loses-job/555352/149 "2010-10-01T20:15:51Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Is prostitution a felony in New York? If it’s a felony, I’m leaning towards firing. If it’s a misdemeanor, I’m very firmly in the “so what?” camp. In New York prostitution is a class B misdemeanor. ([cite](http://prostitution.procon.org/view.background-resource.php?resourceID=753#1)) A class B misdemeanor is punishable by up to 90 days in jail or a $500 fine. The statute of limitations on a class B misdemeanor in New York is two years. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-reveals-former-prostitution-in-support-of-craigslist-adult-services-rights-loses-job/555352/150 "2010-10-01T20:23:13Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > A class B misdemeanor is punishable by up to 90 days in jail or a $500 fine. Checking a little further I am seeing differing levels of punishment for a class B misdemeanor in New York from the max being 90 to 180 days. Even less sure on the fine. Not sure it matters overly much for this but if you must know someone else will have to dig it up. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-reveals-former-prostitution-in-support-of-craigslist-adult-services-rights-loses-job/555352/151 "2010-10-01T22:51:07Z")
Not concerned about the penalty, just the classification. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-reveals-former-prostitution-in-support-of-craigslist-adult-services-rights-loses-job/555352/152 "2010-10-01T23:52:09Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > It shouldn’t be treated differently just because it’s a sex crime. However, it should be treated based on the relative severity of the crime as defined by the New York legislature. This would be a case of my least favorite thing: answering the question “Why do you think X/Why is X so/Why X” with a slightly different wording that basically restates the same fact I’m trying to learn more about, as though I’m asking to have the statement itself clarified because I failed to comprehend its meaning. (Some may recall my battle with the library…) So let me try again, because I really want to understand. You are an employer. Your employee, in the past, committed the (victimless, non-violent) crime of prostitution, which is the act of taking money or other valuable consideration in exchange for sexual activities. Said employee has publicly admitted this, and actually been a bit vocal about not thinking it’s a bad thing, and that the law should be changed. You, her employer are asking yourself: “Should I fire this employee, now that I know she committed the non-violent victimless crime of taking money in exchange for sex some time in her past?” The additional factor you consider is: “How does the legislature rate this crime? Is it a felony or a misdemeaner?” and, as we know, if its a felony, you’ll probably fire. If it’s a misdemeaner you pretty much don’t care. So. WHY does the classification of the victimless non-violent crime the employee admitted committing in the past make any difference in your decision to fire the employee or not? Secondly, why would you consider firing the employee AT ALL? Thnk you in advance for your answer. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2010, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-reveals-former-prostitution-in-support-of-craigslist-adult-services-rights-loses-job/555352/153 "2010-10-02T01:30:52Z")
Jeez, some of you guys make it sound like a) she sucked $5 crackhead cock behind the 7/11 and b) she’s coming to class with dried splooge on her chin, telling the kids how awesome it all is. Care to inject a bit of sanity in there ? ---
**Author:** ![ajb867](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f14d63/32.png) [@ajb867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ajb867)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2010, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-reveals-former-prostitution-in-support-of-craigslist-adult-services-rights-loses-job/555352/154 "2010-10-02T02:38:36Z")
Somethings aren’t worth fighting for… ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2010, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-reveals-former-prostitution-in-support-of-craigslist-adult-services-rights-loses-job/555352/155 "2010-10-02T02:52:38Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > WHY does the classification of the victimless non-violent crime the employee admitted committing in the past make any difference in your decision to fire the employee or not? I’m not approaching this from a moral standpoint. I don’t live in New York and I don’t have kids. I’m approaching this from a “how should New York handle situations like this?” angle. It is my opinion that misdemeanor convictions, or public admissions of misdemeanors, should not be a bar to employment. It is my opinion that felony convictions, etc. should be such a bar. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2010, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-reveals-former-prostitution-in-support-of-craigslist-adult-services-rights-loses-job/555352/156 "2010-10-02T03:44:22Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I’m approaching this from a “how should New York handle situations like this?” angle. It is my opinion that misdemeanor convictions, or public admissions of misdemeanors, should not be a bar to employment. > > It is my opinion that felony convictions, etc. should be such a bar. You just did it again. Are you aware that you did it again and you’re amusing yourself at my expense, or are you genuinely not aware that you did it again? You told me the same thing three times, three different ways. I understand perfectly **what** your position is. What I’m asking you to explain, is _ **why** _ your position is that felony convictions should be a “bar” to employment? What purpose is served? What good is achieved? How is anything improved for anyone? Or are you indifferent to the idea of seeking benefit, and concerned only with maximizing the punishment and suffering of those who break the law, even without a conviction? ??? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2010, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-reveals-former-prostitution-in-support-of-craigslist-adult-services-rights-loses-job/555352/157 "2010-10-02T03:48:41Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > What I’m asking you to explain, is _ **why** _ your position is that felony convictions should be a “bar” to employment? Just to be clear and a nitpicker… Even if a felony conviction mattered (which in this case it is not even a felony) she was never convicted of anything. She admitted to a crime yes but for purposes of being fired is admission of a crime (past the statute of limitations) the same as a conviction of a crime? (I do not know and am not sure myself so really asking.) Before anyone says “Of course!” imagine you are chatting with co-workers and told them about the time you sold marijuana in college 20 years ago (you have long since given that up). I think that is a felony and you just admitted it so should you be fired on the spot for that admission? ---
**Author:** ![Dan\_Norder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4af34b/32.png) [@Dan\_Norder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dan_Norder)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-reveals-former-prostitution-in-support-of-craigslist-adult-services-rights-loses-job/555352/158 "2010-10-03T16:17:40Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > So its deeply stupid to not want your children to be taught by a teacher who was a hooker? Perhaps it’s not deeply stupid, but it is fairly ignorant and irrational. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > It may be a bit irrational but its not deeply stupid, espeically when that teacher STILL advocates for leaglizing prostituion. Basing part of the argument upon her expressing a personal and political opinion pushes it into the deeply stupid territory, however. You’re advocating thought crime, essentially. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-reveals-former-prostitution-in-support-of-craigslist-adult-services-rights-loses-job/555352/159 "2010-10-03T16:45:00Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Should she lose her job? > > You bet. > > Us parents have rights and many of us go to great lengths to protect our young from negative influences. > > To allow a teacher who so mater of factly discloses her experience can result in several negative outcomes. > > 1. My kid may disrespect the teacher and thus his/her education. > > 2. My daughter may view prostitution as a viable alternative for quick cash later on given the tacit > > 3. My son may develop a disrespect for women. > > 4. My son may more readily use the services of prostitutes later on givin the tacit approval. > > None of which is a forgone conclusion. > > Regardless, there’s no seatbelt for these outcomes. Good point. I know that I have personally made most of my adult decisions based on the morality of my 3rd grade teacher. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-reveals-former-prostitution-in-support-of-craigslist-adult-services-rights-loses-job/555352/160 "2010-10-03T17:31:07Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > > > I’m approaching this from a “how should New York handle situations like this?” angle. It is my opinion that misdemeanor convictions, or public admissions of misdemeanors, should not be a bar to employment. > > > > It is my opinion that felony convictions, etc. should be such a bar. > > What I’m asking you to explain, is _ **why** _ your position is that felony convictions should be a “bar” to employment? What purpose is served? What good is achieved? How is anything improved for anyone? Or are you indifferent to the idea of seeking benefit, and concerned only with maximizing the punishment and suffering of those who break the law, even without a conviction? I’m not saying they should be a bar to employment. I’m saying they should be a bar to employment as an _educator_. Committing a felony is _prima facie_ evidence of poor judgment. Educators are in a position where their judgment is more important than other workers, for reasons I presume you understand. In this particular case, of course, she wasn’t convicted, but she’s admitted in a public forum, under no apparent duress, that she engaged in proscribed conduct. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-reveals-former-prostitution-in-support-of-craigslist-adult-services-rights-loses-job/555352.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-reveals-former-prostitution-in-support-of-craigslist-adult-services-rights-loses-job/555352.md?page=9)