# Teacher Shortage? Says who? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 16, 2022, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-shortage-says-who/971702 "2022-09-16T23:45:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2022, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-shortage-says-who/971702/1 "2022-09-16T23:45:29Z")
In an article about the “phony trend” of quiet quitting in _The Atlantic,_ the author mentions the alleged teacher shortage, saying none of the education experts they talked to could confirm it. The need for school teachers might be the most predictable number in the US. After all, the government knows exactly how many children were born, and how old they are. When my wife and I graduated from high school in 1967, there was a hubbub about a teacher shortage. My wife promptly went to Ball State U, where her mom had trained to be a teacher before her. When she got her degree, she hit the streets in the middle of a glut of teachers. She applied everywhere in Indiana, and nobody was interested. She ended up in a termite-ridden elementary school in Sumter, South Carolina. The next year, with help from an aunt in Harlingen, Texas, she got a job in Mercedes, TX at a school where half her student were not native English speakers; she spoke no Spanish. Her aunt’s family were wonderful people, but the job was teacher Hell. She finished the year, came back to Indiana, and never taught again. I fear another generation of HS grads is going to get suckered like she did. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2022, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-shortage-says-who/971702/2 "2022-09-16T23:54:17Z")
> [@AskNott](#): > > In an article about the “phony trend” of quiet quitting in _The Atlantic,_ the author mentions the alleged teacher shortage, saying none of the education experts they talked to could confirm it. The need for school teachers might be the most predictable number in the US. Apparently not recently, due to [recent attempts to fix chronic understaffing problems with federal pandemic relief funds,](https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2022-09-15/teacher-shortages-are-real-but-not-for-the-reason-you-heard) which appears to be the driver of most of the current hiring crunches. > [@](#): > > Certainly, many schools have struggled to find enough educators. But the challenges are related more to hiring, especially for non-teaching staff positions. Schools flush with federal pandemic relief money are creating new positions and struggling to fill them at a time of low unemployment and stiff competition for workers of all kinds. […] > > Since well before the COVID-19 pandemic, schools have had [difficulty recruiting enough teachers](https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-science-business-health-education-40ac2a2ec38c893b7c7a8dd196ce8b29) in some regions, particularly in parts of the South. Fields such as special education and bilingual education also have been critically short on teachers nationwide. […] > > For starters, the pandemic kicked off the largest drop in education employment ever. […] > > Still, the problems are not as tied to teachers quitting as many have suggested. > > Teacher surveys have indicated many considered leaving their jobs. [They’re under pressure](https://apnews.com/article/teacher-stress-burnout-f7fa2b061a25849565148a39074722f2) to keep [kids safe from guns](https://apnews.com/article/gun-violence-education-arrests-chicago-race-and-ethnicity-e9c41cdd3127de2ed977cc93823e27e7), catch them up [academically](https://apnews.com/article/science-education-race-and-ethnicity-atlanta-ff46418c59af90132998817731fe166a) and deal with [pandemic challenges with mental health](https://apnews.com/article/mental-health-crisis-schools-768fed6a4e71d694ec0694c627d8fdca) and behavior. […] > > Quit rates in education rose slightly this year, but that’s true for the nation as a whole, and teachers remain far more likely to stay in their job than a typical worker. > > Hiring has been so difficult largely because of an increase in the number of open positions. Many schools indicated plans to use federal relief money to create new jobs, in some cases looking to hire even more people than they had pre-pandemic. Some neighboring schools are competing for fewer applicants, as enrollment in teacher prep program colleges has declined. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-shortage-says-who/971702/3 "2022-09-17T00:05:16Z")
> [@AskNott](#): > > When my wife and I graduated from high school in 1967, there was a hubbub about a teacher shortage. My wife promptly went to Ball State U, where her mom had trained to be a teacher before her. When she got her degree, she hit the streets in the middle of a glut of teachers. Sounds like she was one of [many who heeded that call:](https://www.nytimes.com/1973/11/27/archives/in-a-surplus-market-teachers-wait-checklist-of-needs-in-the-new.html) > [@](#): > > In a Surplus Market, Teachers Wait > Nov. 27, 1973 > > […] Miss Isaac is one of many tens of thousands of young people throughout the country—all recent college graduates who have prepared for careers in education — who make up a growing teacher surplus in elementary and secondary schools. […] > > Some candidates have been waiting for appointments for two years or longer. In the face of such a great demand for jobs, the system actually made fewer new teacher appointments and assignments this fall—a total of 5,131—than in any year since 1967, when there was still a shortage of teachers. […] > > The declining birth rate nationally reduced school enrollments and cut into, although it did not eliminate, the need for additional teachers. Also, as school systems began to feel a financial strain, they began to hold the line on new programs and services. Moreover, all this came at a time when more young people, influenced, in part, by improved salaries and other benefits, were attracted to teaching. […] > > “Four or five years ago, the schools needed teachers so badly they would take any warm body—that’s no exaggeration,” said Dr. Hubert Park Beck, the director of placement for the City College School of Education. > > “College graduates would walk in from the streets, take an emergency exam and be put to work immediately,” Dr. Beck said. “Now, it’s very different.” Emphasis added. Yes, there was a well-known and widely publicized teacher shortage in the US in 1967. But clearly, it was one that college students had already begun preparing to take advantage of before your wife started her program. So by the time she was ready to start teaching, the shortage was nowhere near as short any more. > [@AskNott](#): > > I fear another generation of HS grads is going to get suckered like she did. Well, that is kind of the problem with undertaking a four- or five-year degree and training program to try to take advantage of hiring demand that’s occurring right now. A lot can change in a given labor market in four or five years. If I were a current HS grad who really wanted to make the most of current hiring opportunities, I’d apply to be a school bus driver. Lots of districts seem to be offering pay during training and competitive salaries once you start. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-shortage-says-who/971702/4 "2022-09-17T00:39:57Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I’d apply to be a school bus driver. Lots of districts seem to be offering pay during training and competitive salaries once you start. And you’ll end up with a Class B CDL, good for all kinds of other things. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-shortage-says-who/971702/5 "2022-09-17T01:14:18Z")
I am in an M.Ed program, and the problem with finding enough teqchers seems to be all anyone talks about. I know very few school in my district were fully staffed when school started. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-shortage-says-who/971702/6 "2022-09-17T02:41:29Z")
Like most things, it depends on what you’re talking about. Affluent suburban public and private schools don’t have much trouble finding willing applicants. Inner city schools and many less-affluent religious schools can’t even attract unqualified teachers. STEM teachers are in high demand, art and music teachers are being laid off. The OP inadvertently provides a good example. His wife didn’t get “suckered.” She didn’t have any problem finding a job in South Carolina or south Texas because no one wanted to work there. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-shortage-says-who/971702/7 "2022-09-17T03:16:12Z")
I like the Atlantic. Even subscribe to the print version. But for years they have tried to be contrarian, and against the general wisdom, and swimming against the tide, and other such cliches. Sometimes this works, sometimes this doesn’t. They also have an article on their front page that argues that [King Charles Should Get Ready to Abdicate](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/09/king-charles-abdicate-75/671425/) because of his age. That’s simply sadistic rather than contrarian. BTW, here’s the original teacher shortage article. If you read to the end, it’s not as cut-and-dried as it appears. > **[There Is No National Teacher Shortage](https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/08/national-teacher-shortage-turnover-student-enrollment/671214/)** > > The narrative doesn’t match the numbers. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-shortage-says-who/971702/8 "2022-09-17T04:26:53Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > Affluent suburban public and private schools don’t have much trouble finding willing applicants. Around here (San Francisco Bay Area) even the affluent suburban school districts have many vacancies. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-shortage-says-who/971702/9 "2022-09-17T13:57:14Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > BTW, here’s the original teacher shortage article. If you read to the end, it’s not as cut-and-dried as it appears. (This reply is almost entirely speaking to the journalist. Just so no one gets confused.) That’s an understatement. How overconfident a journalist do you have to be to write a piece saying “The data is murky, so obviously all the other journalists ran with a negative story because that’s what they do.”? They could have of course, or maybe they did more data sleuthing than you did, dude! The pieces I’ve seen tend to quote people on the ground saying “I’ve never seen it this bad.” This guy says: - “The experts says we don’t have the data.” Well that’s in part because the data doesn’t exist and in part because the type of expert you consulted only works with data from previous years. - “There has been surplus and glut depending on the location and type of teacher for years.” Sure, and maybe other journalists and their sources took that into consideration. Maybe they didn’t, but you certainly don’t appear to have made much effort looking for evidence contrary to your desired conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-shortage-says-who/971702/10 "2022-09-17T15:23:29Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > Like most things, it depends on what you’re talking about. Affluent suburban public and private schools don’t have much trouble finding willing applicants. The affluent almost-suburban private school I’m working at did. We had two openings for math, and I filled one of them, and we’re hoping that we’ll get someone second semester for the other one. Granted, you do mention that STEM teachers are in higher demand, but if we’re having this trouble, then certainly so are other schools. Now, maybe in a few years, once there’s time for new teachers to work their way through the education pipeline, this will be corrected, or even overcorrected. But “in a few years” isn’t “now”. The pandemic and its aftermath resulted in a sudden very large drop in the number of teachers, and the fix isn’t nearly that quick. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-shortage-says-who/971702/11 "2022-09-17T20:40:57Z")
In some school systems, low pay fails to attract good teachers, and some licensed teachers find better pay outside the schools. I know a teacher of my generation who said the system she was in routinely fired teachers who were nearing the number of years when they’d get tenure. That way, they avoided the expense of pension and other benefits tenured teachers got. Compared to other college-educated jobs, teachers get shorted. ---
**Author:** ![actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/actualliberalnotoneofthose)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2022, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-shortage-says-who/971702/12 "2022-09-18T09:40:52Z")
School bus drivers where I live (Midwest) make less per hour than warehouse and retail workers. Back “home” (East Coast) all school bus drivers are contractors who get paid a rate and either own or lease their buses. And they don’t get much - there was a big debate over raises this year and they got nothing. The commissioners say the average bus contract is more than the average teacher salary, and it is but they have to pay all their bus expenses as contractors.