# Teacher Tells Class: Vote Obama **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 7, 2008, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-tells-class-vote-obama/471732 "2008-11-07T22:29:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-tells-class-vote-obama/471732/101 "2008-11-09T18:18:53Z")
“Libtard”? Oh, I get it, its substitution humor, you take a semi-funny line and render it stoopid, hoping that some sparse element of humor will remain? Rightard to libtard? Not exactly a knee-slapper, now is it? You guys suck at funny. Might be better advised to just leave it alone. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-tells-class-vote-obama/471732/102 "2008-11-09T18:37:16Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > The bolded part is the crux of the whole thing. This makes it your opinion. > > Look, why is it not good enough for some of you libtards to just disagree on issues? Why do you have to do stupid shit like insisting that “the Iraq war is senseless” is a statement of fact? does it bother you that somewhere there is a whole vilage looking for you?do you really think that saying I think 2+2=4 makes it just an opinion? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-tells-class-vote-obama/471732/103 "2008-11-09T18:47:11Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > does it bother you that somewhere there is a whole vilage looking for you?do you really think that saying I think 2+2=4 makes it just an opinion? Two insulting posts in a row. Shows your ability to respond to the substance of what we are discussing. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-tells-class-vote-obama/471732/104 "2008-11-09T19:00:40Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > I am an Iraqi ex-pat whose family was murdered by Saddam Hussein. I support the [Iraq Liberation Act of 1998](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Liberation_Act), passed by unanimous consent in the senate and signed into law by Bill Clinton in 1998, supporting regime change in Iraq. I also support the 2002 [Iraq Resolution](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorization_for_use_of_Military_Force_Against_Iraq) - passed 77-23 in the senate - based on, among other things: > > [ul][li]Iraq’s noncompliance with the conditions of the 1991 cease fire, including interference with weapons inspectors.[/li][li]Iraq’s “brutal repression of its civilian population.”[/li][li]Iraq’s “capability and willingness to use weapons of mass destruction against other nations and its own people”.[/li][li]Iraq’s hostility towards the United States as demonstrated by the alleged 1993 assassination attempt of former President George H. W. Bush, and firing on coalition aircraft enforcing the no-fly zones following the 1991 Gulf War.[/li][li]Citing the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998, the resolution reiterated that it should be the policy of the United States to remove the Saddam Hussein regime and promote a democratic replacement.[/li][/ul] > > To me, this is not a senseless war, and therefore it is not a factually or objectively senseless war. That makes no sense. Some members of my fmily were killed by the Americans and others were tortured. I therefore support the overthrow of the US government by whatever means necessary. Does that make sense to anyone? ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-tells-class-vote-obama/471732/105 "2008-11-09T19:26:05Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Two insulting posts in a row. Shows your ability to respond to the substance of what we are discussing. Or the lack of substance in your posts… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-tells-class-vote-obama/471732/106 "2008-11-09T19:28:05Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > That makes no sense. Some members of my fmily were killed by the Americans and others were tortured. I therefore support the overthrow of the US government by whatever means necessary. Does that make sense to anyone? What if you said "I therefore support the removal of US forces by whatever means necessary. " ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-tells-class-vote-obama/471732/107 "2008-11-09T19:44:54Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > That makes no sense. Some members of my fmily were killed by the Americans and others were tortured. I therefore support the overthrow of the US government by whatever means necessary. Does that make sense to anyone? Why did you feel it was necessary to single out one point as if it represented my whole post? That was awful disingenuous of you. Look, all I’m saying is the unwavering refusal to see anything from any viewpoint other than your own reminds me of when I was a young, thickheaded teenager. As I matured and gained knowledge and life experience I realized that there really are at least two sides to every argument. I mean, do you guys _really_ think we would be over there if it was a FACT that the war is senseless? WE think it’s senseless. I assure you that many, many other people think otherwise - even some Iraqis, even some liberals - and they believe they’re just as right as we believe we are. The worst of it all is that I don’t for one second think that any of you believe the war is “factually senseless.” I believe that you think saying so makes your argument stronger, but in my humble-know-nothing-makes-no-sense opinion it just weakens it. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-tells-class-vote-obama/471732/108 "2008-11-09T19:57:37Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > There’s a huge difference between adults voluntarily present at church and kids involuntarily present at school. In fact, there’s a huge difference between adults and kids, period. How about kids involuntarily present at church? Because that’s how I spent every Sunday morning of my childhood. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-tells-class-vote-obama/471732/109 "2008-11-09T20:02:06Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > How about kids involuntarily present at church? Because that’s how I spent every Sunday morning of my childhood. Not at a government-run church, you weren’t. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-tells-class-vote-obama/471732/110 "2008-11-09T20:03:53Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > Not at a government-run church, you weren’t. You show me where in Bricker’s comment, the one that I quoted, where he said anything about the government. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-tells-class-vote-obama/471732/111 "2008-11-09T20:16:39Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > You show me where in Bricker’s comment, the one that I quoted, where he said anything about the government. Children are forced to attend school by the government. They are forced to attend church by their parents. It’s a different kind of “involuntary.” ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-tells-class-vote-obama/471732/112 "2008-11-09T20:18:57Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > Children are forced to attend school by the government. They are forced to attend church by their parents. It’s a different kind of “involuntary.” It’s involuntary. That’s the word he used. That’s the word I used. You are free to argue with him. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-tells-class-vote-obama/471732/113 "2008-11-09T20:26:40Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > It’s involuntary. That’s the word he used. That’s the word I used. You are free to argue with him. I don’t need to argue with him…I knew what he meant all along. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-tells-class-vote-obama/471732/114 "2008-11-09T21:51:19Z")
> [@Rand Rover](#): > > Two insulting posts in a row. You’re referring to “You guys are all stupid” and “libtards”, right? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-tells-class-vote-obama/471732/115 "2008-11-09T21:57:35Z")
> [@Hostile\_Dialect](#): > > You’re referring to “You guys are all stupid” and “libtards”, right? You’re right, I should have said “two posts that are only insulting.” My insulting posts actually responded to the substance of what we were discussing, unlike theirs. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-tells-class-vote-obama/471732/116 "2008-11-09T23:19:58Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > No, an opinion becomes a fact when the overwhelming evidence and testimony determines that it is. Parse your words carefully enough, and the attack on Pearl Harbor is an opinion. But its not, now is it? > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Luci, what do you mean by “the attack on Pearl Harbor is an opinion”? If you mean that I must think the statement “the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor” is an opinion, you’d be wrong. That is a statement of fact that can be tested to determine whether it is true. It is not similary possible to test “the Iraq war is senseless” to determine if that is also true. > [@Liberal](#): > > Idiot. Have someone explain to you the purpose of a dependent clause. > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > What are you talking about? I know what a dependent clause is, but I don’t see how it’s relevant. Review the above: Luc said that if a person breaks apart words sufficiently — perhaps lifting them from context or using them equivocally — almost anything, like the attack on Pearl Harbor, could be made into an opinion rather than a fact. But, he continued, Pearl Harbor actually is a fact. Your response was to ask him what he meant by stating that Pearl Harbor is an opinion, and you declared that Pearl Harbor can be objectively tested for truth. You responded this way despite the fact that his dependent clause (“Parse your words carefully enough…”) made his statement a conditional one. He said in effect the opposite of how you parsed it, which effectively proved his point. I suppose I shouldn’t have called you an idiot, but I’m just sick and tired of being sick and tired about dealing with stupid people. The presidential race had the effect of gathering so many of them together into tight quarters — such as at Sarah Palin rallies. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-tells-class-vote-obama/471732/117 "2008-11-10T00:17:36Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I was especially struck by the reaction of the teacher when she found that there was an actual McCain supporter in her class. > > “Oh, Jesus!” > > Gosh, one of _them_. I know what she feels though. I’ve heard _about_ John McCain supporters, I know they exist, but to see one in person… amazing. It’s like seeing a panda bear in the wild, it’s just something you don’t see all that often. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-tells-class-vote-obama/471732/118 "2008-11-10T00:41:14Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > It’s involuntary. That’s the word he used. That’s the word I used. You are free to argue with him. Yes, but it’s the fallacy of equivocation: when the same word has two different meanings or contexts: > [@](#): > > Moldy bread crumbs are better than nothing. > > Nothing is better than a thick juicy steak! > > Therefore, moldy bread crumbs are better than a thick juicy steak! In this case, parents exercise choices on their childrens’ behalf, or few six-year-olds would get vaccination shots. So while church attendance may be “involuntary” with respect to the child, it’s voluntary with respect to the child’s guardian. School attendance, on the other hand, is compulsory for the child by reason of the fact that it’s mandatory for the guardians to ensure that their kid goes to school. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-tells-class-vote-obama/471732/119 "2008-11-10T00:46:09Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > It’s like seeing a panda bear in the wild, it’s just something you don’t see all that often. Speak for yourself. - **ChinaGuy** ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-tells-class-vote-obama/471732/120 "2008-11-10T01:28:55Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > School attendance, on the other hand, is compulsory for the child by reason of the fact that it’s mandatory for the guardians to ensure that their kid goes to school. The word doesn’t have two different meanings. The guardian doesn’t have to send the child to school. Many guardians don’t. Most choose to send their kids to school, but not all. And either way, the kids have no options. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-tells-class-vote-obama/471732.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teacher-tells-class-vote-obama/471732.md?page=7)