# Teachers have to pay to take vacation day? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 15, 2018, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-have-to-pay-to-take-vacation-day/814244 "2018-05-15T21:27:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2018, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-have-to-pay-to-take-vacation-day/814244/41 "2018-05-17T22:58:50Z")
For what it’s worth, in Texas we get 5 days a year required by the state and usually some number from the district–we get 5 now, but in 2008 they cut us down to three for some years. We can take them any contract day and we don’t have to pay a sub if one is required. Things like Christmas break don’t count: we have 187ish contract days a year: kids are in the building for like 178 of those and the others are staff development or teacher work days. Theoretically, you only get 3 days for personal business and the others are for sick leave but no one checks. However, if you’re gonna miss more than a week or so, you need to take a leave of absence, which require documentation. Days accumulate indefinitely. Here’s the real kicker, though: there’s no maternity coverage, per se, and even short term disability costs the earth and they cover none of it. So everyone wants to have a stock of days, and if you want to have a baby, you need even more. If you run out of days, it’s brutal. We get paid for 10 months of work but our paychecks come all 12 months. This means that if you go into unpaid leave, each day costs you 1/187 of your salary, not the 1/255 of your salary that a 12-month job typically deducts. So if you get cancer or have a baby and you don’t have any days, then each day you miss they effectively takes more than a day’s salary out of your check. If you have a whole month of unpaid leave, you not only don’t get a paycheck that month, but the next month’s will also be meaningfully short even if you work every day (plus the deductions for catching up on benefits). When I was pregnant, everyone assumed I got paid maternity leave–but we got FMLA and that was it. I had days, but I didn’t have enough days to have two, and that was certainly a meaningful part of the reason we couldn’t afford to have two. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2018, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-have-to-pay-to-take-vacation-day/814244/42 "2018-05-18T00:02:24Z")
Wow. Just wow. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2018, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-have-to-pay-to-take-vacation-day/814244/43 "2018-05-18T00:19:07Z")
> [@Alley\_Dweller](#): > > Let’s say that a school district does a good job of adding minorities to the list of eligible subs. Assume that it is 50% minority and 50% white, which approximates the population of the school district accurately. > > But, when a sub is needed, suppose the teachers left to their own devices call white subs 75% of the time and minority subs 25% of the time. Just having minorities on the list of eligible subs is not enough if there is no method to ensure that they are equitably called for service. I don’t know how to answer “what ifs” that don’t happen. In the only situation I’m aware of, my wife is a minority, many of the teachers at her school are minorities, and so are the subs. The sub my wife calls on most often is a minority. The situation you describe simply isn’t an issue. I can’t tell you what would happen if it were were an issue. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2018, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-have-to-pay-to-take-vacation-day/814244/44 "2018-05-18T00:20:09Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > We get paid for 10 months of work but our paychecks come all 12 months. . :dubious: Teachers salaries are almost always listed as annually. Like $65000 per year. Do you mean that they say $65000 per year but you only get 10/12ths of that?😕:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Sensitive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Darth\_Sensitive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Sensitive)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2018, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-have-to-pay-to-take-vacation-day/814244/45 "2018-05-18T00:37:19Z")
If we worked June and July, the fair wage would be 78K ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2018, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-have-to-pay-to-take-vacation-day/814244/46 "2018-05-18T02:14:53Z")
> [@Darth\_Sensitive](#): > > If we worked June and July, the fair wage would be 78K That has nothing at all to do with what I posted. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2018, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-have-to-pay-to-take-vacation-day/814244/47 "2018-05-18T02:15:14Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > :dubious: Teachers salaries are almost always listed as annually. Like $65000 per year. Do you mean that they say $65000 per year but you only get 10/12ths of that?😕:dubious: Do you understand that “salary” means “what you get paid” and is not tied to how long it takes you to earn that? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2018, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-have-to-pay-to-take-vacation-day/814244/48 "2018-05-18T02:50:17Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Do you understand that “salary” means “what you get paid” and is not tied to how long it takes you to earn that? So? A annual salary means how much you get paid per annum, ie a year. Teachers generally (at least here in CA) get a annual salary. They get paid so much per year, a work year being ten months or so. If they work summer school, they get paid extra. If a teacher gets a annual salary of $60000, they dont pay her only $50000, being as she works only ten months. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2018, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-have-to-pay-to-take-vacation-day/814244/49 "2018-05-18T03:30:50Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > If a teacher gets a annual salary of $60000, they dont pay her only $50000, being as she works only ten months. Right, because, _one more time_, a salary is based on a particular job, with no consideration to the amount of time required to do it. If they say they will pay you $60K a year, that is what you get, even if there are ten weeks that you are not involved doing that particular job. Yet, as I noted in a previous post, teachers do a fair amount of work at home. My mother once calculated how much actual time her job took up and she was barely getting minimum wage if one were to figure it by the hour – even over ten months. That was earlier in her career, though. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2018, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-have-to-pay-to-take-vacation-day/814244/50 "2018-05-18T03:42:02Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > :dubious: Teachers salaries are almost always listed as annually. Like $65000 per year. Do you mean that they say $65000 per year but you only get 10/12ths of that?😕:dubious: No, what she means is that the annual salary is spread out over 12 months rather than the 10 that teachers work. To make the numbers a little easier ( and they are going to be approximate) , lets say a teacher is paid weekly and earns $52K a year. She gets 52 paychecks of $1000 each, rather than 44 paychecks at about $1182 each. She works 187 days per year, so if she takes a day of unpaid leave approximately $278 is deducted from her pay that week rather than the $200 that someone who earns $52K and works 12 months a year would lose by taking a day of unpaid leave. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2018, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-have-to-pay-to-take-vacation-day/814244/51 "2018-05-18T07:39:25Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Right, because, _one more time_, a salary is based on a particular job, with no consideration to the amount of time required to do it. If they say they will pay you $60K a year, that is what you get, even if there are ten weeks that you are not involved doing that particular job. If you are agreeing with me, why are your posts hostile and argumentative, as if you dont understand how annual pay works? ---
**Author:** ![jjakucyk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3d9bf3/32.png) [@jjakucyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjakucyk)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2018, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-have-to-pay-to-take-vacation-day/814244/52 "2018-05-18T12:50:27Z")
I never understood why people get so riled up about teachers’ salaries and summer break, which isn’t much of a break at all. That’s when lesson plans, conferences, continuing education, curriculum meetings, and other stuff like that is done. Plus it’s some compensation for all the homework/test grading and other take-home activities that are necessary throughout the school year. Besides, if teachers getting paid for “not working all summer” is so offensive, what about all the other salaried employees who get paid for not working all weekend? J’accuse! ---
**Author:** ![CelticKnot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/celticknot/32/3392_2.png) [@CelticKnot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CelticKnot)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-have-to-pay-to-take-vacation-day/814244/53 "2018-05-19T00:16:06Z")
> [@Alley\_Dweller](#): > > Let’s say that a school district does a good job of adding minorities to the list of eligible subs. Assume that it is 50% minority and 50% white, which approximates the population of the school district accurately. > > But, when a sub is needed, suppose the teachers left to their own devices call white subs 75% of the time and minority subs 25% of the time. Just having minorities on the list of eligible subs is not enough if there is no method to ensure that they are equitably called for service. I do not mean to be rude, but I think you have a misconception. I have never taught in any district that had a surplus of qualified substitutes. There have been many days in which schools were redistributing students, teachers, or \_\_\_\_\_(parapros, aides, whatever you call them) to cover all classes because no subs were available. As long as you didn’t commit any truly heinous crimes, if you got hired in the first place, you got called eventually. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-have-to-pay-to-take-vacation-day/814244/54 "2018-05-19T01:30:18Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Were you full time? where were you teaching? Yes. In NC, in 2013, the base salary for a teacher with 5 years experience was $31,220.00. After my second daughter was born, my wife took a couple years off (this wasn’t indulgent–full time childcare for two children would be very close to her possible income), and a family of four on this income qualified for Medicaid. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-have-to-pay-to-take-vacation-day/814244/55 "2018-05-19T02:12:14Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > :smack: I’m a little sleepy today and misphrased this bit. No, Christmas isn’t an annual leave day; it’s a holiday, as is the 24th and 26th. But students are on winter break this coming year from December 20-January 2. Here’s how that looks from a teacher time off perspective: > > December 20-21: Annual Leave days. Schools are closed, and these days are deducted from your supply of annual leave days. > December 24-26: Holidays. Schools closed, no deductions necessary. > December 27-28: Annual Leave days. > December 31-January 1: Holidays. > January 2: Optional teacher workday. You can show up for work, or take an annual leave day, or a personal leave day. (Annual leave accumulates year to year, and can be cashed out at retirement; personal leave caps at 5 days but can be taken on a day students are around.) > > I hope that clarifies things. It does, although I can’t help but wonder why they simply didn’t make Dec 20-Jan 1 holidays and give you four fewer days of annual leave. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-have-to-pay-to-take-vacation-day/814244/56 "2018-05-19T02:12:56Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > It does, although I can’t help but wonder why they simply didn’t make Dec 20-Jan 1 holidays and give you four fewer days of annual leave. Yeah, I’m not real clear on that either. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-have-to-pay-to-take-vacation-day/814244/57 "2018-05-19T06:15:28Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Yes. In NC, in 2013, the base salary for a teacher with 5 years experience was $31,220.00. After my second daughter was born, my wife took a couple years off (this wasn’t indulgent–full time childcare for two children would be very close to her possible income), and a family of four on this income qualified for Medicaid. Now the average is $51000. Back five years ago it was $45,737. [http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/education/article203186954.html](http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/education/article203186954.html) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-have-to-pay-to-take-vacation-day/814244/58 "2018-05-19T12:06:10Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Now the average is $51000. Back five years ago it was $45,737. > > [http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/education/article203186954.html](http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/education/article203186954.html) I am well, well aware of how this average was derived, having read multiple articles on it. Suffice it to say it’s a mean, not a median, and that many, many educators were in a similar situation to mine a few years back. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-have-to-pay-to-take-vacation-day/814244/59 "2018-05-19T14:01:55Z")
I’d also be wary of any number on the average income of “educators”. Does that category include, for instance, college? How about college coaches? In many states, the college football coach is the best-paid public employee in the state. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-have-to-pay-to-take-vacation-day/814244/60 "2018-05-19T16:02:58Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I am well, well aware of how this average was derived, having read multiple articles on it. Suffice it to say it’s a mean, not a median, and that many, many educators were in a similar situation to mine a few years back. Yes, my point was that the average was quite low and now it’s a little better. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-have-to-pay-to-take-vacation-day/814244.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-have-to-pay-to-take-vacation-day/814244.md?page=4)