# Teachers need to start packing heat says lawmaker - But what weapon would be best? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 5, 2006, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-need-to-start-packing-heat-says-lawmaker-but-what-weapon-would-be-best/375443 "2006-10-05T23:15:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-need-to-start-packing-heat-says-lawmaker-but-what-weapon-would-be-best/375443/21 "2006-10-06T14:20:12Z")
1. Who’s going to pay for it all? 2. One does not need to be a pacifist or vehemently opposed to violence to not want to carry a gun. A gun always ups the ante, IMO. 3. What happens when the teacher turns out to be the kid-killing psycho? ---
**Author:** ![rbroome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-need-to-start-packing-heat-says-lawmaker-but-what-weapon-would-be-best/375443/22 "2006-10-06T14:25:23Z")
[QUOTE=astro] [Wis. lawmaker wants teachers to carry guns](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15142930/) Hmm… considered the special needs of a teacher, what weapon would be most appropriate for maintaining order, and taking down intruders? Maximum spread? Stopping power? What are the decisive issues for today’s educator? [/QUOTE] Obviously, not everyone is taking this idea seriously :). I certainly am not. I don’t even agree with armed police in our schools. I am in the minority on that issue. However, taking this idea in the spirit in which the originator made it, my question is what do we do about the teachers that become dangerous? After all, they are human and some percentage of teachers will become a threat. Obviously, we have to arm the students as well-balance of power and all that. We could even include it in our civics classes as a lesson in American governance. So after we have settled on the proper weapon for the teachers (and personally I am against flamethrowers-too much air pollution), the next question is what is the proper weapon to arm the students? Shouldn’t their physical size be a factor-smaller weapons for the lower grades and all that? We would have to redesign the playgrounds since schoolyard spats will reach a whole new level, but that is doable. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-need-to-start-packing-heat-says-lawmaker-but-what-weapon-would-be-best/375443/23 "2006-10-06T14:28:12Z")
[QUOTE=Hirundo82] No, teachers wouldn’t be openly carrying weapons around 2900 convicted felons daily. The guns would be concealed. If you conceal properly, nobody knows you are carrying. And it is not that hard. I have carried around many police officers, and they have never suspected that I was carrying a bigger handgun than they were (I have asked a couple that I knew). Plus the teachers should have to have training in weapon retention before carrying in school. I’m sure your husband has had that too, but a school is a much lower risk environment than a prison. [/QUOTE] Concealing the weapon wouldn’t matter in a hostage situation. If the criminal knew there was a potential for a concealed weapon, they’d simply search the person/people they were holding. Simply carrying a weapon is different from\* having the will to use it\*. People may think they have the determination necessary to look into the eyes of another human being and pull the trigger, but they sometimes don’t, and worse, they come to this revelation in the worst possible circumstances. All of the officers in the prison in which my husband works are trained in a form of martial arts for self-protection. (I can’t remember the name. I want to say “akita”, but that’s a dog breed.) Hubby’s an executive, so he only takes one refresher a year-- the guards and other staff take it every six months, IIRC. All of that training, however, hasn’t been enough to stop the “freeze.” Many people sort of . . . well, maybe Richard Adams put it best. . . . they go “tharn” in a dangerous situation. And you never know if you’re that kind of person until the moment of truth. Having the potential for a teacher to be packing heat would result in more dead teachers. Any criminal who’s put thought into their massacre would realize that the best course of action would be to pop the teacher first, just to be on the safe side, then search their body for another weapon. ---
**Author:** ![Martiju](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e8c25b/32.png) [@Martiju](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martiju)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-need-to-start-packing-heat-says-lawmaker-but-what-weapon-would-be-best/375443/24 "2006-10-06T14:34:47Z")
[QUOTE=rbroome] Obviously, not everyone is taking this idea seriously :). I certainly am not. I don’t even agree with armed police in our schools. I am in the minority on that issue. [/QUOTE] You are!? :eek: Jeez. looks around, phew…I’m in England! ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-need-to-start-packing-heat-says-lawmaker-but-what-weapon-would-be-best/375443/25 "2006-10-06T15:34:34Z")
Nah…they need M1 Abrams Tanks. That’ll sort out the faculty parking lot. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-need-to-start-packing-heat-says-lawmaker-but-what-weapon-would-be-best/375443/26 "2006-10-06T16:25:55Z")
Teachers. With guns. Wow is THAT a bad idea. Now, I WOULD be in favor of arming them with tazers, and putting armed police in the schools. It sucks that it has to be this way, but it does. I’m not happy about having my shoes x-rayed in the airport everytime I fly, but come si come ca. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-need-to-start-packing-heat-says-lawmaker-but-what-weapon-would-be-best/375443/27 "2006-10-06T16:39:20Z")
This same point is being discussed in another thread, and someone brought up the concept of arming everyone, students and teachers. That’s worth considering, as the badass kids will all have been shot within the first month by the other kids and the campus will be much more peaceful. ---
**Author:** ![Who\_me\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/958977/32.png) [@Who\_me\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Who_me_1)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-need-to-start-packing-heat-says-lawmaker-but-what-weapon-would-be-best/375443/28 "2006-10-06T16:58:16Z")
[QUOTE=Count Blucher] Nah…they need M1 Abrams Tanks. That’ll sort out the faculty parking lot. [/QUOTE] And have the advantage of a built in pointer for lessons on the chalkboard. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-need-to-start-packing-heat-says-lawmaker-but-what-weapon-would-be-best/375443/29 "2006-10-06T18:22:21Z")
Counter-insurgency weaponry is obviously best here, and I’d highly recommend a [Stryker “streetsweeper” automatic shotgun](http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/SH09-E.HTM) with a 12-round non-detachable magazine. You can send shot flying through an entire classroom in only a matter of seconds with this baby, and it’ll take down a grizzly, let alone your average ninth-grader hopped up on goofballs and airplane glue. Of course, it’s a lot slower to reload than standard box-type magazines, so I’d also recommend keeping a half-dozen anti-personnel grenades in easy reach. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-need-to-start-packing-heat-says-lawmaker-but-what-weapon-would-be-best/375443/30 "2006-10-06T18:34:23Z")
Perhaps the Wisconsin legislator is afraid [cows with guns](http://www.3dweb.no/galleri/stuestolbm/bilder/anim1.swf). That Holstein crowd can get pretty rough in the Dairyland State. Perhaps the milk in schools federal program is seen by him as undermining the authority of teachers. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-need-to-start-packing-heat-says-lawmaker-but-what-weapon-would-be-best/375443/31 "2006-10-06T18:37:58Z")
[QUOTE=Anaamika] 3. What happens when the teacher turns out to be the kid-killing psycho? [/QUOTE] Oh, well, then, he coaches the football team. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-need-to-start-packing-heat-says-lawmaker-but-what-weapon-would-be-best/375443/32 "2006-10-06T18:44:43Z")
[teacher with gun]Little Johnny, I told you not to chew gum. Now this here is a 357 magnum, blow your head clean off. In that little lunch room episode yesterday did I fire off five shots or six? I don’t remember. So, Johnny, do you feel lucky? Huh? Do you feel lucky punk?[/twg] [QUOTE=Caridwen] Cattle prods. [/QUOTE] I have to go with cattle prods too. I have a cattle prod in my office. It does wonders for keeping the junior engineers in line. Actually I use it for electrical testing and I don’t keep batteries in it just in case someone would get the bright idea to use it on a human. I did however make up a sticker that says “engineer motivator” and stuck it on the handle. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2006, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-need-to-start-packing-heat-says-lawmaker-but-what-weapon-would-be-best/375443/33 "2006-10-07T05:38:32Z")
Well if they don’t give the school enough money for books or chalk, do you really think the state will buy them ammo? ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2006, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-need-to-start-packing-heat-says-lawmaker-but-what-weapon-would-be-best/375443/34 "2006-10-07T06:00:01Z")
Nuke schools from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure. I can’t believe I’m the first one to say that ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2006, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-need-to-start-packing-heat-says-lawmaker-but-what-weapon-would-be-best/375443/35 "2006-10-07T06:41:00Z")
A 12 pound muzzle-loading cannon, double filled with canister shot on top of grape shot. While there will be a range penalty for doubling the shot, at the ranges we’re talking about, it will be all about maximum short range firepower. Also will come in handy in Music class for studying the 1812 Overture. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2006, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-need-to-start-packing-heat-says-lawmaker-but-what-weapon-would-be-best/375443/36 "2006-10-07T06:59:48Z")
As a teacher in England, we’re not allowed guns. Nor do the beat police carry them. We haven’t had a school shooting for about a decade. Now I’ve got that out the way, let me enter into the spirit of the thing: - which gun is the easiest to reload? (I don’t want to face trouble empty) - we’ve all seen ‘Dirty Harry’, so is the Magnum 45 still the most powerful handgun in the World? (we’re talking impressing both the kids and fellow staff members) - how about bullet-proof vests? (infant school teachers may lack the required co-ordination) - what do you cover your face with? (every psycho knows about bullet-proof vests) ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2006, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-need-to-start-packing-heat-says-lawmaker-but-what-weapon-would-be-best/375443/37 "2006-10-07T14:03:36Z")
[QUOTE=glee] - how about bullet-proof vests? (infant school teachers may lack the required co-ordination) [/QUOTE] A bullet-proof vest is still your best bet. Unless your psycho is a really good shot (and most people aren’t), they’ll usually aim for the largest target, which would be your torso. Heads are harder to hit, especially if they’re moviing. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2006, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-need-to-start-packing-heat-says-lawmaker-but-what-weapon-would-be-best/375443/38 "2006-10-07T14:12:14Z")
[QUOTE=Lissa] A bullet-proof vest is still your best bet. Unless your psycho is a really good shot (and most people aren’t), they’ll usually aim for the largest target, which would be your torso. Heads are harder to hit, especially if they’re moviing. [/QUOTE] Even professionals (soldiers, police officers, etc.) tend to be trained to shoot for the center of mass, ie: the spot covered most effectively by a bullet proof vest. If you miss the solar plexus by six inches to a foot, you likely still hit the person. If you miss the head by six inches to a foot, you likely put a whole in the wall behind them. The thing to remember is, vests apparantly become rapidly less bullet proof the more times you shoot them. Also, they’re much less effective against rifle rounds unless you have a really good vest. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2006, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-need-to-start-packing-heat-says-lawmaker-but-what-weapon-would-be-best/375443/39 "2006-10-07T17:14:28Z")
This sort of discussion always strikes me as being an attempt to avoid talking about the real issue, which is; why does the United States have such a high homicide rate, especially using firearms, as compared to other First World nations? Perhaps if you want to prevent shootings, it would be best to find out why so many people are shooting each other, and address those root causes. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2006, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-need-to-start-packing-heat-says-lawmaker-but-what-weapon-would-be-best/375443/40 "2006-10-07T20:23:34Z")
We just learned that [a group of students in Green Bay](http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061005/GPG0101/610050564/1206/GPGnews) were allegedly planning some kind of assault, so teachers must be prepared for human wave attacks that will happen sooner or later. A very large student to teacher ratio simply demands a high rate of fire and a large ammunition capacity. And in a school where firefights could breakout anywhere, portability is a must. So I suggest the [M249 Squad Automatic Weapon](http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m249.htm), the SAW. Up to 1,000 rpm and 200 round box fed ammunition belts. Yup, I see the SAW as the imdispensible teacher’s aid for the 21st century. I plan to market a laser sight that can double as a classroom pointer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-need-to-start-packing-heat-says-lawmaker-but-what-weapon-would-be-best/375443.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-need-to-start-packing-heat-says-lawmaker-but-what-weapon-would-be-best/375443.md?page=3)